Engineering standardized testing

Colleges and Universities A-Z Cornell University
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<p>Hey guys, </p>

<p>First off, congratulations to everyone who was accepted ED! To those deferred, I know how it feels -- I was deferred from Penn (at least we still have a chance). To those rejected, think of it this way: if you were motivated enough to apply to Cornell, I'm sure all of you have equal or more motivation to succeed in the real world. When you applied, you were asking Cornell, "Is this where I will succeed?" And their response was simply, "Nope, over there!" Don't take the rejection too strongly as it does not indicate, in any way, your worth as an intellectual or human being, just that you weren't as fit for the university as you thought you were.</p>

<p>Anyway, I was just wondering if the SAT I/II are big factors in admission to COE.</p>

<p>I have a 1400 (670CR and 730 math), 760 math II, and 710 physics, but I studied for none of these. In retrospect, I know it was stupid of me not to study, but in short, I am extremely averse to the whole standardized testing policy and procedure. I think that if these tests are meant to measure aptitude, or natural ability to do something, then studying biases what they are meant to measure. It's become a test of who studies more and who pays more money for tutors and preparation materials.</p>

<p>Are these scores high enough for Cornell Engineering? Also, I'm Asian...</p>

<p>I'd love all of your opinions.</p>

<p>Thanks in advance!</p>

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<p>I’m pretty sure engineering is big on standardized testing, especially the math portions of the SAT. I was admitted and I got an 800 on Math, a 780 in Math II and a 710 in Physics (although I got a 5 on the physics B exam). Considering your scores, they fall around Cornell’s average, although engineering is probably higher.</p>

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<p>Looking at stats, the math scores are definitely on the lower end.
<a href=“http://dpb.cornell.edu/documents/1000176.pdf#zoom=100[/url]”>http://dpb.cornell.edu/documents/1000176.pdf#zoom=100&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>Engineering 25% is 730, and being Asian is definitely no boost either… The math II I’m not sure of, but I’m guessing it’s similar or a bit higher due to the curve. I don’t think your aversion to the system is going to be viewed as a justification, so I’d recommend you either write really good essays, or hope for the best!
You still have a great shot though, remember, 1 in 4 kids get in with a math score at your exact number!!!</p>

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<p>Can you guys tell me if I have a chance.
Top 5% in my class (I can’t vouch for the competitiveness of my school compared to others but I’d say pretty)
33 ACT with 34 math and English, 32 Science and 30 Reading.
SAT II- 800 Math II, 720 Chemistry
EC’s-
Trombone since 5th grade- Area Honors band all through school (6 years), pA All State Lions Band- 1 Year
Played School Baseball 2 Years
Member of all sorts of group, blah, blah
150 Hours volunteering at Hospital
I can’t think of much else.
Chances?</p>

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<p>Weighted GPA is like 4.3 and 3.8 or so unweighted. Sorry for double post.</p>

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<p>@ Normally if you are an ORM you would place u would be expected to place within the top 25 %tile in the school to get a fair chance. lao, if ur a girl, u would be be kind of alright. It’s a bit under expectations but it’s not significantly bad. If ur a boy… good luck.
@ Taylor, you have a fair chance. Start a new thread next time.</p>

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<p>False. What the stats on that page actually mean is that 25% (1 in 4) of the enrollees to the engineering school have an SAT math score of 730 or below. What you said is much different.</p>

<p>@OP. Sorry. Those scores are low, especially low for the engineering school. Being Asian will make your scores look worse. Not too good of a chance just based on what you posted. </p>

<p>I find it funny how so many people chance stats like the OP’s as decent or “you have a great shot” or “just write a good essay”. If someone (esp. an Asian) with a 730/670 and a 760 Math II (given the ridiculous curve) has a “great shot” at Cornell’s engineering school, I really fear for the future of Cornell. No offense to the OP. I’m just tired of people giving false hope…or do they actually believe that these guys have good chances.</p>

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<p>^@wave
Yeah i have many friends who had much higher scores with decent ecs and didn’t get in. Remember that scores are only part of the game and to actually get a good chance w/ score alone u need to be significantly, significantly above everyone else. Even then admissions is not guaranteed, especially for an ORM (asian).</p>

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<p>@wavedasher</p>

<p>I have won international music competitions, gotten 2nd at states in swimming. I am president of 4 clubs, my compositions were performed by my school orchestra. I am top 3% in my class from a school that normally sends 15-20% of the graduating class to top 30 universities and LACs. My essays were well written as well as my recommendations.</p>

<p>I really fear for the future of Cornell if they would reject an applicant with very strong extra-curriculars, leadership, high GPA, high class rank, and good essays and recommendations because of one four-hour test. I am clearly within the middle 50% for both the math and the reading portions.</p>

<p>I really hope you’re kidding when you say

because I got into Michigan Engineering. And just because I know you will say that Michigan is a much easier school to get into, their median SAT score for engineering is 1410 (mine is a 1400, just as a reminder) and their median accepted GPA is 3.9 (mine is a 3.83). I am also an out of state Asian.</p>

<p>I was deferred from Penn’s M&T program (they only accept 50 kids a year). Of the 4,500+ applicants to Penn, I was amongst the top 2,000 (one of the 800 defers, compared to last year’s 1,100+). I am clearly a qualified applicant for one of the most difficult programs in the country to gain acceptance to (most people who are accepted have 2300+, by the way, and even more 2300+ are rejected). What makes you think that I am not qualified for Cornell Engineering?</p>

<p>Essays, extra-curriculars, GPA, course rigor, and recommendations collectively weigh more than standardized test scores (I would hope so at least, especially at a school like Cornell). </p>

<p>Please don’t be so arrogant and ignorant next time. Save yourself the embarrassment.</p>

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<p>We are doing exactly what you wanted us to do : evaluate your test scores. You did not give us the other parts of your application (GPA, ECs, etc.) Why are you so bent on defending yourself when we simply did what we could with the information you gave us? You did not give us those other statistics and did not ask us for chances. We were simply stating the fact that these scores are low for the engineering school. </p>

<p>“And just because I know you will say that Michigan is a much easier school to get into, their median SAT score for engineering is 1410 (mine is a 1400, just as a reminder) and their median accepted GPA is 3.9. I am also an out of state Asian.”</p>

<p>What do you want us to do, say you have great chances now than before because you got in Michigan? What does that have to do with anything? I hope you didn’t put “I got accepted to michigan” as part of your college app - it doesn’t help you get in any other school. If you have common sense and did not do that, then you aren’t really asking us for chances in this post, you are asking us to praise you so that you can feel better and be more reassured ur going into a top school. We don’t work at admissions, and whatever we say would have no effect on your application. </p>

<p>Remember, getting into one college does not affect the chance of another.</p>

<p>“I really fear for the future of Cornell if they would reject an applicant with very strong extra-curriculars, leadership, high GPA, high class rank, and good essays and recommendations because of one four-hour test. I am clearly within the middle 50% for both the math and the reading portions.”</p>

<p>… No you don’t “fear for the future of Cornell”. You sound like an pathetic, arrogant snob of a high school student who sees himself as others see him. Your success isn’t dependent on what we say, I hope you realize that. I would really hate to have a student in my school who has such a complex and would say something demeaning like that to both himself and his school. </p>

<p>As you said too, SAT isn’t everything. Cornell rejects many kids with 2300s and takes many 2100s every year. I’ve seen it happen in my school and many other schools. What makes us say your chances don’t seem very auspicious is because you ONLY gave us ur SAT scores and ur ethnicity, little of anything else. And as I said before, it is simply because you are an ORM that being in the middle 50%tile would hurt you because the >75 %tile is the 50 %tile for ORMs. Stop bullcrapping us please. If you think that a school cannot be successful because they reject an applicant like you, you are very, very wrong.
Many qualified kids are rejected every year from top schools. It is a common occurrence. Realize that when you are a college applicant, it is you who needs to get into college, not the college that needs you.</p>

<p>“Please don’t be so arrogant and ignorant next time. Save yourself the embarrassment.”
Pot calling the kettle black?..</p>

<p>And FYI, spreading yourself thin over many different clubs like that instead of focusing on 2-3 things that you have a passion for is not a good idea. It shows you off as a person who simply does things in order to get into college. Frankly, they don’t want this type of applicant.</p>

<p>I’ll say it once again. You asked us about your standardized test scores in comparison to others like you who are applying to engineering. It is still rather low. Getting into michigan state and having other achievements in high school does not chance your test scores. It is still rather low.</p>

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<p>Yes, Colene, I did not ask for chances.</p>

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<p>That sounds like a chance to me.</p>

<p>Furthermore, while all college acceptances are independent, the acceptance into certain college does reflect a certain level of qualification in most circumstances (non-hooked). I was not looking for any praise, but simply “Are these scores high enough for Cornell Engineering?” given that I am Asian. A simple, “Most Asians at Cornell engineering score higher than you do,” would have sufficed. Instead, I was told that I do not have a good chance at admission. </p>

<p>In what way do I sound like a pathetic, arrogant snob? That quotation was a general statement. No applicant with strengths in every field of the application should face rejection because of one test. I am entirely aware that success is self-defined. In fact, I had a discussion in one of my clubs (that you just accused me of not having a passion for) about what success is. Realize that college admissions is literally ALL about how others see me, so I would argue that while applying to college, it would be wise to see oneself as others see him.</p>

<p>You seem to be very confused about the purpose of my post. I did NOT say that a school like Cornell could not be successful for rejecting an applicant like me. Rather that if a school like Cornell rejects applicants who demonstrate passion, curiosity, motivation, and talent simply because of a slightly lower standardized test score, then the school is clearly misguided. </p>

<p>Also,

Please tell me what kind of top college thrives off less than stellar applicants and students. I’m truly curious.</p>

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<p>Why don’t you learn to read better? That might actually come in handy when you’re sitting for tests. First, I clearly stated that your chances are low BASED ON WHAT YOU POSTED - which were just your SAT scores. </p>

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<p>You clearly don’t know how to read. Do you know what percentiles are? I even explained it. How is a 730 “clearly” in the middle of the SAT range? Last time I checked, that was the 25th percentile. Not to mention you being Asian means it will hurt more.</p>

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<p>Stop twisting what I said around. You didn’t even quote me properly. I said that your scores are low for THE engineering school, meaning Cornell’s (and other peer schools). Changing “the” to “an” makes a world of difference; maybe that would also explain your scores.</p>

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<p>What was the point of this again?</p>

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<p>Based on what you posted in your first post, you aren’t qualified.</p>

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<p>Of course they do. Next time, why don’t you list those out from the start.</p>

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<p>Embarrassment? You’re the one being humiliated here. You twist my words, misinterpret others, then list out all these other stats that I didn’t evaluate you on after my evaluation. I’m sorry that I can’t spoon feed all the “amazing” things you wanted to hear, but if you can’t take criticism, stop asking questions. You asked to have your scores evaluated, and I gave my honest opinion, which most people would agree on - they’re nothing special, and bad for an Asian applicant to Cornell’s engineering school. Why don’t you grow up. Your post really showed your immaturity and arrogant nature.</p>

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<p>@lao
tl;dr, have to go and look @ this again later but</p>

<p>"Please tell me what kind of top college thrives off less than stellar applicants and students. I’m truly curious. "
They don’t. However they can reject you without having it be their loss because there are many more students just as stellar as you than number of spots that the top schools have. Realize that you are replaceable.</p>

<p>And whatever that chancing quote was i didn’t say it.</p>

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<p>@wavedasher</p>

<p>I asked for a yes or no answer, not a chance. This was ** not ** a chance thread.</p>

<p>Yes, I do know what percentiles are. It is “clearly” in the middle 50% because it IS in the middle 50%, and has been since forever. Being Asian does NOT change that fact.</p>

<p>I apologize. I do not know how that happened because I remember copy+pasting your exact words. Even still, refer to my previous point.</p>

<p>Refer to my previous post.</p>

<p>No, because 25% of students in the engineering school had lower math scores, and more than that had lower reading scores. </p>

<p>Because this wasn’t a chance thread.</p>

<p>Again, I apologize for the non-deliberate misquote. How did I misinterpret you? I listed those stats to show that some applicants with scores on the lower end can still have a good shot. But in the end, no one truly has a good shot at a school like Cornell. </p>

<p>I wanted to hear your opinion about my test scores, yes, but you gave me more than I wanted to hear.</p>

<p>Anyway, I’m done here. I’ve finished applying to all my colleges and see no use in wasting my time arguing this.</p>

<p>edit: @colene
I disagree. I think each applicant offers something unique. No one is “replaceable.”</p>

<p>Also, it was University of Michigan, just to clarify.</p>

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<p>… Ok whatever happened happened. Please be more specific with your question if u wanted a specific answer.</p>

<p>Anyways if u argue from a humanitarian pov everyone is unique. But for colleges, college applicants are replaceable. People get rejected.</p>

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<p>

To respond to this question, no.
Yes, you’re above the 25th percentile. Congrats. Good for you for swimming really well. I’m sure that’ll make you a better engineer. The point is that because you’re at the low end of the spectrum, you have to assume that the scores aren’t good enough. The 760 on the math 2 is particularly low given the curve.
Also, if you are accepted, do you plan to study for exams here? I mean they’re supposed to be tests of ability right?</p>