<p>Great ad. Gentle enough to not antagonize the parents who subtly discourage their daughters but direct enough with specific scenarios. </p>
<p>I majored in chemistry, like the biological, not the physical, aspects. Went to medical school. Fellow women friends in chemistry did PChem, bioorganic and computer science after bachelors degrees. The PhD in PChem then did comp sci- she had debated doing a math major. Two had older sisters with PhD’s in Chemistry related fields. The other’s younger sister became a lawyer, my older sister was into elementary ed (NOT my cup of tea).</p>
<p>I have a late 1950’s photo of 4 girls ages 2-4- one is facing the camera wearing a shirt untucked and shorts, the other 3 camera shy ones chose dresses. I never did care about being neat, girly etc. I hated science in HS at some point (we had an integrated program combining the 3 major fields) and early in it I vehemently stated I was only going to take as much science as I had to. By senior year I politely told my Economics teacher I was going to major in Chemistry, not Econ because I liked it (even though I was great in Econ it didn’t appeal to me). PS- no AP/IB in my day.</p>
<p>In my (early '70’s) day there were no mentors at UW, nor any women grad students in chemistry. I did my senior honors thesis with a woman who had a PhD in PChem but was in Pharmacology (since her H was in the Chem dept she couldn’t get a job there in the '60’s). A few decades later she said there was still discrimination against women in the sciences- she had been a guest lecturer/known expert in her field many times et al- a student award receiving medical school teacher and researcher for a long time. There are now several women faculty members of the UW Chemistry dept, and cross departmental appointments (not as separated as in my day- so much now in biological chemistry). </p>
<p>You couldn’t get me to do more math and physics simply because I preferred other aspects of chemistry. Another reason I preferred chemistry to Chem E. My HS had some women science teachers as well. Son had middle school good women math teachers. He majored in math and added comp sci (globally gifted, as were his parents, so choices evolved through interest and not ability). H became a physician in India so had no college undergrad major- he likes math and physics a lot. Now half the medical students are women, unlike the increasing numbers of my era. Give my son another decade to see if he ever meets a woman to love/marry- harder to meet peers in his field.</p>
<p>Addenda. My mother ended up flunking out of college after being a top HS student. She didn’t study. She would have been a great engineer (my father had an EE degree) but consistently was told girls don’t do math/science in the late '40’s. A lot of progress in succeeding generations- I have many discrimination/anti women stories to tell from medical school (some older male physicians never were taught properly about women’s abilities et al).</p>
<p>My FIL met my MIL when he was in medical school on the GI bill after WWII. He assumed that my MIL was a candy-striper. Someone laughed at him and said, “Not only is she a med student, she’s farther along and smarter than you are!” He specialized in OB/gyn, and she in pediatrics. They moved to Madison, Wisconsin in the mid-50s, and my FIL’s partners decided it would be a conflict of interest (???) for her to practice pediatrics, so they told her to switch!! She became a psychiatrist, but became so disenchanted with the meds that she switched to homeopathic medicine.</p>
<p>Take a look at Cosmo Girl etc to get a whiff of the messages directed to women. Look at mags for young males to see what messages they’re getting about women. Just for thought. </p>
<p>Agree completely! I don’t think the intention is to take it quite so literally but to raise awareness as to how our subtle and not so subtle reactions affect our children. </p>
<p>My daughter started high school in a math track that wasn’t the highest one. We wondered whether this was an appropriate placement but the head of the math department was very discouraging and harped on how “difficult” the program was and how few kids survived it. Note: the class was overwhelmingly male and the girls who joined it dropped out at a much higher rate. D was scared off. She spent a year in the recommended class and then asked to move to the highest level. She took and passed a placement test but was repeatedly discouraged from making the leap.</p>
<p>I consider myself a pretty progressive parent who has tried very hard over the years not to impart the sorts of messages shown in that ad. Yet, when the math teachers continued to suggest that D would meet with failure in this rigorous, intense math class and that she had to “really want it” and be prepared for frustration, I was cowed. I went so far as to suggest to her that maybe she should consider opting out.</p>
<p>You can guess the end of the story. She thrived in the class. Yes, she worked hard. Yes, it * was * hard. But after a year, she told me that she no longer panicked at the sight of an “impossible” math problem. She can’t believe that she thought the math she did in middle school was hard. She’s so much more confident about math now and she understands that it, like many other skills, is something that can be learned. </p>
<p>The thing is, I probably did send messages that were discouraging. I was worried she’d be over her heard. I was worried that so few girls managed to survive that math track. </p>
<p>@turtletime, I laughed appreciatively about your comments about the sea star. I would have been the parent telling ANY kid to put the animal back into his environment. Also about the glittery, wet planets. That project WAS out of control, lol. </p>
<p>It’s just not a very good ad, imho. The intended message is okay, although I happen to think pretty is quite helpful, too. But the ad fails to make much of a point. It seems those who want to get the point appreciate it and everyone else is kind of saying, “Huh?” My older daughter did not do high level math, but so what? Plenty of girls did and she chose not to, I don’t mind a bit. She is very smart, though.</p>
<p>I think most people would agree that most CC parents are not the type to limit studies by tradition. I was always sad my older D didn’t go into math. Her pull out math teacher in 4th grade who had a PhD in math said she was supersharp, but she gravitated to English. Still has a good job. Her sister was the math major (as was their mother). DW still takes our young teen son out to look at comets and flora. Equal opportunity rearing.</p>
<p>I was born in the 1950’s.
I was very aware of different messages for boys and girls.
However that was over 50 years ago.
We now have many STEM based schools, camps, including those targeting girls and minority girls.</p>
<p>Which is all great.
However, I am much more concerned about the lack of accurate health education in our schools and the paucity of available health care including contraception for teens.
Teen pregnancy rates impact life choices much more than a Verizon ad.</p>
<p>I have a problem with the apparent idea that it’s an either/or thing. A lot of STEM fields women I know are not at all “girly”. They wear their hair very short and wash-and-wear. They dress in jeans, etc, and often don’t wear makeup. Whether they are afraid of not being taken seriously or are just expressing their natural personalities, I don’t know. </p>
<p>Personally, I LIKE pretty clothes, shoes, jewelry, and I always wear makeup - lots of makeup ;). I color my hair and do my best to have an attractive (generally longer) hairstyle. When I was younger I never played down my looks. If people have a problem with that, it’s THEIR problem. </p>
<p>I liked the ad. I am a feminist who used to be a CS major and an EE major who eventually changed to become a MD. I am particularly sensitive about the words said intentionally or unintentionally by all sorts of folks around me (including my inlaws) to my daughter and the messages delivered by media: TV, movies, magazines, print ads etc. which reinforce female stereotypes. It’s just nice to see an ad that at least points some of this out to the general public so that maybe it can increase awareness. And I agree with much2learn’s posts.</p>
<p>@sylvan8798, YMMV. I personally hate long hair because it makes me hot. Besides you can’t wear short hair if you don’t have an attractive face, it shows. I think people hide behind long hair, both my kids have long hair, the non-STEM girl wears make up, it’s a sorority thing. The STEM girl likes make up but don’t wear it all the time, it’s a non-sorority thing. My husband is from Europe and he likes short hair. He has a beautiful sister, she was a model when she was younger, she also wears short hair and very little make up. So maybe it’s an American thing, long hair and lots of make up, or is it a sorority thing.
EDIT to add I know a very successful general manager of a high tech firm with long blond hair, when I first met her, I thought she was a secretary. I know I’m stereotyping here but she is very smart CS/Engineer person. :D</p>
<p>1.It is interesting to me that many of you do not see gender biased comments as a concern in your own families. Perhaps it is more of a Midwestern relic than I realized?I thought that ccers were unlikely to be that parent, but I thought more of you would see this as a concern. Is it not happening or are people blind to it? I am not sure. Perhaps some of both.</p>
<ol>
<li><p>I find it interesting that many people did not understand the ad at all. I thought it was clear, but I guess not. </p></li>
<li><p>I agree that health education is a big problem too. Oddly where we live it is actually pretty good, but where my brother’s family lives it is very bad. His daughters went to a religious high school with a very very high pregnancy rate. Thankfully, neither of my nieces succumbed to that fate. There is a very strong political lobby that opposes telling students the truth in sex education class, so I am not sure that much can be done at the macro level. I can only save my own kids for now. </p></li>
<li><p>As far as high level math, it is clearly not for everyone. There are lots of girls that should not be there. The issue is that many girls who really should be in those classes are not. This year in D1’s MV calc class (HS senior) there were 25 students: 21 boys and 4 girls. While my sample size is small, I don’t think that it is atypical. Interestingly the girls who are there are doing very well.</p></li>
</ol>
<p>I liked the commercial too. It is designed to give the basic message to parents that you should encourage girls to explore things related to science and it accomplishes that. However, I like the more positive commercial that GE has: “My mom works for GE.” It accomplishes being a promotion for girls to pursue science and engineering and is also very a good promo for GE. The Verizon commercial does nothing for Verizon.</p>
<p>I am also in the mid-west and hear gender-biased comments all the time. Both my husband and I are engineers, D1 is 2/3 done towards her ChE degree, and D2 starts this fall on dual degrees in engineering and music. We did not push either daughter into engineering, but they both have strengths in and enjoyment of math and science. </p>
<p>I’ve heard blatant gender-biased comments at work for more than 20 years (“you probably don’t care about your salary since you have a husband with a good job”) and my daughters hear them routinely. My most recent favorite is from a posting on line by a parent of a son at D1’s engineering school (which is 75% male). Paraphrasing: “I bet you parents of girls are all so happy your daughters will probably find husbands with good jobs before they graduate.” What?!? Yeah, my daughter is working hard to get an engineering degree at a great school just so she can find a husband. That said, I do think many things have improved in the area of gender equality - but there is room for even more. </p>
<p>On a positive note, both my Ds usually take comments directed at them with a grain of salt. It helps that their grandma is also an engineer and another excellent role model to them - retired dean of graduate school at major university and former president of a national professional society. Because my Ds have seen multiple generations where men and women can be engineers they don’t think it unusual. Rather, they think it small-minded when folks assume girls aren’t or shouldn’t be interested in STEM. </p>
<p>Both Ds seek out opportunities to nurture other girls interested in STEM. They tutor, proctor math competitions, and so on. D2 just came home from orientation (large public U) and shared that she was the only girl in her group of 15 freshmen engineers that met together with an advisor. I asked how she felt about that. Her comment: “I think it was a bit awkward – mostly for them.”</p>
<p>So I see the concern, too. But I’m cautiously optimistic that the next 20 years will show more improvement. </p>
<p>^I wouldn’t count on that, MO2TG. I graduated (the first time) in 1987 and I don’t think the ratios have changed all that much since then. Last fall, in my sophomore Dynamics course I had 29 guys and 0 girls. This is in an Engineering Technology program with 200+ students. </p>
<p>I honestly think (and I apologise if anyone has already said this) that the fact that girls are gravitating towards life sciences, social sciences, and humanities more than hard sciences is not due to that fact that they are being deterred from entering the fields in any way, but rather to the fundamental neurological and evolutionary differences between the two genders. Women tend to be drawn to people-oriented fields and men to quantitative fields.</p>
<p>This comment is in no way meant to say that women can’t make amazing engineers or that there is anything “wrong” with them if they’re not in a people-centric field.</p>
<p>Coming from a prospective engineering major turned English major 17-year-old girl with a mother working in insurance/accounting/finance and a musician father.</p>
<p>@GMTplus7 i’m a girl and i personaly prefer the life sciences bcuz it’s more interesting and has more implications to help the world solve problems rather some person typing on a computer screen all day or working on a math problem. Don’t get me wrong I love physics,math,egineering,etc. but i’d choose the lab anyday over a computer screen :-h </p>
<p>@LAMuniv “I honestly think (and I apologise if anyone has already said this) that the fact that girls are gravitating towards life sciences, social sciences, and humanities more than hard sciences is not due to that fact that they are being deterred from entering the fields in any way, but rather to the fundamental neurological and evolutionary differences between the two genders. Women tend to be drawn to people-oriented fields and men to quantitative fields.”</p>
<p>It is possible that wanting to work with people is a factor that causes women to choose other fields. However, that does not suggest that women aren’t also deterred from entering STEM fields. They are independent of each other.</p>
<p>@KimberlyLalla “I personally prefer the life sciences bcuz it’s more interesting and has more implications to help the world solve problems”</p>
<p>Well they are both important. Which one has more implications to help the world solve problems is very questionable. If you use a computer or a smart phone or a car or any equipment in your lab, then you need engineers. Some engineers spend their days in a lab and a lot of life sciences researchers end up spending endless hours staring as a screen. It really isn’t that clear cut. Working for Google or Facebook or building a bridge or designing a missile defense system can be fulfilling for a lot of people. I guess which is better depends on the person, but it is clear that the world needs more people in life sciences and more people in physical sciences. </p>
<p>Keep in mind that encouraging more women to consider Physical Sciences, does not mean that Life Sciences are a bad choice in any way. It is great that you enjoy what you are doing. </p>
<p>There are also many women in majors that have a difficult time finding jobs in the current economy that would probably have an easier time finding work if they had an engineering major, so that can be a factor too.</p>
<p>I know some very talented middle school girls who believe that the most difficult high school STEM courses would be too hard for them. These girls have better grades and test scores than the boys who will be in those classes, and they even know this, but they still feel this way and opt out.</p>
<p>I think there is a big problem with fashion as well. Parents of many girls tend to dress them in fashionable clothes and shoes which make active or messy play impractical. and pretty much limit them to quiet indoor sedentary games. Not sure why anyone would buy kids play clothes that you can’t run around outside with, but many families do. Rather like fashion foot-binding for girls. I’ve never seen boys wearing clothes they couldn’t go exploring in the woods wearing, but I see this with plenty of girls.</p>