<p>Sometimes it’s a good thing that posts on the internet live on - hopefully Julian will come back in a few months and let all of us boring, unhelpful old folks know how it’s turned out.</p>
<p>Powerball ticket anyone?</p>
<p>milkandsugar, </p>
<p>I’ve had work-study converted to loans (not at NYU) but I don’t think they’ll do it if you’re already at your loan max. Call the financial aid office.</p>
<p>There are some topics/threads that seem to pull in posters who tend to be more confrontational or “know-it-all” in their style. This is one of them. Then the OP gets defensive and off to the races we go. It can be entertaining when it happens amongst the parents, but when they get too harsh with the well-meaning students, I think it is unnecessary (going after ■■■■■■ is ok in my book, but this OP isn’t a ■■■■■).</p>
<p>So, hopefully the OP will find practical ways of funding his NYU education or will consider other options. NYC does leave some interesting options open for raising funds. I don’t recommend many/most of them</p>
<p>2college3wego,
Do you mean “loan max” as in the federal loans for each year?</p>
<p>^ I think this would apply to any type of loan. Basically, the school can’t certify loans in excess of need (COA-FA). Since ws is considered FA, eliminating it would increase the unmet need/loan eligibility. Hopefully the OP eliminated ws in favor of finding a higher paying off-campus job (and hopefully he’ll be able to) as this is a kid that should do everything possible to reduce, not increase, his loans!</p>
<p>Good luck with everything, Julian! You do have our best wishes, even though you’re determined to take a hard road…please let us know how you’re doing occassionally (we’ll try to root for you and save the “I told you so” for our own kids, lol! Btw, I’d guess that many posters are not bored, intelligent housewives…maybe multi-degreed professionals who have experienced several careers and accumulated a lot of life experience though!</p>
<p>Yes, I often find it amusing that the kids think the forum is infiltrated with “bored, intelligent housewives.” Too funny. </p>
<p>I just hope the OP realizes that the degree one carts around through life is from the “last college” and not the first college. It would be a shame to see a young person driven to go to a college they can’t afford only to have to drop out and finish at a less prestigious school instead of the opposite…start at a less prestigious and get the degree from the better known college. This situation has all the markers of this type of story and kids often have short sight lines.</p>
<p>While I hope that the OP can find a reasonable way to afford his dream school without being totally mired in debt, I do think it is a bad idea to convince oneself or others that any one school is “in their bones” (for lack of a better expression). Understand that there are dream schools, but there are lots of schools that can be very good fits for any student, and convincing oneself that only one school is the place for them is a dangerous path to travel.</p>
<p>^So very true…I often want to remind kids that their true dream is to become an actor/doctor/whatever and that’s what they should focus on. I hate to read anything that starts “XXX is my dream school” these days. So many kids have come back to post on these forums after attending a year or two at their lower-choice, but affordable, schools and have said they love it there and wouldn’t transfer now if given the choice. Most HS kids have such narrow experience that they don’t recognize that many schools can be a great fit for them, that is, if they go in a positive attitude!</p>
<p>So I guess Julian’s family friends wouldn’t co-sign his loans…
Well, they’re probably just boring, unhelpful old folks too…</p>
<p>(My 13 year-old daughter is of the opinion that this whole thread is a ■■■■■ – that no one could be this short-sighted.)</p>
<p>I don’t consider it short sighted in the sense that adults use the word short sighted…it’s more of a youthful inability to really see into the future and the ramifications that immediate decisions can have on the future. This OP could pull out all the cards to fund two years at NYU and spend the first two years somewhere else less expensive but chooses not to look at the long term and focus instead of pulling out all the cards for next year. Everyone can talk until they are blue in the face and nothing will probably change this decision at this point except the college. There are still many hurdles like pulling the money together, transportation, books, etc. etc. The story is not written yet and we’re not writing the story.</p>
<p>ksarmand quote:
</p>
<p>The suggestion that the criticism that the debt is for NYU particularly is unsupported by facts. You can’t provide any instances where any of us have not held similar positions when big debt is being considered for other schools. </p>
<p>Big debt for an undergrad is a bad idea. It’s even worse for a student who comes from a low-income family because he won’t even have the parachute of asking his parents to help out occasionally when he’s short of money for loan payments (like middle class and others can). </p>
<p>Calmom quote:
</p>
<p>Calmom isn’t being too extreme. The student is considering solutions that will likely be financial suicide. He admits that he’s in a community burdened with debt, so he’s not likely getting good advice from those around him. It’s also doubtful that those around him have that level of debt. They may mostly be low-income people who’ve hurt their credit with rather low debt. They may have no idea of what it’s like to have $100k plus in debt (other than a mortgage - which is very different). </p>
<p>Calmom isn’t being ridiculous. Big debt can be depressing and can even cause one to become suicidal or extremely depressed in some cases. My neighbor’s H committed suicide over big debt. Of course, suicide is rare, and I’m not suggesting that the student will commit suicide (so, don’t flame me for that). However, I would imagine that a young grad in NYC isn’t going to want to have to sit in his apt and have no fun because all of his money is going towards debt.</p>
<p>He hasn’t mentioned what his affluent friends said when he went to them to co-sign, but it’s obvious that either they said “no,” or he realized that it wasn’t a good idea to ask them.</p>
<p>Thumper quote:
</p>
<p>Thumper’s point is very important. It is very likely this student - at some point in his college career - will not be able to make those mid-semester payments. If he has to leave the school with unpaid debt, he won’t be able to start school elsewhere until the debt is paid. </p>
<p>Now, that we know that the student is from San Antonio, that presents another wrinkle - the cost of traveling back and forth for summers and holidays. I was hoping that the student was a NY resident so that he could easily end up at a SUNY with a film program. </p>
<p>Julian, I hope that after you have a semester or two of NYU and you have that “experience,” you’ll apply to a school like Chapman U in California that has a very good film program and meets 100% of need. </p>
<p>It sounds like your current FA situation is this…</p>
<p>23,800 in grants
4,000 in work-study (some/all converted to loans *** see below)
4,000 in additional loans because parents can’t qualify for Plus</p>
<h2>5500 in fed loans</h2>
<p>$29,300 in aid (about $15k per semester)</p>
<p>***The max fed loans for an undergrad whose parents are denied a Plus Loan for 4 years is $57,500k, so that may be how they’re converting his W/S. (This is the same amount for undergrad independent students. However, $35k of that amount is not subsidized therefore that debt grows while the student is in school. </p>
<p>This amount ($57,500) by itself is a LOT for an undergrad to make payments on after graduation. Payments will be about $661 per year for 10 years. </p>
<p>This is last year’s COA for NYU at Tisch</p>
<p>Estimate of Expenses for Full-Time Undergraduate Students 2009-2010
Tuition: $42,550.00
Room and Board<em>: $13,226.00 (</em> Includes up to 14 meals per week. So this is low!)
Books and supplies: $950.00
Personal expenses: $1,000.00
Total: $57,726.00</p>
<p>**
Plus fees indicated below and any increases for the 2010-11 school year.**</p>
<p>Special Fees Applicable to all New York University Students can be found in the NYU Bulletin.</p>
<p>Film Production students must pay laboratory and equipment insurance fees of approximately $681 per semester. Those who are directors of student projects may incur production costs above and beyond what is reasonably supplied by the school (in the way of cameras, equipment, stock, soundstage facilities, postproduction rooms for editing and sound mixing, processing, and other resources). On average, additional costs have been estimated as follows: $2,000 to $5,000 for the first year; $5,000 to $15,000 for the second year; $15,000 and up for the third-year (thesis). It is possible to keep these costs down, but the great majority of student directors spend the indicated amounts.</p>
<p>I don’t see any allowance for travel, which a Texas student surely will have. The $1000 in “personal expenses” is also very low for a COA that only includes 14 meals a week. </p>
<p>From what I can see, considering a small increase for 2010, the student will need to pay the school about $26k for the first semester for tuition, room, board. He believes that he has about $16k covered. It can be VERY hard for a student to come up with the $10k (plus $ for books and film major fees) for that first semester. </p>
<p>Does this student realize that if he somehow snags a job that earns over $20k per year that that will affect his FA award for the following year? </p>
<p>ksarmand quote:
</p>
<p>If you were advised to take on big debt to go to Columbia on CC, then likely that advice came from young people, not parents. The point was that parents on CC don’t typically advise young people to take on BIG debt. However, if you were advised to go to an ivy and take on relatively low loans, then that’s not this issue at all.</p>
<p>(BTW…While a person is in school, how does one make monthly payments to an unsub fed loan? Since payments aren’t expected, I’m guessing that a monthly bill doesn’t come to the house. So, how would one make payments while in school to minimize later debt? Just curious. )</p>
<p>Our kids received a quarterly statement for their Stafford loans. This included a payment “voucher” and one could choose to pay interest or pay part of the principal too. My kids handled their own payment plans. They tell me this can all be done online and an auto withdrawal can be set up for ones bank account. So…it IS possible to pay both interest and principal on the Stafford loans while you’re in school.</p>
<p>But if the OP doesn’t have money to pay the CURRENT BILLS, how would he have the money to begin repayment of his loans? </p>
<p>I hope all works out for the OP. He has a tough situation to tackle.</p>
<p>^^^</p>
<p>Oh, I agree. I wasn’t asking that question in relation to the OP. I was just wondering as an aside.</p>
<p>I too am of the opinion that the OP is a ■■■■■. No one could be this naive. Could they?</p>
<p>The OP is not a ■■■■■. This has been a quest for awhile.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>I meant annually.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>I believe I stated that in one of my posts on this thread already. (found [here](<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/1065085715-post116.html]here[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/1065085715-post116.html)</a>)</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Nor did I intimate that in my post.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Further extrapolation, I see. A loose/weak analogy does not imply that the main point being made is “ridiculous.”</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>As it has already been noted, the amount of debt I would have had to take on to attend Columbia is far less than the amount Julian would shoulder at NYU. Furthermore, there was an adult (I believe gadad) who did voice his opinion on the benefits of taking on a some debt, though it would not have been a relatively extreme amount. </p>
<p>At any rate, our situations are not quite analogous, and I never suggested that they were. With the reaction to my mild posts here, I am not too surprised Julian may have been a bit put off by the general atmosphere of this thread, which no doubt was well-meaning but may have been a tad harsh.</p>
<p>Nor did I intimate that in my post.</p>
<p>Yes, you did…</p>
<p>*This is a caveat to all future posters on NYU-related topics, I guess. *</p>
<p>You suggested a “poster beware” on NYU-related topics as if the gist of the responses would be different for another school. </p>
<p>Your post…<br>
*calmom, this analogy is a bit extreme. *</p>
<p>my post *
Calmom isn’t being ridiculous.*</p>
<p>Your response Further extrapolation, I see. A loose/weak analogy does not imply that the main point being made is “ridiculous.”</p>
<p>“extreme” and “ridiculous” are not that far apart … You’re being ridiculously picky.<br>
Calmom’s analogy was not loose/weak. It was actually very relevant. As adults, we don’t “help” young people find ways to make their adult lives miserable.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>We’re beating a dead horse here. While I did suggest a “poster beware,” my statement did not directly imply that the responses would be different for someone contemplating taking on debt for another institution. It dealt only with NYU.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>I see what you did there. And as far as I’m concerned, they are - I would’ve used “ridiculous” if that is what I meant.</p>
<p>Though these are definitions from online dictionaries, they suffice to demonstrate my point:</p>
<p>extreme: of the greatest possible degree or extent or intensity
ridiculous: pathetic; inspiring scornful pity; farcial</p>
<p>As we can see, the two terms are remarkably different.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>A loose/weak analogy does not imply that the analogy is irrelevant to the topic, only that it is not the best way of providing an illustration for the situation.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Of course; I am sure you have the best interests of everyone here at heart. At any rate, I have in no way suggested otherwise.</p>
<p>Ksarmand – would the $15K for Columbia (as opposed to Hunter/CUNY) have been your total cost, or was that the amount of loans you would have been expected to shoulder? I’m asking because you also mentioned somewhere along the line that your parents had a reasonably good income, and I’m not clear what, if any, of the costs they would have paid, as opposed to what would have come from you out of savings and work vs. loans.</p>
<p>FWIW, I would feel that $60K worth of debt would be too much, even for an undergrad at Columbia. On the other hand, I would think that a net out-of-pocket cost for Columbia of only $15K a year, with the rest covered by grants, to be a very good deal – assuming that some of that cost could be paid from current resources – or if the parents were sharing some of the loan burden with the student. So, for example, if the student could pay $5K from summer job and work-study; and the parents were willing to contribute $5K a year; and the student was taking on $5K in annual debt – leaving $20K debt at the end … I’d find that to be a very reasonable and logical approach to financing college. </p>
<p>Again – the huge amount of debt for NYU’s film program is a very different situation, especially for a student coming from a low-income background. It’s not a matter of debt vs. no-debt, its a matter of volume. Debt is reasonable when it is in appropriate proportion to ability to pay. Outside of college debt, in life, the usual procedure for taking on loans is that the borrower presents financial information to the lender, and the lender makes a decision in consideration of the borrower’s assets and income. </p>
<p>The reason I drew the parachute-out-of-plane analogy is that taking on more debt than one can possibly afford is like leaping without a parachute. The “parachute” is the ability to generate enough income to make current debt payments. So when my kids started college I looked at my assets as well as income to figure out the maximum I could afford to take out in Plus loans. My kids didn’t have much in the way of assets, so their ability to take on debt has to look at income as well.</p>
<p>
That kid isn’t going to have an apartment in NYC. Do you have any idea what a NY apartment costs? or what NY landlords require of prospective tenants in order to lease?</p>
<p>I do have a kid living in NY – one who doesn’t have to start making payments on college loans until next October — and the way that young grads manage is to couch surf until they manage to save enough up from their paychecks to cover the first + last months rent plus security deposit on a rental.</p>