Engineering Co-ops

College Search & Selection
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Our senior year son is narrowing down his college choices. He wants to study mechanical engineering and we are in Arizona.

In no particular order -
Option 1: Texas A&M
Pros - he’d get the out of state experience. Super strong reputation. We understand the co-op program is great.
Cons - no scholarships so would pay full out of state price. He’s in for engineering but has to apply late in his freshman to get into mech engineering with no guarantee. No word yet on whether he’s accepted into Honors.

Option 2: Arizona State
Pros: already accepted into mechanical engineering. Already accepted into Barrett honors. Looks likely he will receive scholarships covering at least all tuition and possibly more.
Cons: It’s in our backyard practically so not a huge change of scenery. We can’t figure out how strong their co-op program is or not. Not as well known for engineering as A&M.

I’d just love to get insight from anybody who has has kids go through either program.

I’d also love to know if anybody knows much about whether ASU does have many co-op opportunities.

I’d also love to know if anybody has strong opinions on whether the potential co-op availability difference is a huge deal or not. We have an engineer friend who thinks it does, but she came out of a school that had one so it’s not a surprise she’d feel that way.

Thanks!

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You can co op at most any school.

If ASU is too close to home look at U of A. You can still apply.

My personal belief is reputation doesn’t matter much in engineering. ABET certification does.

Most hiring is done remotely today. My son had 5 offers, 20 interviews. All from Indeed. None came on campus and none physically met him. One flew him to their location but they didn’t offer him. All his offers were better than expected. He goes to Alabama.

You’re, in my opinion, putting too much on rep. He can do as well from likely any school. Even my sons internship - his roommates for the summer went to Ga Tech. He was invited back. They weren’t.

Look at most schools websites - most support the programs. I never heard of A&M in the top co op schools. Usually it’s NEU and Drexel plus Cincy, etc. looks like ASU supports. So it’s a fine choice.

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Great feedback! Thanks so much. Univ of Arizona is on our list too. He’s already applied there and is in for Honors too. He slightly favors ASU because he’s grown up cheering for ASU as I’m an alum (not for engineering though), and more importantly because his older brother by less than one year is at UA on a full ride (not engineering). They get along great but I think he wants to forge his own path more than it’d feel like if he followed his bro to UA. But he’s also in the running for the same full ride scholarship that his bro got to UA, so if he won that…that’d bery likely push UA back to the top. Great to know about ABET accreditation seeming like a level playing field. I wasn’t aware of that. If you have any other thoughts, please let me know!

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Look up the Texas A&M ETAM threads about the secondary admission process (ETAM or entry-to-a-major). Mechanical engineering is one of the more competitive majors in ETAM. ETAM is a significant negative for students who want one of the more competitive majors.

In different majors and one year apart at a fairly large university, it is unlikely that he will encounter his brother unless they specifically choose to do so.

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Agreed on the competitiveness at A&M for mech engineering, and the likelihood of it being an actual problem. I think the brothers being at the same school is more of a perceived strike than a real one. He in general does just have a slight preference for ASU, which is fine. But that’d get quickly overridden if he got a UA full ride. That’s exactly what happened with his older bro. Even with me having two ASU degrees was fine being bribed for my oldest son to go to UA via the full ride.

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Do your son go for his jobs via Indeed because the career fairs weren’t that helpful? And how was his process finding his internship, which I assume was paid?

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I have a kid who co-oped at another school. It’s been an amazing experience. That said, I wouldn’t recommend paying more for TAMU over your instate options just to co-op. I’d also be concerned about the high GPA index at TAMU to transition to major.

Can your student contact ASU’s career service center to ask about co-op opportunities? The key points would be asking the percentage of engineer students that participate in co-ops, and how the university works students coming and going from campus in terms of course sequencing and housing.

Work experience is important for engineering students but it can be had in regular summer internships if co-ops aren’t well supported.

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I’m am ASU MBA alum…today I think you have to check to ensure all courses can be done on one campus.

I prefer U of A - but that’s just a preference forr the more traditional and smaller campus. I think you can do well either or at A&M. Just different finances.

Best of luck.

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I got my MBA at ASU too. UA has really grown on me this year with our older son a freshman there. He loves it and we do too.

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Yes he did ask about the % of students doing co-ops - it was low, something like 10-15%. We never asked how it’s structured at ASU when they do that, not have we asked what % of students do paid internships. It seems like ASU emphasizes research opportunities a lot but I don’t quite track how that helps with getting jobs the way co-ops or paid internships do. My background was all business so this whole world seems pretty different than what I know.

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Very fair question.

I can’t tell you how helpful the school is. He goes to the job fairs. We’ve made him go to a few work shops. He uses handshake (the linkedin of college). Many, many, many companies do virtual events just for the school, etc.

I believe he doesn’t properly use the school’s resources. If he sees a company that could be of interest holding a session, even virtual, he says it’s during class. My son is a student first and I had to push to get him to realize how you’re in college to find a job.

I think many jobs that come on handshake he found earlier from his daily indeed feed.

I think, he even says with his friends at schools like UTK, Auburn, Florida and others - it’s pretty similar.

I know his career center is highly rated - whatever that means - and I know their volume of workshops, apponitments, co op opportunites, and company sessions is substantial.

But I would say he didn’t optimize them to really properly answer that.

It’s definitely different than years past - I’m pretty sure in general, fewer companies come on campus then before. That said, his offers were rotational - with opportunities all over the country - including one that might put him in Phoenix or Glendale (aerospace), Southern Mass (aero), GA/Midwest (chemical), midwest (food), and all over (electrification). I list multiple locations because he’ll be in a two year rotational at all. He was focused on that type of role…funny because it’s what I had out of ASU.

My belief is today - the kid and their effort in seeking a job far outweighs the school they go too…it was that way in years past too but moreso today.

Just don’t think you have a bad choice here - it comes down to money, location, and pull (A&M is a legal cult - having spent time each month in the city - and I say that in a nice way - their culture is like no other).

As for his internship - he worked in automotive - two locations (plants).

The first summer was $19.50 an hour and a car. The second $20.50. All interns earned the same, regardless of school.

The first summer (covid) - he couldn’t land an internship and detailed cars and made great $$. While we can blame covid, I think it’s really hard to land an internship after both first and second year in engineering. But he got lucky, landed after 2nd year and they invited him back a 3rd year. The first year he lived away from home and he was given $1K a month for 3 months for housing.

I’m learning his company perhaps paid less than others (the car was the sweetner) -as he was offered an internship in upstate NY (really upstate…not near the city) at $25 an hour and housing in a local college dorm or staybridge suites.

I think the process is similar to full-time work - where you go matters less…but you do need to be flexible. Work experience, in my opinion, begets work experience - so one has to work hard to obtain an internship - so you can say I helicoptered a bit but we had a strategy of ensuring he made the effort to do so (2-3 apps a day)…plus to go to interview sessions, learn interviewing techniques like STAR, etc. And where you go location wise - it doesn’t matter - it’s 12 weeks - you need the skills/experience on the resume.

I think he should find the right school - and A&M is a great choice - but if there’s a full ride or other concerns, the others are great too.

PS - just saw you mentioned research. My son’s GF at Bama has done research all three summers. She’s graduating and headed back for her Masters- but I convinced her of the importance of getting professional experience off campus - and she’s in a small major (metallurgical) and did obtain a position - which I personally think will help her long term. In this case, the school took her to a conference in Chicago and she was able to network with many companies.

Best of luck.

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You can also ask for “first destination survey” information from the career center for mech es. They should have starting salary info, the top employers, and regional locations. They should also have the info for internships and internship salaries.

Our experience was that our D’s schools still brings companies to campus for recruiting events multiple times/year. IMO, it’s worth delving into how ASU handles recruiting and not just assuming it’s all virtual. There is value to being able to talk to companies face to face and hearing from fellow students about their experiences at those companies.

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I should clarify - there are definitely companies coming physically…but just not used to what I experienced. I mean, at ASU in grad school, there were more companies on campus for supply chain than students. I had one elective in it and got an offer from Fed Ex.

There are companies that come - but the dynamic has changed. Given Phoenix especially and Tucson are major cities, there’s likely more.

But given my son’s experience and interest - and those names he “liked” vs. the ones he had no interest in - it appears to me to be more virtual - even if focused on his school specifically - like we’re at Bama on the 18th and have X slots - often they would be “Zoom”.

But yeah - that’s fair.

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Makes sense. And I agree about it philophically coming down more to hustle than anything. It’ll be interesting to see how he does going through all this. His grades have been good in high school because he’s smart, but he does NOT like playing the game of being a teacher’s let or kissing butt to get an A. I figure in engineering school his lack of wanting to play that game should be fine since it’s more stem classes with what should be less subjective grading than you would see in a high school English class.

We have never been to College station so we are actually doing a quick visit there Wednesday and Thursday this week. At this point I’m not seeing a ton of reason to pay the extra premium for him to go to A&M but at least it’ll be good to see the school and hopefully eat some good barbecue while we’re there.

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Engineering is a very tough major…a lot of dedication is required…a lot…and if you read studies, nationally 40-60% drop the major. Some don’t see it - but I think that’s at top schools. I know my son said a son were gone even first semester - he jokes to B school - I think a poke at me :slight_smile:

Just pulled this off the ASU page. A bit more difficult to read and they have other pages - is the A&M page as well.

Since you’re going - go with an open mind. It’s a HUUUUUUUGE campus and quite nice as is the town - it neighbors Bryan. No doubt it’s a great school - but to me it dwarfs even ASU. But it’s a very nice area - and lots of good restaurants. And the culture is strong and real. When you graduate, everytime you introduce yourself, you follow it with, Aggie, class of 2028 :slight_smile: Enjoy the visit. I have no doubt A&M offers an outstanding experience and opportunity as will each of your other choices.

Edit - this is 2017/18 data for ASU - it looks low. Will see if I can find newer. Surprised it came up.

Undergraduate-Outcomes.pdf (asu.edu)

Survey Results (tamu.edu)

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He has great options, congratulations to him!

From where I sit, I’d go with ASU and not think twice - it’s a strong program, direct admit to mechanical engineering, and there is a lot of recruiting from Phoenix based companies as well as California.

My sister in law is an Assistant Director at Fulton, and she obviously is biased, but she has great things to say about Fulton’s ability to place kids in co-ops and internships. She was pushing hard for my son to come (admitted to aerospace), but he’s staying in Virginia (Virginia Tech) b/c even after merit scholarship it’s still cheaper, and he prefers a rural campus to an urban one.

However, if he didn’t get into Tech, there’s a very good chance he would have chosen ASU over his other schools (Colorado School of Mines, Michigan State, VCU), he hadn’t heard from WPI or Purdue before withdrawing - Purdue might have edged ASU, but that was a hard reach and highly unlikely. So ASU was more than just a safety for him - he really liked it, and not just because of proximity to family. He toured their robotics labs and was really impressed.

So, if “fit” is a toss up between the two, I’d take the cheaper option and not think twice. I get the desire to leave home though… but it’s a big university, he can get immersed there and feel like he’s in another world.

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Great feedback! Especially about your sister in law. I am leaning pretty strongly ASU and think our son is too, though we will still encourage an open mind when we visit A&M for a couple days this week. While touring I anticipate I’ll be thinking this question the whole time: is A&M so much better than ASU that it’d be worth ~$100k more in cost over four years? And I can’t imagine that question having a yes answer, at least to us.

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I think the danger with ASU is getting distracted. They accept more students and weed them out through the classes (low graduation rate). But if he’s in Barrett’s (which has a very good reputation), he’s likely going to be surrounded by kids who will support each other, so it’s less of a risk.

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40-60% leaving engineering would be at all colleges with engineering, not just at the most selective ones (where the generally better prepared students tend to have a much lower rate of leaving engineering).

That said, it would not be surprising of ASU and UA had high rates of leaving engineering, because their admission selectivity is not that high (they are broad-access state universities in the state’s largest and second-largest metro areas as well as the state’s flagships). But the risk of not being able to finish in engineering for a specific student is more student-related. A student with a 4.0 HS GPA in hard courses (including hard math and science courses) is much more likely to complete a bachelor’s degree in engineering than a student with a 3.0 HS GPA in not-so-hard courses, regardless of what college the students attend.

But also, there is the wrinkle of secondary admission to major or weed-out practiced by some colleges where the department is not large enough for all interested students among those admitted (to the college or to its engineering division). That can have a negative effect in retention in some engineering majors at those colleges. Texas A&M ETAM is a concern here.

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TAUM has a much different feel than a standard large state school. The Corps of Cadets has a big influence on the school. About 80% of students get their first choice in engineering. I would expect this to be lower in MechE.