<p>so... if I am planning to go to a top notch business school, engineering major is the best preparation for me? Because I talked with like representative from top schools today such as Berkely and U of Chicago... they said that they all love kids from Engineering major... so that means... I will have more chance of getting accepted in if I do undergrad in engineering? They said that engineering students have far better math skill and the ability to learn hard materials (comparing what subjects the engineering students learn with what business major learn in undergrad). So if I do engineering, and I get the same GPA and Work experience + activities as this another guy who came from business major as an undergrad.. and this business school is deciding to take only 1 student...either me or him.. they will choose me?</p>
<p>I doubt anyone would get "the same GPA" doing business as engineering. Getting a 3.5 in engineering is likely more work than a 3.9+ in business.</p>
<p>the same gpa for me is like.. I get 3.5 in engineering... and this another guy get 3.5 in business... they will think that i am better yah?</p>
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so... if I am planning to go to a top notch business school, engineering major is the best preparation for me? Because I talked with like representative from top schools today such as Berkely and U of Chicago... they said that they all love kids from Engineering major... so that means... I will have more chance of getting accepted in if I do undergrad in engineering?
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<p>The benefit is much more indirect. It's not really that the engineering major, by itself, gives you a significant advantage in geting into B-school. It's that an engineering major is likely to get you a decent job (i.e. an engineering job) that is a pretty good foundation for getting you into B-school. The truth is, a lot of liberal arts or even business majors end up in crap jobs that don't prepare them properly for B-school.</p>
<p>No not the best. Wharton->IB (Goldman Sachs)->top PE is probably the best way into top MBA programs.</p>
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No not the best. Wharton->IB (Goldman Sachs)->top PE is probably the best way into top MBA programs.
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At which point an MBA would be virtually irrelevant?</p>
<p>unless you wanted to get out of finance, and do nonprofit work, or any other career path.</p>
<p>the single most common reason for people to seek an MBA is for a career change.</p>
<p>Or unless you wanted to move up in PE and all the senior people in the firm had MBA's....</p>
<p>what does PE stand for?
is it better to go to Wharton -> IB or is it better to go to MIT (engineering/Sloan)-> IB or is it better to go to MIT (engineering) -> IB? Is it really hard to go from MIT -> IB?</p>
<p>It depends on what you want to do at the ibank. MIT sends a third of their class to Wall Street, or did before this year. Most of those guys are quants. Wharton grads tend to go to corp fin, M & A, etc.</p>
<p>Overall I wouldn’t say you have a better chance as an engineering major unless you go to a school where you will ave access to elite engineering jobs. If you take a run of the mill engineering job, chances of moving up the ladder quickly and getting management responsibility, which is what the B schools want to see, are slim.</p>
<p>What exactly do you consider an ‘elite’ engineering job?</p>
<p>I know that a number of the grads I talk to end up moving into management fairly quickly - or at least technical management positions. Most recently, we had United Airlines and Eli Lily grads come in and talk with us about their experience on the job, some of them have only been out of school for < 2 years and they currently have 30 direct reports, head departments, etc. Other people I have spoken with work for GE, Rolls Royce, etc., and have had similar experiences. Now, dont get me wrong - I understand that these probably arent what you consider elite jobs, so I am curious as to what you describe ‘elite’ as?</p>
<p>I guess part of the reason that these people may have moved into management quickly is bc I’m in Industrial Engineering, which is generally considered highly technical management training to some extent.</p>
<p>purduefrank - I find your post interesting - I work for a Fortune-100 aerospace/defense company and I know of no one in a real management role after just 2 years. In fact, the rules require at least 3 years before going into anything labeled as management, and then only if you have a PhD! With a BS it takes a least 7! The best I have seen after 2-3 years is some type of junior program management type role where someone is in charge of 3-5 people for their work on a specific program that represents maybe 50% of their time.</p>
<p>That having been said, I am thinking entirely in the engineering side - there may be cases where people are in charge of a larger group of technicians or others without a bachelors degree. I just found your post interesting and very different from my own experience.</p>
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<p>PE = Private Equity</p>
<p>I personally don’t think there are any “elite” engineering jobs. In my experience as an engineer the best jobs have been those that give you the most exposure to a variety of operations. In large companies this has been nice because you also have the resources to get the required training. In small companies it has been nice because you get to push the mold and take leadership roles with ultimate accountability, and you are probably working closely with someone who is a leader in the field. Large companies suffer in that the internal struggle for power and control gets in the way of advancement and “doing the right thing”. Small companies struggle in that funds aren’t always there and that along with the technical work you will also be required to do more functional high-brow type work.</p>
<p>To get back to the OP, I think engineering is a great path but it is not a golden ticket, as an MBA is not a golden ticket to Wall Street, Consulting, or whatever your dream job is. The schooling is just the first step in your education. You need to apply the schooling in a way that will attract the attention of the MBA schools. This requires you to become self aware and get yourself into positions that you know you will not only survive in but excel in.</p>
<p>Ppl who say they love engineers say this because an engineer has very good mind for analytical and quantitative processes. They are trained to “see the whole picture” or “cast a wide net” and then to evaluate, measure, interpret, and improve. There are, however, bad engineers out there who can regurgitate the material and get through, but are unable to adopt the mindset. If you are able to enjoy engineering, not just excel at it, you will know that you can do just about anything you put your mind to. And, if you put your mind towards business…?</p>
<p>There are jobs such as developer jobs in companies that go to the top students from MIT, Caltech, Stanford, Cal and a few others. There are think tank like jobs that among the MIT grads I know, are said to be the elite, sought after jobs.</p>
<p>The are also industries like management consulting and venture capital that recruit at top engineering programs for their top students. These jobs will be very attractive to top B schools.</p>
<p>From my DS’s experience and those of his friends after graduating from CMU, I’d have to agree with cosmicfish. Most engineers land in jobs where it will take years before they manage people or budgets, two things B schools want to see.</p>
<p>hmom, thanks.</p>
<p>Cosmicfish</p>
<p>Well I guess I can’t vouch for the sincerity of their statements, so there is a possibility that they just wanted to talk up their experience in order to attract students. However, we really did just have two grads come in and speak with us during a IE seminar from Eli Lily, and unless I completely heard them wrong, that’s what they said. I also recently saw a company presentation from an ex-subsidiary of GE, Gexpro, and the grads there said they went through a two year leadership training rotation at different facilities around the country, afterward they went on to manage numerous accounts and direct reports, in the area of 30. I also just recently spoke with a United Airlines IE who I am pretty sure is now head of a department.</p>
<p>So, I don’t know why the discrepancy, but if there really is one - I would have to say that it’s most likely bc IE’s generally switch into management much faster and in greater numbers than other engineering fields. Very rarely will you find an IE doing classic IE work 5 years in, or so I’m told.</p>
<p>hmom: kind of a stupid question but what are “think tank like” jobs?</p>
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<p>Perhaps this displays my personal biases, but I would argue that certain startups offer elite engineering jobs, especially those startups who have attained a dominant public profile and are therefore highly likely to reach an exit event (i.e. IPO) soon. Google was a company that offered elite engineering jobs as many (probably most) who got in before the 2004 IPO became rich. </p>
<p>*Google’s initial public offering immediately minted more than 900 millionaires at the company, by one estimate. Even many rank-and-file employees became instantly wealthy. The total has grown over time as its shares have catapulted in value. *</p>
<p>[O</a> Googlers, where art thou? / Some employees found instant riches in the Internet search company’s initial public offering – affording them the luxury of pursuing new dreams](<a href=“http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2007/01/07/MNGA7NEDQ01.DTL]O”>http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2007/01/07/MNGA7NEDQ01.DTL)</p>
<p>As for right now, I would say that Facebook is probably the most elite of all engineering jobs. Last year, Facebook was reportedly offering $92k to engineering grads right out of school. What’s not to like? Earn a very high salary for a famous and trendy company and have the opportunity to become rich quick through a potential IPO in the near future. Twitter may similarly also be offering elite engineering jobs for the IPO potential (although I don’t know about the salaries). </p>
<p>[Google</a>, Facebook Battle For Computer Science Grads. Salaries Soar.](<a href=“http://www.techcrunch.com/2008/01/30/stanford-computer-science-grads-getting-95k-offers-from-google/]Google”>Google, Facebook Battle For Computer Science Grads. Salaries Soar. | TechCrunch)</p>