Engineering majors vs. Business majors

<p>"Business undergrad is often seen as a weak major."</p>

<p>Oh really? Sure... valuation, derivative pricing, portfolio theory, risk analysis, and corporate taxation (all fair game in undergrad b-school) are conceptually a breeze, right? </p>

<p>Unfortunately, it appears as though to non-business majors that the concentration is simply about selling stuff. In reality, business is more grounded in advanced mathematics than many majors (hard sciences excepted). Add the fact that one needs to possess both outstanding quantitative skills as well as superb communication and presentation skills to survive. Oh, and where else do you find students who live in suits, keep the business cards of their favorite companies' recruiters (and know them on a first name basis) on hand in their padfolio from day one, and prematurely attend alumni mixers to network? Find me another major that has students interning full time during their freshman/sophomore summer so that they can be competitive enough to land a better internship during their soph/junior summer, so that they can even be considered for that big junior/senior summer when ibanks come presenting. Competitive? Oh yeah.</p>

<p>So perhaps it's not so weak after all. Out of curiosity, what exactly is your major, ariesathena?</p>

<p>agree with most posts.....go w/ your true love...sounds like engineering.. You can always get into business & management from there.</p>

<p>Here's another thread that mentions the Penn M&T program between SEAS & Wharton. Best of both worlds:</p>

<p><a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=55008%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=55008&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>I graduated. It was chemical engineering and a second liberal arts degree (for fun). Since that just wasn't hard enough, I'm now in law school. Ha!</p>

<p>MassDad has some excellent posts on the subject. As he has not stated his exact profession online (but has mentioned it offline) I will not do so, either - suffice to say, however, that he is in business/science and knows quite a bit about the subject. </p>

<p>I am of the feeling that business is best understood after working for a few years, not after high school. I did intern full-time every summer, by the way. A lot of engineers do that.</p>

<p>Please notice that I did not say that business IS a weak major; I just said that it is often perceived as one. Reality does not matter so much as the perceptions of the people who are evaluating your resume. Don't shoot the messenger.</p>

<p>It is often seen as something to do when engineering is too hard, or something which does not require intensive research and writing skills. There are obviously some outstanding b-schools (Wharton & Stern); however, there are a lot of very weak programmes which are populated by people who want a practical major but can't do engineering. As I said, it is the perceptions of the people who evaluate your resume which are the most important. If you are at one of the really good b-schools, you probably had amazing grades in high school and are working quite hard; however, that is not the case for many business majors. A lot of people I know who thought about that route wanted to do it, not to go into i-banking, but just as something that isn't too hard. There really is a huge variation - my law school has a business undergrad school attached (not major, a separate school) which is quite competitve and has Wall Street recruiters. That is a far cry from the state schools which have business as a slacker major - not it's own school, just a major that anyone can place into.</p>

<p>thanks ariesathena and everyone else!</p>

<p>i've also taken a few career/personality surveys and they say i should become an engineer :)</p>

<p>Many top business ug programs are at state schools and are very competitve--Berkeley, Michigan, Virginia, North Carolina in the top group with Maryland, Indiana, Wisconsin, Texas, Illinois, PSU and others right behind. Many require an additional application after two years of ug and a high gpa. Given the deadend nature of most engineering jobs many students prefer to go another way. Grads of the better schools have starting pay very similar to most engineers--$50-$55k plus more generous bonus than engineers ever see.</p>

<p>well that engineering degree can get you that same 50-55k job that undergrad business majors seek.. you are more respected by recruiters being an engineer and your boss will give you more responsibilities because he'll have more blind faith in you(as a business major, you'll have to earn it on the job).</p>

<p>Most engineers start out designing the most mundane and unimportant aspects of a job. Many starting business majors are handed the grunt work on a large project. Everyone starts at the bottom and has to show what they can do. At least in business you often get an office and a chance to travel.</p>

<p>Altnernatively, engineers can go into business pretty easily, whereas business majors can't get engineering jobs. It's also easier to get an MBA with an engineering degree than to get a masters in engineering having only a business degree.</p>

<p>True enough but not many people love to be stuck in engineering if they can get out.</p>

<p>As y'all don't seem to want to listen to me:
<a href="http://www.collegeconfidential.com/cgi-bin/discus/show.cgi?70/82375%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.collegeconfidential.com/cgi-bin/discus/show.cgi?70/82375&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>See posts by MassDad and Jamimom. She pointed out (very well) that business is quite a common major undergrad and thus., there is a lot of competition for it.</p>

<p>New article on Top CEO's</p>

<p><a href="http://content.spencerstuart.com/sswebsite/pdf/lib/2005RTTT.pdf%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://content.spencerstuart.com/sswebsite/pdf/lib/2005RTTT.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>I did like how they mentioned that the sheer number of engineers in CEO positions could be due to the 60s Sputnik zeitgeist - i.e. could just be the numbers of people then who are coming of age for such positions now. Lagging indicators and all that.</p>

<p>"Someone once said that it's pretty useless; with an English degree, your employer believes that you can write and spell; with a philosophy degree, they believe that you can think; with a business degree...?? "</p>

<p>Aries, again I have to take issue with a statement you've posted. I realize that "someone once said" this, so I'll try my best to avoid shooting the messenger. Any perceived frustration is aimed not at you, but whoever said this, or believes this.</p>

<p>Many business employers look specifically for the skillset that only a business (and perhaps economics) student attains. I remember a specific Merrill presentation where, upon being asked if other majors (meaning non-business) were considered by Merrill in the recruiting process, the recruiter responded "well, all other thing being equal, of course we're going to take the business major over some english student who's never seen an income statement in the course of his or her studies." She later remarked that only liberal arts majors from the most elite schools were seriously considered.</p>

<p>This is not to say that liberal arts majors encounter difficulty securing jobs in the business world. However, I would argue that the most prestigous and most well-compensated business positions out of undergrad are extremely difficult to attain for liberal arts majors (ivies and de-facto ivies excepted). After all, the Merrill woman makes a valid point. Why would they choose someone who's not only failed to show interest in the job they're pursuing by picking an unrelated major, but also someone who's not necessarily proven adequate quantitative ability, nor fundamental functioning business knowledge. </p>

<p>According to Vault's "Guide to Finance Interviews," a typical interview question is "If the strike price on a put option is below the current price, is the option holder at the money, in the money, or out of the money?" I'm sorry, but if you're a English major, good luck using your knowledge of the capitalization nuances in e.e. cummings' poems to answer this. If your a philosophy major, good luck "thinking" about this one. Pondering this and drawing vague parallels to existentialism won't answer this.</p>

<p>There's this notion out there -- an unfortunately widespread one -- that getting into a top MBA program with a liberal arts major is just as easy as doing so with an undergrad b-major. Elite schools aside, this is simply not the case. Why? Because the primary determinant in MBA admissions is work experience -- that is, QUALITY OF BUSINESS work experience. With a philosophy major, you're just not likely to attain a job impressive enough to satisfy MBA adcoms. A high scchool English teacher may have amassed 20 years of grueling, difficult, and challenging work experience; but this doesn't mean he/she can expect to get into a top business school.</p>

<p>I'm not sure what the statistics are for other business schools (though I'm sure they'd mirror this), but at least at USC-Marshall (where I work for the MBA program), the most common undergrad major of admitees is business/economics. In distant second comes all of the "liberal arts" majors lumped together (I'm not sure why it's done like this), and then engineering. Coincidence? No.</p>

<p>'I'm not sure what the statistics are for other business schools (though I'm sure they'd mirror this), but at least at USC-Marshall (where I work for the MBA program), the most common undergrad major of admitees is business/economics.'</p>

<p>Actually, they dont. CMU's MBA program might not be the norm but here you go(2006 data):</p>

<p>Undergraduate Majors
Business Administration/Accounting 20.9%
Economics 11.6%
Liberal Arts/Social Sciences 7.3%
Science and Engineering 59.5%
Other <1%</p>

<p>Popular destination for CMU MBAs: Any employer that seeks students with strong analytical decision making abilities.</p>

<p>confidential, CMU might be skewed. Every grad/professional school has a disproportionate amount of students from its own undergraduate school. CMU as you probably know is predominantly focused on engineering and computer science.</p>

<p>Then again, you may be right: <a href="http://www.bus.umich.edu/Admissions/EveMba/Profile.htm%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.bus.umich.edu/Admissions/EveMba/Profile.htm&lt;/a> Although Michigan too has a strong undergraduate engineering program.</p>

<p>and they also have a strong undergrad business program.</p>

<p>If you look at top 10, I think you'll find similar results.</p>

<p>Their engineering program is larger though. I remember alexander posting a link to I think notre-dame's school and another's and both were about 25% engineers.</p>

<p>Either way, no claim was made that engineering was an inferior method of gaining entry into b-school; rather, that undergrad business gets more flak than it deserves.</p>

<p>The only reason I'm pointing this out, is because I know some business undergrads from decent(not Wharton/Stern/Mich/etc.) programs that think they are king of the world in getting jobs and MBAs. Just laying out the facts that an undergrad business is much easier to complete than engineering major and that MBA programs still value engineering degree more.</p>

<p>But why not get best of both worlds and major/minor in engieering/business.</p>

<p>MBA programs do not value engineering more. I don't know where you're getting your information, but it's completely wrong. MBA programs don't value ANY major more. Since you're all knowing then you would realize that MBA programs don't really put much weight in the undergraduate school attended, but rather, the work experience obtained thereafter.</p>