Looking at the threads for USNWR on university and college ranking… does ranking really matter for an ABET accredited engineering program? What is the difference between a school ranked at 100 for engineering and 60 for instance? Does going to a school that has less of a cache’ or prestige matter… especially since the classes under grad students have to take are all the same. If a student could get into a top 25 program is that substantially better? And why? Most of the big Universities have research, resources etc. So, what is a student missing if they do not go to a top tier school?
The differences within the rankings may relate to breadth. If you were to compare a highly ranked program (RHIT) to a more modestly ranked school (Harvard), you will see variance with respect to this:
Engineering Related Majors
Rose-Hulman
Biomedical Engineering
Chemical Engineering
Civil Engineering
Computer Engineering
Electrical Engineering
Mechanical Engineering
Optical Engineering
Software Engineering
Engineering Physics
Harvard
Biomedical Engineering
Electrical Engineering
Mechanical Engineering
Engineering Sciences
As with other rankings, the emphasis you place on them shoud depend on a variety of factors.
Missing? Little/nothing.
Rankings for eng’g are essentially worthless. Companies don’t pay more.
This country needs thousands and thousands of engineers, therefore each state has a vested interest in having good eng’g programs. Many/most states have 5-10+ very good programs! In fact, the state of Calif alone has over 25 good programs.
When one state alone has that many very good programs, how can a national ranking really mean much???
If you got to an ABET accredited program you should be fine. there are many other components to picking a school that is affordable and a good fit for you.
@merc81 I agree that some engineering programs are not ranked as high because of offerings. However, one of the schools we are looking at is a state flagship (not our state)… lots of opportunity within engineering, great scholarship etc. but is not even ranked in the top 100. Whereas, in our state, we have several top 20 engineering schools (very competitive) but also have several top 75 engineering programs at the private universities (not as much breadth within the program, newer etc.) why are they ranked so much higher than the 100+ state flagship that has been around for 100 years?
Our family has saved/planned for college so if our kid wanted to go to an expensive private she could do that, but having a generous scholarship would be nice. We are really trying to figure out at what point it matters. I understand @mom2collegekids point about some states having an abundance of great programs… but it still does not answer the question. I can see that a school ranked number 30 vs a school ranked number 45 might not make a difference… but what about #75 vs #110? And what do those 25+ California programs have going for them that other schools/states do not? Education is more than just the monetary cost it is 4-5 years of time and investment in the program. Getting a job is important at the end of the process but just employment is not the only consideration imo.
OP what state are you in, and what are your stats? What field in engineering do you want to study, and are you a senior?
Some can possibly give you some tailored information to help you in your situation.
ABET accreditation is important.
Visiting the school/program that is financially feasible to see what kind of opportunities could be there FOR YOU. For example, DD’s college has research opportunities, other honors programs; students can do well with obtaining internships and Co-op opportunities (DD found intern jobs w/o school help, which could be done with knowing where and how to look).
In engineering/CS, having work experience or project experience that an employer is looking for is very helpful to getting a job at the end of the process. Some employers only interview/hire their own Co-op students.
@SOSConcern ACT 32C math and science 34… mechanical engineering high school does not rank but mostly A’s, a couple of B’s and AP, honors classes for the most part. All of the schools we are looking at are ABET accredited. We really like the school offering lots of merit aid… but… it is not ranked in the top 100. Most likely our d will get into one of the state schools engineering (no merit aid) or one of the private top 75 schools. Money is not driving the decision opportunity and future goals… like grad school etc. are definitely important.
First, what kind of student is your daughter? For my oldest, college apps were stressful. I didn’t want to add more or have classmates that were cutthroat, so I not so gently urged him to nix schools like our flagship Penn State because it doesn’t admit until junior year.
Forget rankings. Too much is based on peer perception.
Can a freshman do research?
If the school has all the bells and whistles of latest equipment, can an undergraduate use it?
My oldest opted for a lower ranked with merit. He took advantage of research, co-op, internship.
At the higher ranked engineering universities, recruiting is better , there are more research opportunities, and student projects tend to be a lot more interesting. There is also usually more entrepreneurial activity with access to incubators and angel investors. As other have mentioned, there tends to be more choices of engineering specialty as well.
Both engineering and non-engineering (usually consultants and financial service firms) recruit at the top universities. Some corporations have expedited interview processes for graduates of those same top schools. Your daughter may find a more interesting career that way.
Quality of teaching can vary a lot, some of the lower ranked unis have better undergraduate teaching because of their focus there.
I would only consider programs that are ABET accredited. There is a pretty significant between #5 and #60, but not much between #60 and #70.
You will have to make a qualitative decision based on the factors most important to you. My son chose a top 10 (in-state) over several other choices with merit.
this is such a tricky issue because i continually waver back and forth between “take the free money because ABET is all that really matters” and “shoot for the higher ranked schools because the recruiting and opportunities are better”
As always, just my opinion…
ABET may or may not be important, depending on your area of interest. Civil engineering, most definitely. Others, maybe not. Keep in mind, schools are not ABET certified…their individual degree programs are. Even Stanford, as an example, only has 3 of its many engineering degree programs with ABET certification. I doubt graduates in the non-ABET engineering programs at Stanford are struggling to advance their careers. Whether or not you need ABET really depends on what you plan to do with your degree.
As far as your original question…rankings are only one factor. You should consider them, but not just the school overall or its overall engineering ranking. Instead, look at the rankings of the individual discipline in which you are interested (civil, mechanical, industrial, etc.). On average, the highest ranked schools do seem to open more doors for graduates. That said, I tend to agree there probably isn’t a dramatic difference between rankings such as 60 and 100.
Moreover, when comparing engineering programs, it can be very helpful if you have a more exact area of interest (which is not often the case for young people). Even large and respected engineering programs tend to have primary focus areas (and their success in these areas tend to drive their rankings to some extent). So, just as an example, if you are particularly interested in artificial limb engineering, that might direct you to some schools (who do a lot of work and research in this area) over others (that do none at all).
IMO, the deciding factor should always be your personal fit with the institution. Can you see yourself there, enjoying 4 years, and succeeding? Good luck! Try and enjoy this exciting time.
My HS senior prioritized her selections by program concentrations. She’s known she wants to go into EE with a focus in renewable energy since 9th grade (her HS has an engineering program). We only look at ABET accredited programs and prefer schools that list a specific concentration or focus (can have different names) in her area. For schools that don’t list any focus areas, we look at the research facilities and whether any professors are doing research in her area.
Whether or not rankings matter depends on how much your priorities match with what the rankings look at. I like payscale.com because the salary numbers are objective. If you look at the specific school profiles you get more numbers that are helpful like ROI and graduation rate. Percent of students employed in their field (or in grad school) is important too, but I don’t think payscale shows that.
http://www.payscale.com/college-salary-report/best-schools-by-majors/engineering
I agree that students will be more heavily recruited (and from a wider geographic area) if the school is higher ranked or more prestigious. But engineers don’t need to be recruited to find great jobs across the country.
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Forget rankings. Too much is based on peer perception.
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Exactly! People think that the ranking is based on…which schools have the best instruction. No. That’s only about 40% of the rubric.
You’re agonizing over essentially nothing.
Imagine that you have 300 relatives…some you know better than others. All are good people…no arrests, no addictions, good personalities, honest, hard working professionals with nice homes and healthy financial assets. Now, some people are asked to rank each of those relatives.
Is Relative #15 really that much better than Relative 75 or 150? Probably not. Maybe more of the judges “know” #15, and they hardly know #75 or #150. Maybe Relative 10 has a bigger savings acct. Maybe Relative 15 has an Olympic-sized swimming pool while Relative 150 has a normal sized one. Maybe Relative 200 isn’t a snazzy dresser, while Relative #40 is famous for her stilettos. Maybe Relative 10 has had a face-lift, while Relative 190 is getting one next year.
And, remember, they’re all great folks with the above-mentioned good traits, etc.
But, because of nature of ranking, someone has to come in last… Lol
Seriously, this country, and each state, has a vested interest in having many, many, many, many very good eng’g programs…because we need engineers.
What state are you in?
OP, if you haven’t heard or thought about University of Alabama, it may be worth doing a quick application, and also maybe getting a visit in. Here is some relevant information. My DD is a junior engineering student on Presidential and Engineering Scholarships (which your student is eligible for automatically, I am assuming her GPA is 3.5 or better, weighted or unweighted) - would need to meet the scholarship/application deadline which I believe is Dec 1:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KrV8g7kxJps understand how UA has gotten to be where they are now
UA has updated its Quick Facts http://viewbook.ua.edu/quick-facts/
(2014 enrollment breakdown by state - new undergraduates - which would be freshmen for the most part): http://oira.ua.edu/d/webreports/enrollment2/Fall_2014/f18.html
http://oira.ua.edu/d/webreports/enrollment2/Fall_2015/e10.html
This URL gives FALL 2015 data for all of the university (not just freshmen).
http://oira.ua.edu/d/webreports/enrollment2/Fall_2016/front
http://eng.ua.edu/undergraduate/scholarships/
A ME student that is in DD’s class has co-oped with an employer that has current co-ops earning $72,000 starting salary (after degree) with the company. That is a bit high, and very selective company of course. Don’t have to graduate from MIT to have a great engineering career…
I know both DD’s internship companies would have her hire in above avg starting salary for her field. She is in the STEM MBA program, so if continuing as planned, will finish her MBA in 5th year. She will very much improve her career with that. One company is the leader in their state; the other is a large international company which is pretty darn selective with their interns, and their professional hires.
sorry post later, keyboard whacky.
I will go against the prevailing thought in this thread and say at some point there is a difference between ABET accredited programs. Does anyone really think you’ll get the same education at CSU Los Angeles as you would at UCLA, both having ABET accredited MechE programs?
@SOSConcern we live in the South and Alabama is definitely an option, great merit aid, beautiful campus etc. But, my girl is a top student and is having a really hard time with the whole rankings business. I am sure UA, West Virginia U, Tulane etc. have wonderful engineering programs. And if they were closer to #50 or so it would not even be a thought. That is why I posted the original thread… she is really trying to justify why the ranking does not matter. Yes, the world needs more engineers and once she graduates I am sure she will have job options no matter what school she ultimately chooses. But, if she were to go to a top 20-50 engineering school, but not get any merit aid, is this a better option than a full tuition offer from a school that is much further down the list.
For my DS - we have been to see a number (maybe 10) programs and labs/facilities. He is into CS & EE (and IT and cybersecurity, robotics, etc) - and in addition to trying to get a sense of faculty and approach to teaching, research and curriculum options and depth, he wants to look closely at their equipment, labs and student tools (hardware & software). We have been to places where he has been very impressed - “this is like being a kid in a candy store” where students got parts out of vending machines and had fully stocked labs with top line equipment to work with to “the equipment is rather old, not nearly as sophisticated as at some other places, rather basic”. So I guess if kids can “kick the tires” so to speak that could be helpful. I think class size, whether doing a range of cutting edge research and how attracted industry is to the grads is also relevant - are they getting the various skills they need - including those all important “soft skills” - again emphasized at some schools more than others.
@youcee please explain the difference in education between the two.
@cheetahgirl121 : If the premise, for the moment, can be said to be that rankings do indicate relevant attributes, then an important aspect to evaluate would be the shape of the distribution curve. In the case of an undergraduate “engineering programs” ranking I have in front of me, the first-ranked program shows a score of 4.4 (on a 1-5 scale) and the 22nd program shows a 3.2. These schools, with a separation of 1.2 points, can reasonably be regarded as statistically dissimilar. However, when the 22nd school is compared to the 46th school (score: 2.8) the separation of .4 points appears to be nearly de minimus. For whichever ranking you have been using, you can perform a comparable analysis – across whichever range applies to the schools under consideration – which may then better inform your daughter’s decision.
The above said, if your daughter would qualify for a meaningful merit scholarship at a school such as RPI, for example, she might find herself in position to make a no-compromise decision.