<p>Im starting at the University of Maryland-College Park an a bioengineering major, on the Pre-Med track. Alot of people have been saying dont do engineering because you'll get a low GPA, thus lowering your chances at Medical School acceptance. My question is, is it foolish of me to choose engineering for my Pre-Med major? Don't medical schools take into account the difficulty of major when applying to medical school, and thus would understand a low GPA of an engineering undergrad? What has been you rexperience with this topic?</p>
<p>This topic has been brought up time and again, as to whether difficulty of classes and their respective GPA impact cancel each other out.</p>
<p>The general consensus among those intimately familiar with the process (not I) will tell you that med schools will consider the difficulty of the class, but that it is very small.</p>
<p>It’s better to take the harder class and get an A than to take an easier one and get an A, but that a B in a harder class does not necessarily equate and A in the easier course.</p>
<p>With that being said you should do what you want to do, but don’t think a 3.0 in engineering equals a 3.5 in Biology, no matter how justifiable it really is.</p>
<p>Yes it is foolish of you to choose engineering for your premed major. No medical schools do not take into account the difficulty of your major when applying to medical school. Why? Well because that would make sense. </p>
<p>From my understanding prestigious but difficult undergrad is not worth it at the expense of your GPA. And premed engineering isn’t worth it either. The system is flawed. The medical admission process is stupid. </p>
<p>But I’ll tell you this. I’ve elected to take engineering as a premed despite these obstacles. Why? Instinct. Interest. Stability (If I decide to not go to med school). Challenge. Naivete (maybe).</p>
<p>Since you are asking this question you obviously have some interest in engineering. I think you should pursuit it. Say you don’t get a good gpa and you don’t go to a med school. Whatever. That’s life. My father, an engineer and a doctor, says that if you are going to become a doctor you will become a doctor. </p>
<p>Basically there are so many routes to becoming a doctor. Some will be more difficult than others. But in the end if you really want to become a doctor I think you can do it. Even if your GPA tanks in the engineering school. There are ways. Don’t try to map out your journey too much. Leave a little room for surprise.</p>
<p>*Don’t medical schools take into account the difficulty of major when applying to medical school, and thus would understand a low GPA of an engineering undergrad? *</p>
<p>no</p>
<p>@mom2collegekids
You probably have more expertise in this area than I do, but wouldn’t medical schools, some of the most prestegious and competitive institutions in the United States, be intelligent enough to recognize the difference between a 3.5 in some soft major, such as “Gay, Lesbian and Transgender Studies”(Yes, they offer such a thing), and a 3.5 in any engineering or science major? It just ****es me off to think that less qualified applicants who haven’t worked as hard, are being accepted to medical schools because they chose a major which gave them a more competitive GPA.</p>
<p>Why do you assume the “Gay, Lesbian and Transgender Studies” major is ‘less qualified’? GPA is only ONE of many factors that influence admission to med school.</p>
<p>MCAT + GPA is most often used as an initial screener for applicants and once you make it past the ‘qualified’ hurdle, then it’s the ‘everything else’ that comes into play as to whether or not you’re admitted.</p>
<p>Taking a hard class and get “B”, what does that mean? You are not capable of taking hard class with high quality. Period.</p>
<p>@WayOutWestMom
“Why do you assume the “Gay, Lesbian and Transgender Studies” major is ‘less qualified’?”
-Because it’s true. It is a virtually useless major containing very little material relevant to a future medical edication, or to any other productive career. I can also guarantee the workload in that major is far less than in any ‘real’ major.</p>
<p>“MCAT + GPA is most often used as an initial screener for applicants and once you make it past the ‘qualified’ hurdle, then it’s the ‘everything else’ that comes into play as to whether or not you’re admitted.”
-Flat out false statement. If you are suggesting that extracirriculars and volunteer experience are anywhere near as important as a solid GPA and MCAT score, you are sadly mistaken. The kid with the 4.0 GPA + 45 MCAT with minimal extracirriculars will beat out the kid with the 3.5 + 30 MCAT with great EC’s and hundreds of hours of community service 9 times out of 10. Even after the applicants are initially screened(Whivh gets rid of students with low GPA+MCAT), the major deciding factor will be GPA and MCAT scores, as these are most indicative of success in Medical School and the USMLE.</p>
<p>Terps–</p>
<p>I’m LMAO right now. I can testify from up close and personal observation that 4.0GPA + 40 MCAT w/minimal ECs does NOT beat out a 3.4 GPA and 36 MCAT with tons of ECs and community service. Why? Because the second kid above is my D1–she starts med school in July—and the first kid–that’s her BF who got rejected everywhere.</p>
<p>Medical schools do not primarily choose kids who have just great stats. (It does hold great or lesser influence at different schools, I will admit that much.) Medical schools choose kids who interview well, are thoughtful and articulate, and have demonstrated a sincere commitment to medicine. In fact med schools will often choose an “average” candidate with excellent people skills and a history of commitment to the community over a “exceptional” candidate who lacks that same. </p>
<p>How do I know–aside for observation from a distance? Well, for one, I have several friends on faculty at our local med school, including one who has served on the admission committee for multiple cycles. I’ve work in a medical research facility for several years now with lots and lots of different kinds of doctors (MDs as well as PhDs) so I’ve been exposed to their opinions/experiences as well. (Hey all I had to do is say, “My D is applying to med school” and I got all sorts of advice…)</p>
<p>As for any undergrad major being relevant to medical school–I’m skeptical of the utility of most college majors in medical education because med schools will pretty start over from scratch with your training once you get there. While it may be helpful to have had undergrad anatomy before, it’s not essential to being successful as med student.</p>
<p>“I’m LMAO right now. I can testify from up close and personal observation that 4.0GPA + 40 MCAT w/minimal ECs does NOT beat out a 3.4 GPA and 36 MCAT with tons of ECs and community service”</p>
<p>-First off, I said 4.0GPA+45MCAT will beat out a 3.5GPA+30 MCAT, YOU said 4.0GPA+40 MCAT got beat out by a 3.4GPA+36MCAT, those are two different sets of stats entirely, so it doesn’t really prove anything. Secondly, this is one instance. In most cases you will find that MCAT+GPA are the most significant aspects of a medical school application. The proof for this is easily accesible, check any top medical school average GPA and MCAT scores, and you will find that their average scores and GPA are extremely high. I’m not saying that EC’s and volunteering dont come into play in the admissions process, I’m simply reiterating the fact that when it comes down to it, you are gaining admission to an academic institution, and therefore, the most important part of your application is…thats right; your academic record and test scores.</p>
<p>P.S. Where did your daughter’s bf go to college for undergrad? It’s pretty unheard of to get rejected from EVERY medical school with a 4.0 and a 40 MCAT? Did he do absolutely nothing EC-wise?</p>
<p>WOWM, I think we can chalk up that data point as an outlier. I don’t think there’s much precedential value to it.</p>
<p>I don’t think WoWmom’s daughter’s boyfriend got rejected everywhere the first time he applied. I think he was accepted to Uchicago, but declined. then he tried another app season, and then was rejected…likely because of his UChi declination…not because of his stats.</p>
<p>However, I may not remember everything…and maybe he applied for 3 app seasons…not sure.</p>
<p>*but wouldn’t medical schools, some of the most prestegious and competitive institutions in the United States, be intelligent enough to recognize the difference between a 3.5 in some soft major, such as “Gay, Lesbian and Transgender Studies”(Yes, they offer such a thing), and a 3.5 in any engineering or science major? It just ****es me off to think that less qualified applicants who haven’t worked as hard, are being accepted to medical schools because they chose a major which gave them a more competitive GPA. *</p>
<p>Frankly, I don’t know how med schools would view a major that might be known as an “easy” major (don’t know about the one you mentioned, but we all know that there are some easy majors out there without naming any in parrticular). </p>
<p>I’m guessing that a 4.0 33MCAT in a so-called hard major with top ECs might be more favorable than a 4.0 33MCAT in an easy major with similar ECs. </p>
<p>But, your question was really about getting a “pass” for having a lower GPA. You won’t get a pass for having a 3.4 GPA in engineering because the B’s are indicating that you don’t excel in hard classes. </p>
<p>And, you’re using an extreme example by saying “that” major is easy (that one may be, I don’t know). I doubt many people who take easy majors are pre-med. I think most pre-med majors are science or humanities and those aren’t “easy” majors. And, some might be “double majors” and include one of those “easy” majors.)</p>
<p>An engineering major may think that majoring in English is easy, but it’s not. It requires time, dedication, thinking skills, and hard work. </p>
<p>From what I understand, some med schools use some kind of system/program that does an initial screening. The thresholds might be…all with a sub 3.5 science GPA get cut…or all that have a sub 10 in a MCAT section get cut. So, in such a case, having a 3.4 would result in being cut without any consideration of major.</p>
<p>The 4.0/45 is an extreme case. A more likely scenario is that an engineering student gets lower GPA and less time for EC’s. And, the MCAT score may not be any higher because of the heavy course load. At the end of the day, one may be looking at the 5th year. Don’t let your ego push you toward an engineering degree. Yes, one may still be able to get into a medical school eventually provided one has ample resources and time.</p>
<p>Exactly how hard is engineering for a good student? I’m going to be a chemical engineering major next year, also doing premed, and I’m kinda worried. I’ve asked my dad about it(he’s an engineering professor) and he told me about 3-4 students out of a class of 30-40 get an A. But then again, he teaches at an “average” state university where the caliber of students is probably much lower.</p>
<p>I think one of the main reasons people tend to do so poorly in engineering is that they have a weak high school background in math and the sciences.</p>
<p>I know a couple people who intend to major in engineering who have only taken up to pre-calc in math and haven’t taken a serious science class.</p>
<p>Exactly how hard is engineering for a good student? I’m going to be a chemical engineering major next year, also doing premed, and I’m kinda worried. I’ve asked my dad about it(he’s an engineering professor) and he told me about 3-4 students out of a class of 30-40 get an A.</p>
<p>My son is a ChemE major who is also pre-med. He has all of his pre-med pre-reqs complete. He has a 4.0 cum and 4.0 science. Are his grades typical? No, but he works hard for his grades. So, yes, it is possible…but don’t let yourself get behind, do your homework and study for tests. </p>
<p>I agree that some kids struggle because they really aren’t Calculus-ready nor are they really ready for hard science courses. My kids’ K-12 education consisted of excellent math and science teachers. Their AP teachers were excellent. We are very grateful that they had very dedicated teachers.</p>
<p>out of curiosity, is a 3.7/40 too low for applying to HMS/Stanford/UCSF etc.?</p>
<p>I am a chemical engineering double major two BS one in chemistry and one in engineering with csce, math, and physics minor finishing my senior year. My chemE gpa is 3.62 and cum 3.36. Science is around 3.33ish because it includes my chemE gpa + an A in bio I and B+ in bio II. I was rejected from all med schools but have been accepted into Columbia’s school of engineering and chemistry graduate programs as well as many others. I have over 1,000+ hours of research and 2 publications as a co-author. </p>
<p>Here is the difference between me an a pre-med at my school. My hardest semester was
Sophomore spring semester
Bio II + lab
Ochem II + lab
Analytical Chemistry +lab
15-20 hours of research
I was in lab every single day </p>
<p>I am currently taking
Quantum mechanics (graduate)
Linear algebra (400 level math)
Electromagnetism/Circuits (300 physics) + lab
Artificial Intelligence (400 csce)
TA for ochem and research(capstone)</p>
<p>My prem-ed friends hardest semester involved
Ochem I or II
Upper div bio class
100 level for fun class</p>
<p>They are currently taking
2 400 level bio classes
capstone
100 level fun class</p>
<p>I am disappointed with the system, but it looks like I’ll be at Columbia next year probably for organic chemistry instead of medicine however. The graduate school overlooked my gpa because I had a TA spot and research and in graduate school I will be doing teaching and research. </p>
<p>And if any medical school applicant got in taking my type course loads… anyways</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>There are three ways, of course, to view this.</p>
<p>The first is to suggest that because you challenged yourself, you should be “rewarded” rather than “punished.” I see the appeal of this line of thought, but when stated explicitly like this everybody knows that this is simply not how medical schools work. They’re not rewarding or punishing people; they’re trying to create young physicians.</p>
<p>The second is to argue that while your grades were lower, most premeds taking your courseload would have done even worse than you did, and you were thus among the more qualified premeds. Recognize that this is an empirical claim – you are claiming a matter of fact – which I don’t think there’s any way to prove. One way to look at it might be to evaluate your MCAT score, which you don’t provide, but obviously that’s a very imperfect measure.</p>
<p>The third way, however, is to realize that being a premed requires specific skills – one of which is being able to navigate bureaucratic systems, set your goals properly and aim towards them, and prioritize. In this respect, taking a too-heavy engineering load is sort of like picking a too-hard routine in Olympic figure-skating. You are being evaluated not just on how well you skate, but on how well you know your own abilities. By far the most important thing that any medical student or young physician needs to be able to do is to handle everything at once – and to handle it all adequately. If your excessive focus on engineering and chemistry research meant that you weren’t able to handle your coursework, that’s not “the system’s” fault for not understanding that. It meant you should have reassessed your priorities early on and adjusted your behavior.</p>
<p>Graduate school, by contrast, is entirely about the ability to focus in on one thing and do it well even when you are hitting a roadblock or getting bored. So by contrast, it rewards very different sorts of behavior.</p>
<hr>
<p>If it makes you feel any better, I looked up the number of units that my courseload would have translated into had I been at my hometown school. I would have been taking 38 units, including 15 hours a week in a molecular biology research lab.</p>