<p>I also choke just a little to hear anyone believe most kids at NYU are not wealthy. That may be one student’s social circle, but hardly the norm at NYU where most are paying the vast majority of $55K for a non top school. There is tremendous wealth there and as a counselor at a wealthy private high school, I watched the wealthy, unmotivated get in for decades.</p>
<p>Jym, M&S, and others who think folks are being to harsh with julian, please understand that we KNOW that NYU is a big “dream school” and that’s a very powerful thing to overcome. There is one short April thread on the NYU forum, with julian and other 0 EFC kids kids discussing the debt, and this is the final post (by stohare2010):</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>No one responded to that in any way, shape, or form! (That poster has since been scrambling for loans/outside scholarships too.) Some of these kids obviously have no rational adult to put the brakes on before they bury themselves in debt and sometimes it’s pretty clear that the FA forum here is the first voice of reason they’re getting in this whole confusing process. Luckily, that’s not the case for your kids who have your experience, guidance, and financial support!</p>
<p>Julian was accepted to NYU, Pratt, and UT…idk if he’s a NY resident or a TX native or if there were other schools as well. While Pratt’s FA is not the greatest either, they are still accepting students and may have given him a larger package. There are other choices that would make more sense for this kid’s future, at least for the first few years, if he will take a bit more time to explore them. I encouraged that in my very first post - I did not mention SUNY as Purchase is the only school with Film and they’re closed for freshman admissions - but julian did not want to hear anything else. I think his responses are what prompted other posters to “up the ante” a bit in an effort to get through to him.</p>
<p>If julian will consider a gap year, or perhaps a spring admission, Purchase would be a great alternative, especially for a NY resident. With a 0 EFC, his $5500 Pell, $5000 TAP, and $5500 Stafford would nearly cover the entire cost. Even if he’s an OOS kid, SUNY rates would save him at least 50% of the loans he’s currently in need of.</p>
<p>sk8rmom,</p>
<p>What you said above is perfectly fine. And more importantly, it is how you said it. Your post gives suggestions, alternatives and options, presented in a reasonable manner. It isn’t said in an abrasive manner. It invites discussion, it doesn’t shut it down. Had many of the posts here been presented in this manner, rather than telling the OP he/she is a n</p>
<p>Jym, unfortunately, I’m the one who told him he’s being naive (post 16)…but apologized if it hurt his feelings. I think M2’s right, julian is either busy or won’t respond because he’s not getting what he was looking for. Hopefully he’s thinking very carefully or talking to his potential benefactors, who may say much the same thing but in a gentler way!</p>
<p>We really can’t say why the OP has chosen to leave the thread. IMO, there were a volley of unnecessarily harsh posts, some replete with quotes from other strongly-worded posts, presented in italics and bold. I think the OP gets it. He/she is hurting that he/she can’t afford to go to his/her dream school, and was grasping at any possibilities to try to find funding. Why beat this kid up when he/she is down?</p>
<p>sk8rmom
You are absolutely right.
But nowhere in these posts did I or some other more carefully worded posters ever encouraged OP to get into debt. But as jym626 says, some posters here like to harshfully push their point and brutally bash a student for their “misguidedness”. Then they go on to try to discredit everything else another poster may say with statements that inflame and have no basis but are presented as fact. Experts about everything and really have no direct experience withe the school itself. Makes them even less credible.</p>
<p>Some of these kids get what we say, other won’t. Can’t make them do anything.</p>
<p>What does “direct experience with the school itself” have to do with this?</p>
<p>I do have close relatives that have gone to NYU, and a close friend’s child is there now, but I don’t have children there. So, does that disqualify me from advising the student that $100+k in debt is too much? Does it disqualify me from saying that it’s unlikely that the student’s friends aren’t likely going to co-sign and therefore the student needs to consider other schools - such as a SUNY/CUNY with a film program? Does it disqualify me from saying that a new graduate with a film degree will not likely be earning enough to pay back big loans? As a native Southern Californian, I know enough people in the film industry (my brother has an Emmy), to know how hard that industry is. </p>
<p>It’s irrelevant whether a person has “direct experience” with the school in this case. The discussion wasn’t about the quality of one of its program or something that only those who have intimate knowledge of the campus would know about. Frankly, the particular school is irrelevant in this case. The student could have been wanting to study film at USC, LMU, or Chapman and if the money issue were the same, the concerns would have been same.</p>
<p>m2ck, you are not getting it. </p>
<p>You refuse to look at the essence of some of your posts. You are not qualified to tell everyone what NYU does with their money and students. </p>
<p>
My point exactly. You not only gave advice which would be fine on its own but you went ahead and really trashed the school and some of the students and how they paid for their tuition.</p>
<p>I don’t think I “really trashed the school” or its students. </p>
<p>Trashing the school would imply that I said that the school is no good, their degrees are worthless, the profs are lousy, etc. </p>
<p>And, certainly discussing how tuition might get paid is certainly NOT trashing students. Your logic is flawed.</p>
<p>*You are not qualified to tell everyone what NYU does with their money and students. *</p>
<p>And, you’re not qualified to determine what I’m qualified to say.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Oh I forgot you are the expert.</p>
<p>I don’t think we should be sniping at each other like this. We all want the same thing, right? The condemnation and humiliation of all of NYU’s students, staff, and alumni and, eventually, its complete loss of any and all accreditation and licenses to operate.</p>
<p>Totally Agreed</p>
<p>Welcome back, OP!</p>
<p>Before someone scares you away again (hopefully not), can you clarify-- are you Julia (f) or Julian (m)? Just wondering who we are speaking to. Thanks!</p>
<p>Did you come up with a plan?</p>
<p>As stated before, there are no magical solutions to the OP’s situation and although NYU has been faulted for its financial aid, I’m sure there are many other schools that don’t meet 100% of need sending out similarly unworkable packages - we simply hear about NYU a little more because the ‘bright lights big city’ appeal of NYC is so alluring to so many teenagers.</p>
<p>I happened to be reading over some information from my daughter’s Soc.101 class the other day regarding bonded labor (modern slavery) - it struck me how similar the situation could be for the college grad with low paying job prospects and way too much debt. The increasing fines/interest on student debt that can increase rather than decrease to the point where payoff is a mathematical impossibility strongly resemble the endentured servitude of third world citizens - the only substantial difference being that you are free to refuse unreasonable student debt. Unappealing as it may be, my advice is to save yourself from years of working multiple jobs, keeping horrible hours and stressing your way into added health concerns just to pay an unreasonable debt. Find an affordable solution that allows you the extra money to produce your own short films - ultimately your film work is what will get you work in your field. If you aspire to a career of waitressing/bartending at all hours as your second (pays the bills) job, feel free to continue on your path to self enslavement - but do so with full knowledge that you were warned. Finding a more affordable school is not the end of your dream - it is the best insurance you can have against your dream ending before it’s begun.</p>
<p>I hope the student looks into a back up plan…such as…</p>
<p>SUNY Purchase, for one. See <a href=“Search results for • Purchase College”>Search results for • Purchase College;
<p>Also, Brooklyn College:
[Film</a> Department - Home](<a href=“http://www.brooklyn.cuny.edu/pub/departments/film/]Film”>Brookyn College)</p>
<p>Referring back to sk8termom’s post, two things really stood out to me about that quote:</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>It’s kind of sad that no one addressed this post because there’s just so much:</p>
<ol>
<li><p>“IF you have a plan to repay all the debt.” How can one make plans before one has even had a job or even really surveys the jobs available out there? Even the luckiest undergraduates generally don’t make salaries higher than $60,000 their first year out - and that’s really lucky. You can’t even afford to pay off a $120,000 loan with $60,000, even with 20 years to do so. What plan is there even to pay that off, besides “I’m going to make the minimum monthly payment every month”?</p></li>
<li><p>This notion that a degree from a top school automatically leads to a “great” job - by which I think she means not just an enjoyable one in your field but a well-paying one as well. This idea that just earning an NYU degree will magically open all these jobs…despite all the news stories that have been published recently by struggling recent graduates who have the same degrees and debt and have been unable to find jobs that pay more than about $40K-50K per year (which is pretty good, for a new grad), sometimes less. It’s not that they’re not reading them, it’s that they think, “It won’t happen to me. They were stupid; I’m intelligent and a go-getter.” Related to that, the idea that you need a degree from a top school to get into a top graduate school, when really graduate admissions committees care less about your undergraduate school than what you did there.</p></li>
<li><p>“There are people who have this much debt, and they make it.” Without any hardcore stories of it actually happening, and without any indication what the struggles are like. By “make it” do we mean living comfortably or do we mean living at home with parents and struggling to pay the payments? What does that mean? And stats show that the vast majority of students borrow far less.</p></li>
</ol>
<p>^^^</p>
<p>Maybe no one addressed that post because (I think) it’s from the NYU forum where mostly only students post. So…perhaps no one with any real finance experience??</p>
<p>I agree that there’s no way these students can really “have a plan” to pay these mega debts off unless they’ve got family who’ve committed to help or a guaranteed high paying job at graduation. </p>
<p>I just wish these kids would approach family/friends that they know who are earning in the $50k-70k range and ask them…could you afford to pay for all that you’re currently paying for (rent, utilities, food, clothing, transportation, insurance, cell phones, cable, internet, state, fed, and local taxes and have a little emergency savings) while also paying the equivalent of 3-5 extra car payments per month for 10-20 years? I doubt many would tell them that they could do that.</p>
<p>I believe it is a she, Julia Ng. </p>
<p>To the OP, these posters are not doing it to be mean, they are doing it to help you. Even if it sounds harsh, this is reality. These posters know what they are talking about. I also want to strongly suggest you consider other options instead of NYU.</p>
<p>Debt is a scary thing, and you just haven’t experienced it yet on a first-hand basis. Please take these posts into consideration.</p>
<p>To Juliang –></p>
<p>You may think that we are trying to kill your dreams… but the opposite is true. We are trying to help you meet your long term goal of a career in the film industry. </p>
<p>You will destroy that goal if you take on more than a very moderate amount of debt for college. You will very likely not be able to complete the NYU degree because your ability to raise funds to fill the gap as the years go by, and if you do complete the degree you will find yourself in the position of needing steady, high paying work to service your debt. The problem is that in the film industry, much of the work is project based and to break in and get ahead you will need the flexibility to be able to take short-term jobs, many of which may be for fairly low pay. Also, jobs in the film industry are often contract-based, meaning that they don’t come with benefits such as health care plans-- so you will also need to be prepared to pay for expenses like health insurance premiums out of pocket. </p>
<p>So taking on debt is handicapping yourself for the future.</p>
<p>I’d also add that an MFA from Tisch trumps a BFA, and you are looking for work in a highly competitive industry – so after you’ve spent all your money on your undergrad degree, you may find that you are competing for jobs against students who hold a masters from the same university. </p>
<p>If you want to succeed in your chosen field, then it is really important for you to conserve resources. It might be different for engineers and I-bankers – but if you take on too much debt, then you will spend the most productive years of your life working for the bank and not for yourself.</p>
<p>Here’s a suggestion: pretend that you are looking for your post graduate job, right now. Go online to various job sites and see what is available, and what the terms of employment are. Pay attention to the type of experience the prospective employers are looking for. Imagine you have $100,000 of student loan debt and will need to make monthly payments of $1100 to carry that debt. You also need to pay for your housing, food, insurance – and if you are living outside of NYC, you need a car. Look at post #97 – what is your plan for how you are going to work to support yourself, pay off your debt, and also make headway in your chosen career?</p>