We actually skipped many schools tours after doing a few since everyone’s chemistry building looks the same. But we did meet with professors or department people. We found this more helpful. Everyone’s rah , rah, session were similar also. Might be able to find a peer student to take her around in engineering. Maybe someone from WISE. https://lsa.umich.edu/wise/… Never hurts to ask.
FYI, finals start April 24. The campus should be desolate, either because everyone is studying or their finals are done and moved out. One of the benefits of UMich. 4 months of summer.
^^^^Thst is a huge benefit not to be taken lightly.
This is an update after we recently visited both UMich and NU. We are very impressed by the enormity of UMich CoE. The facilities and buildings demonstrate the huge investment by the university and their donors into CoE. Our tour also showcased the clubs solely for CoE clubs. I’m most grateful to the individual attention we received from UMich staff. I emailed the CoE financial aid office and academic advising to set up one-on-one meetings and they promptly accommodated us. Both staff patiently answered all our questions. The adviser took note of my daughter’s AP credits and gave her a rough 4-year study plan. Ann Arbor is a neat place with an eclectic collection of shops. However, the cold reality is that the scholarship UMich offers is strictly tethered to CoE. Even though it’s a big deal (100 out of 1400 freshmen or maybe 100 out of ~500 OOS students are awarded), it still gives us pause. Plus, the awarded amount is not adjusted to yearly (~4.5%) tuition increase. No additional funds are available for summer study abroad.
NU advising turned down my request for a personal meeting and instead directed us to the engineering school campus tour. It was an hour-long informational session mostly on their co-op program. We did manage to talk to a financial aid officer in person and it appeared that NU is rather generous and hands-off on awarding scholarship. They may even award additional study abroad aid for the summer quarter. And if tuition increases in the future while our income does not change, the financial aid may adjust accordingly (but sure there is a possibility that the reverse may occur). Other than maintaining satisfactory progress, there is no string attached to the financial aid.
After reading through NU online study plan and AP credits listing, it appears that D has had at least 11.68 units under her belt (I think. I wish that NU advising would talk to us). This is nearly equivalent to one year of course work in NU (12 units per year and 48 units for four years). In contrast, she would have had 16 credits in UMich, which is equivalent to one semester of course work (a total of 128 credits for 4 years).
D is still torn between these two programs although she is leaning towards NU mostly based on the financial aid and the fact that she could easily shorten one year (she is currently taking three more AP courses in her senior year that are not counted in yet) of study in NU. I’ve not compared the course work between NU and UMich closely so I don’t really know why that there is this discrepancy.
Do you qualify for financial aid at Michigan?
Also. https://ipe.engin.umich.edu/finances/
I just grabbed this from engineering study abroad. There are both departmental scholarships and scholarships through financial aid. They have been very helpful with my son going to France for an engineering study abroad this summer. I would reach out to them.
Keep in mind just because you get AP credit it might not shorten your time at either school unless you were told differently. As stated above you might get electives out of the way but some programs depend on other things to accomplish in order. Also there are many electives your child still might want to take.
My son’s a semester ahead now. But won’t 100% graduate earlier. As a second year junior he does get to pay junior tuition though :neutral:
What you stated about the two schools and others compared to Michigan has been our experience. They treat you like family. They will go out of their way to help you,in just about anyway they can. It’s not just a facade. We had the same issue with NW. Couldn’t get information out of them and we are from Chicago. Michigan emailed right back. Answered our questions and met with us on campus.
My son’s experience so far has been the same. Michigan will go out of their way to make your child successful. They will just have to initiate it.
I second that AP credits may not shorten the amount of time needed to graduate. My daughter started college as a second semester sophomore but because of course sequencing for her major, still needs 8 semesters to graduate. What it allows is more flexibility in scheduling, the ability to easily add minors (or at NU maybe even a double major), or take one less class/term.
My S is still deciding between Michigan and NU also. It is a very hard decision for him. He was admitted to Medill for journalism and Michigan does not have true journalism program. However his interest is wider than just journalism - wants a career in sports field - possibly management, analytics or jornalism. Loves the sports scene and overall vibe of Michigan - prefers that over Northwestern. But feels connections thru Medill for career in sports would be very strong. Not sure how he will decide.
“It’s not just a facade. We had the same issue with NW. Couldn’t get information out of them and we are from Chicago. Michigan emailed right back. Answered our questions and met with us on campus.”
You keep saying that you don’t want to get into a shinier object discussion but most if not all your posts disparage Northwestern and laud Michigan. It’s ok of course to do that, you can’t just claim to be this bastion of objectivity.
Anyway for engineering, I’d also go with Michigan, but the scholarship requirement for UM as others have noted could be a deal breaker. Otherwise I think UM is a pretty clear choice.
“He was admitted to Medill for journalism and Michigan does not have true journalism program.”
This is a little easier, there are probably two programs at Northwestern that are considered world-class, Kellogg is one, Medill is the other.
@theloniusmonk. Thanks for pointing that out but it “was” our experience also. Yea, I guess it’s hard to be 100% objective with my son in Michigan engineering and I see first hand the great things happening there.
But in other posts between these schools I do point out that they are more similar then dissimilar. Many students wished they had the OP problems of choosing between two world class universities. Not a bad problem to have if you ask me. As stated though if the scholarship is “only” for engineering then that might give me some pause. Having two in OOS college at the same time is not a fun as it might seem for us…lol.
@slb176 and @phoebehana4 - if $ is not a concern, Northwestern is a no brainer. I am stunned that any student / parent would struggle with this decision. The two options:
Northwestern, a top-tier private school (#10 ranked) that is significantly more selective with more resources and attention at the undergraduate level. SAT average close to 1500.
OR
UMichigan, a #28 flagship public university with 3-4x the number of students. It is less selective and less impressive. SAT average close to 1380-1400. Before the SAT was reentered a year ago, the difference between NU and Michigan was even more significant (closer to 150 point difference). The top schools (average SAT above 1450) saw their averages stay roughly flat (due to the rescaling) but schools with SAT averages less than 1400 (e.g., Michigan) saw their scores rise.
Compare the acceptance rates, test averages, rankings. 90+ out of 100 students with cross admits are choosing Northwestern over Michigan if $ is not a concern. 90%+ of UMichigan students could not get accepted to Northwestern or did not apply because they could not get in. I would easily pick Northwestern and not think twice about it. Why would anyone pay near the same price for Michigan over Northwestern? It legitimately makes no sense.
OK, I don’t understand this. Why would NU advising not meet with a prospective student? While I acknowledge I typically have a natural bias towards UMich in most cases, I did mention earlier to choose NU due to the UMich scholarship condition. And there’s also a bit more overall prestige with NU. At least out here in my neighborhood.
However, UMich advisors (general, math, pre-health), yes three of them, separately sat down with my kid for a couple hours and mapped out a plan for 4 years and also “gave” us 21 credits for AP classes, IIRC. A little more than a semester’s worth of credits.
The lack of a sitdown would give me pause, but I have to think that this is atypical of NU. Has to be.
Besides UMich having a #5 ranking (NU is #20) in engineering and having at least another 40 LSA programs in the Top 10 rankings, UMich has a better overall sports program. Most men’s and women’s teams compete at the highest level, whether it’s football, basketball, hockey, lacrosse, tennis, wrestling, etc. And the OP has indicated that his/her son loves sports.
For example, ESPN is projecting that the UMich football team will be playing in the College Football Playoff next season (2019-2020). NU is NOT projected to be in the Top 20:
If the OP loves sports, and the thrill of 111,000 fans packed into the Big House, then maybe that’s why the struggle.
@StanfordGSB00… I am biased as anyone (since it was pointed out to me) 
) but where do your stats come from?
Like more resources… In what? I don’t see a lack of resources at Michigan for anything.
At my son’s conference on Aumented /mixed reality 2 weeks ago I got to speak with a team of engineering students that made a prototype for NASA for a space suit. NASA commissioned Michigan to come up with the idea of using mixed reality as part of the space suit experience to make their daily tasks more efficient. I got to try it on and experience what these students came up with. Very cool and it’s at NASA as we speak.
I am sure we both can compare the great things happening on both campuses. Both schools with great Alumni. I know many kids that got rejected at Michigan that are at Northwestern and vice versa. I know many accepted to both that are at Michigan and of course vice versa.
@sushiritto I think two different posters asking about Mich v. NU are getting mixed up here. The OP’s daughter is looking at engineering, likes school spirit but hasn’t specifically said anything about sports other than OP saying college football isn’t a factor yet. Another poster has a son admitted to Mich and to Medill’s journalism school at NU - he’s the one who loves sports and would like a career in it. For him, it sounded like the factors were the terrific sports at Mich vs. the connections to sports journalists from Medill. NU has some excellent sports teams, but not at Mich’s level. But many top sports journalists are Medill alumni, so there are pros and cons.
OP, you mentioned summer aid for study abroad. NU also has an undergraduate research grant for summer, that students apply for, and large numbers receive: http://undergradresearch.northwestern.edu/summerurg (see http://undergradresearch.northwestern.edu/2018-summer-undergraduate-research-grant-winners for the long list of last year’s winners).
The quarter system at NU means that students take more classes than in a semester system, and so many students double major or double minor. The AP credits make that very doable in four years, if that’s something OP’s daughter might consider doing. https://www.mccormick.northwestern.edu/applied-math/undergraduate/dual-majors.html
For me, this would come down to whether OP’s daughter is certain that she wants to study engineering, since the Mich scholarship is tied to the CoE, and whether OP can comfortably afford Michigan if OP’s daughter changes her mind about her field of study.
@Genevieve18 You’re right. My apologies to everyone including the OP. My confusion. My bad.
Forget the football comment, but I’m still put-off by NU advising not making time for the OP.'s kid.
FWIW, my UMich has planned a major and two minors in 4 years. However, not in engineering.
I am surprised that advising didn’t make time. Wonder if there were too many admitted students trying to meet, due to Wildcat Days.
Correct - his decision is not just based on rankings. It will be mostly based on overall fit. Personally, I think he will get great education at either school
And no worries, @sushiritto - easy to get it mixed up as there are questions being raised about two different students.
@slb176 I agree that your son would get a great education at either! and each have different advantages for him. Makes it harder to choose, but the good thing is there’s no bad choice.
We went to Wildcat Day recently and while impressed with Medill, he felt there was overall a feeling of stress among students and he did not feel that at Michigan. Kids at Michigan seemed very happy.
@slb176 - the students in a regular English Literature or U.S. History course in high school are probably A LOT happier than the students in AP English or AP U.S. History. Which course will provide the better education / future opportunities?
I disagree completely - Michigan is a very well respected School with high caliber students. I do not agree with your comments at all