Note that neither UMass Amherst nor Swarthmore are, in their own right, high-powered engineering programs. I realize that the CC hive mind likes to tout the value of small LACs over state schools, but this argument really doesn’t hold in engineering. Engineering tends to be a bit more egalitarian rather than being weighted toward elite private schools.
@aquapt My post was not necessarily directed at you so much as the fact that, after your post, we started getting a bunch of suggestions for other Seven Sisters-type schools seemingly to the exclusion of the more traditional engineering programs.
IMHO, outside of the individual college forums, the engineering forum tends to be the least pro LAC and most pro state school on CC. Likely because most engineers come from large public universities, and we tend to appreciated the advantages of following that path (and discount those advantages offered by smaller LACs).
Stage flagships (for in-state students)often give the best bang for the buck. And there are a lot of other advantages too. Having said that, it’s not the right answer for every student / family.
I’m personally not a fan of the all-female options (even though yes, I know they are often associated with other schools / facilities). The engineering world is still mostly males, and I feel like going to college in a similar environment (like I did in 1980s) is helpful. Funny follow-up: when I switched to a more software / business role 14 years ago, it did take a while to get used to working with lots of women (and non-engineer men).
Try looking for a university with and engineering college (with a curriculum that has space for electives to pursue your creative side - not all do) that encourages you to take classes, a minor or a second major across other colleges within the university. D1 did not want to be in humanities and science classes comprised of all engineers. She listened to tour guides tell stories about needing to go to the writing center for tutoring and declared that she was done editing everyone’s writing assignments.
Before you decide on engineering (you have another year and a half to explore) keep asking if you enjoy the science or applying the science and math concepts to solve problems. Most engineering disciplines are heavily math and physics based. For example, yes you need to be a good chemistry student to become a chemical engineer, but you should really enjoy physics. One path will lead to a science degree and the other to an engineering degree. This choice is more important for applications than the specific science or engineering major which can easily be chosen after your freshman year.
For engineering specific ECs, you many not find any in high school applicable to your interests. Take or self study a programming language, this is where female students tend to be at a disadvantage to male students (reinforced by professors during D1’s tours, S1 was self taught). In my day, it was drafting; without shop class, I had never considered 3d objects more complex than a cube. There were many freshman nights that I was still drawing when the sun came up.
Good luck, in addition to traditional engineering schools we toured UCSD, Penn, Columbia, Tufts, Hopkins, UVA, Cornell and they all would provide options for you to explore as would most large state schools. Look at curiculum planning guides online, elective spaces matter. Many posts are correct: a female dominated college experience may not prepare you to collaboratively work within a male dominated business unit.
You should do the ECs you like to do. Having the ECs in writing and debate is great for engineering because that’s an area a lot of engineers struggle. I typed papers for an engineer and he was a very smart guy but grammar was not his thing.
I don’t think schools consider URM for particular majors but rather for admissions to the university overall (if they consider URM at all, many do not).
My daughter had no engineering ECs at all in high school and didn’t even have AP Calc or physics. She had no trouble being accepted into schools directly to engineering.
Your question, as posed, related to being accepted into engineering. Acceptance and scholarship are entirely different things. Yes, being female is an advantage to being accepted to engineering programs. But with a 1550 SAT as a sophomore, FREE college would be my advice. The caliber of a school is a thing of the past. Figure out where you can get your bachelor’s for free, and where you would fit in socially.
Regarding the question about EC’s, any adult can see right through a bunch of phony EC’s. One EC is enough. Do something you’re passionate about. An engineering applicant with creative writing credentials would be pretty compelling. Good luck!
By restricting your choice of colleges to traditional colleges for women you age limiting your choices of engineering majors. There is a very large range of engineering options.
Pursue EC’s which actually interest you.
General rule, it is easier to switch from Engineering to English than the other way around.
Consider engineering with an English or technical writing minor.
Hi!
I’m currently an female Electrical Engineering student who is also really good at English, so I kind of know where you’re coming from.
First of all, if you’re looking at engineering because of the money (I’m not assuming you are, just putting it out there), I’d stick with English if that’s what you really love. It will make your time in college a lot more enjoyable and you’ll have a lot of marketable skills like communication and writing. Also, I know a local CEO with an English degree, so there are definitely career opportunities, even if it’s a bit harder to get started.
That said, if you are really interested in engineering, welcome to the club! It really is a fascinating field. Don’t worry too much about your ec’s. I did debate through my school and loads of leadership through girl scouts (in addition to being on a robotics team, but that was just because I enjoyed it). Maybe see if you can work STEM issues into your ec’s? Like, I did a ton of STEM advocacy in my leadership roles. No matter what, do what you enjoy. If you can talk/write passionately about whatever you did in high school, it will be more impressive than being ambivalent about a bunch of STEM ec’s. Also, if you’re considering CS, it’s pretty easy to teach yourself programming online these days so you don’t necessarily have to join a club to try it out.
Now, I don’t know the answer to your main question, if its easier to get into engineering programs as a female. I think it depends on the program and the college. Biomedical has a high percentage of women, my degree and Mechanical engineering have low percentages of women, so that may affect it as well. But I do agree with the other posters on here and would highly suggest that you enter engineering directly. It’s really hard to switch into engineering without lengthening your time at college because there are so many math and science prereqs to take before you even start the engineering classes. If you’re even on the edge about engineering, I’d enter the major and then if it doesn’t work you can change into English relatively easily. Speaking of prereqs though, if you’re considering engineering I would try to be ready to enter Calculus 1 at the time you enter college. Not the end of the world if you’re not, but it may hold you back a bit.
I’m from the West coast, so I’m not familiar with the SAT scale, but I wouldn’t worry too much about the difference in your math/verbal scores. I got perfect scores on the Reading/English portions of the ACT and 3-4 points lower than perfect on the Math/Science (to give you some reference, 36 is a perfect score on the ACT while 21 is the national average). All my scores were really good, but my English scores were better while my math/science scores were still too low to get me into elite STEM schools (namely, Georgia Tech). But you don’t need to get into elite scores to study engineering. It’s in a lot of demand, so even a state school will get you a good job. And if you enjoy engineering, you’ll be able to get through the math and science classes (no shame in hiring a tutor if you have too) and keep in mind that nobody expects a 4.0 GPA out of engineering students. To put it shortly, just because you’re better at english on paper, and may even really enjoy english (I know I do), that doesn’t mean that English is the only career for you or that you shouldn’t study engineering.
One last thing. Some schools have Honors programs. These usually focus on liberal arts education but are open to all majors. They may be a little more difficult (not really at my school, but maybe at others) but they will give you the excuse to take some humanities courses while studying engineering. Or don’t worry about filling certain requirements and just take random English courses for the fun of it. I’m thinking of dropping Honors to do a Spanish minor, but you could also do any humanities related minor, just for fun. And if you do take an English minor, it will probably help you in your career because STEM companies are looking for more STEM majors with strong communication skills.
Ultimately, just go with what feels right to you, and don’t worry if it changes down the road. It’s great to have a plan, but when I was your age I wanted to be a mechanical engineer only to find out my brain just doesn’t work that way. Then I wanted to be a biomedical engineer all the way up to starting college last fall, but when I got into the major I realized again that it just didn’t fit me. Thinking about my time in robotics led me to choose electrical engineering, which is a good fit for me. A lot of times it just takes some trial and error. Perhaps more similarly to you, my younger sister wanted to study animation at your age but is now thinking about being a math teacher or geologist instead. I’d recommend trying out some STEM ec’s or at least messing around with that kind of stuff on your own time to see if you’re really interested in doing it for a career, but don’t worry too much if you change your mind. And I wouldn’t choose a major based on how easy/hard it is to get into. Choose what you love!
My D decided late junior year to pursue engineering. Before that it was art and all her EC’s were art and music., with the exception of math club, which her sister made her join as a junior. It was no problem to be admitted or to do very well in an engineering program. She did not find herself behind the kids who had done robotics and such. She had completed AP chem, AP physics, and AP calc BC in high school.
Being a great writer is a huge asset in engineering,
Consider schools with a first year engineering program that allows you to explore different majors within engineering, if you haven’t narrowed things down by the time you hit college. The one my D looked at was University of Arizona, which did not have competitive admission to individual majors after the first year. My D ended up attending a tech focused school and dove straight into her intended major.
My understanding is a number of good engineering programs desire to get more M-F balance than would otherwise happen, and consequently it is a little easier to be admitted to them as a F.
That doesn’t mean they are particularly easy to be admitted to anyway.
And it doesn’t mean you should follow that path if you don’t want to study engineering.
It doesn’t mean admission to a particular engineering college as a F is easier than admission to a particular Arts & Sciences college, for a particular individual.
I think you should pursue the ECs you enjoy the most. And apply to the types of colleges that have the programs of study you most want. Life is short.
First, as the number of highly qualified gals applying for engineering increases, there is no longer the same bump as a few years ago, just for being female.
“STEM ECs are dramatically overemphasized on these boards.” It doesn’t matter what applied to us, as parents. Nor some more recent anecdotes. Things change. For the more competitive colleges (holistic elites,) one of the necessities, ime, IS the relevant activities. In particular, collaborative math-sci. That does include a broad range of EC options, at least, in the US. You don;t get in over competing applicants just for being strong in stem and thinking engineering sounds interesting.
As for OP’s explanation: seeing how they’re able to do so much with their technical knowledge. I’ve wanted to be writer since forever, but lately I’ve been feeling like engineering has so much of a creative side as well, and through it, i would be able to directly impact society in a much deeper way-- creative writing is fun, but at the end of the day, it can only do so much. Well, you wouldn’t believe how many kids claim this- the creativity and the ability to impact society.
That’s not enough. Some kids aren’t doing anything “for society” now, not any of the folks they claim to want to help. Lots think engineers do these great things solo, though engineering is so collaborative. And creative? Sure, but they miss that each engineer is part of a larger process, a piece. There are plenty of routine days and projects that may not end up delivering miracles.
So, OP needs to ask herself what she really knows about what engineering is and what engineers do.
What about when speaking based on experienced as a current engineering faculty member? Asking for a friend.
I guess kids that go to high schools that do not offer a broad range of STEM ECs can’t go to competitive engineering programs for college. Even my old high school years later only has one additional club related to this sort of thing, and there isn’t exactly a lot of high tech industry or anything in the area I grew up to offer ECs outside of the school-sponsored ones. It’s sad for me to learn that apparently the kids in my hometown will have a hard time studying engineering because of this.
What portion of 17- and 18-year-olds do you think are starting college with their lives already figured out? The vast majority of high school students are considering engineering because they think it “sounds interesting,” not because they already have years of engineering experience and their lives already planned out. Some students fit into that mold. The vast majority do not.
I’m telling my experience on the front end. I think you may be using extreme examples. You don’t need a broad range available to choose.
A kid should note a major based on more than “sounds.” If the supp asks, asks Why This Major, the answers need some substance. I did qualify with “holistic elites.” You need a good explanation, whatever subject you choose. Want creative writing? Better be more than, 'Being a novelist sounds interesting." Speaking of, would you expect an applicant for writing to have some writing activities?
Writing activities are considerably cheaper and more widespread than STEM opportunities. An inner city school with chronically paltry funding, for example, can’t afford a nice robotics lab, but they do generally have paper, pencils, and some kind of computer lab. For the record, chronically underfunded schools are far more common in this country than chronically well-funded schools. There is a real opportunity gap for things like STEM ECs in high schools.
Meanwhile, it sounds great in practice to say that a kid should justify their choice of major based on more than just “sounds interesting,” but many who try can’t be all that sincere about it since most people that age simply don’t have their future plans sorted out to that degree yet. It’s great to say “I have done research at X local university and taken Y dual enrollment courses there and my mom has worked at Microsoft for Z years and has cultivated a real interest in coding in me, which I’ve turned into N new smartphone apps!” However, the overwhelming majority of 17 year olds are entering their first semester of senior year and still asking “what is engineering?”
“but many who try can’t be all that sincere about it since most people that age simply don’t have their future plans sorted out to that degree yet”
That’s a problem. The Common App asks the question. Many supps aske Why This Major. OP can explore more and decide whether engineering is truly right for her. If it is, there are plenty of schools that will accept her.
I’m bowing out if this particular debate. You may be a prof, I’m one noting how one elite does it. And others.
I agree that “is sounds interesting” isn’t enough. WHY does it sound interesting? Even if you don’t have experience with STEM EC’s, do you know what engineers do? Do you know what your specific kind of engineers do? Why is that interesting? Have you always been fascinated by the space shuttle? Do you want to design the next generation of spacecraft? Have you always wanted to understand how things work? Justifying your choice of major doesn’t mean you have to have experience, it means you have to have a reason. And yes, another applicant who has experience, and bases their love of the field on that experience is probably going to have a leg up
ECs in HS are limited to only a few engineering fields and only those in communities with robotics and other similar programs. CBE, Materials, Civil, BME are flooded with former HS student mathematicians and scientists that want to develop deeper critical thinking skills to solve problems. We don’t seem to put the same constraints on those applying for a biology, physics or chemistry degree. Think about the different way most pre-med or chemistry students versus chemical engineering students approach organic chemistry. Many engineering students enter the freshman year science core undeclared and dabble in a few introductory class disciplines. Professors can define the sophomore weed out course in each major where they and their students see who has the aptitude and desire to be successful.
Also, engineering graduates go on to do everything from design, manufacturing, marketing, sales, research, project management, patent law or MD and the general public is unaware that the basis of all these jobs is highly developed critical thinking skills. I’m not sure why a 17 year old should understand “what engineers do”
With 2 current college students in a competitive engineering school, only one had relevant ECs. Those ECs and skills developed definitely helped with a freshman summer internship, not sure they helped with college acceptance though.