Engineering to PhD programs and beyond

<p>So, I'm a rising high school senior and I've been sure about pursuing engineering as a career for a long time. I've planned to major in either Aerospace Engineering or Mechanical Engineering, and then pursue a PhD related to spacecraft engineering of some sort, as I'm most interested in working in R&D. Recently though, I've been thinking I might like to be a college professor, in either engineering, physics, or math. </p>

<p>Either way I'll end up getting a PhD (unless I really received a job offer I couldn't refuse after finishing my BS), and either way I'm sure I'll major in Aerospace/Mechanical Engineering. I'm really unable to decide between these two career paths at this point though, as I have no experience doing either of these things. I'm on a high school robotics team, and have tutored as well, but I've never conducted research/held an internship at an engineering company/been a TA/done real higher-division math, physics, or engineering. I'd have to make the choice of what I really want to do, then, after I've tried some of these things in college.</p>

<p>My question is: Would it be possible to pursue a PhD in Math or Physics with an undergraduate Engineering degree, or is it necessary to double major to keep that door open? If so, is double-majoring realistically possible with engineering?</p>

<p>Thanks!</p>

<p>Recommended preparation for PhD programs in math and physics:
[PhD</a> Program | Department of Mathematics at University of California Berkeley](<a href=“http://math.berkeley.edu/programs/graduate/phd-program]PhD”>PhD Program | Department of Mathematics at University of California Berkeley)
<a href=“http://physics.berkeley.edu/academics/grad/GA11_GradProgram.pdf[/url]”>http://physics.berkeley.edu/academics/grad/GA11_GradProgram.pdf&lt;/a&gt; (page 4)</p>

<p>While some upper division mechanical engineering courses may be similar to some upper division physics courses (advanced mechanics and thermodynamics), there will be a significant number of math or physics major courses needed to prepare for the respective PhD programs that are not covered by a mechanical engineering major.</p>

<p>However, if you follow the first two years of mechanical engineering major courses, you should be able to switch your major to physics or math by junior year, since the first two years of mechanical engineering should include the same lower division physics and math courses.</p>

<p>I think you’re really jumping ahead here. I was the same as you in high school in that I already had it decided that I wanted to get a PhD. However, go one step at a time. Think of what you want to do… spacecraft engineering. So in this case I would recommend Aerospace Engineering for this. Get some experience with research and then decide if you want a PhD. Also, double majoring in engineering is possible but would most certainly be difficult. I have a friend who double majored in CS and ChemE, which typically are considered two very independent majors. I’ve also had an EE/ChemE friend… so it’s certainly possible.</p>

<p>Moral of the story: Think of your bachelor’s before jumping ahead to a PhD… if anything you should be thinking about if you want to do an MS or professional masters before PhD work.</p>

<p>Best of luck in your pursuit! For the record, I’m a BS ChemE and Masters of EnvE… so I do have experience in what engineering entails. A lot of work!</p>

<p>Many schools don’t offer Aero as an undergraduate degree, but offer it as a concentration within the MechE department. I think a lot of the real nuts and bolts stuff of Aero is covered in a graduate degree, anyway, so getting a BS in Aero probably just means you had a bit less freedom in your course choices than the typical MechE has.</p>

<p>Making the switch to pure physics and math would be very difficult at the PhD level if you were an engineer as an undergrad. There’s nothing saying you couldn’t do the same research (applied physics or applied math, at least) within an Aero or MechE department. Most research groups in engineering are cross-disciplinary, and will take students from a variety of backgrounds, since part of the point of a PhD is the ability to teach yourself needed skills to fully understand something.</p>

<p>Materials Science or Engineering is also a reasonable place to go for a combination of physics, chemistry, and engineering.</p>

<p>However, responding to your first question. Yes it is possible for an engineering major to move into a physics Ph.D. program. We have had a number of them in our program at IIT. however, there are courses to make up depending on whether you have a EE or ME degree. It may take a few extra courses.</p>

<p>Thank you all for your responses, they’ve been very informative and helpful.</p>

<p>Some thoughts in response:

  • It’s good to know I have until Junior year to make a final decision, that will give me another 3 years of experiences with these disciplines that will hopefully make one option clear.
  • I’m glad to hear double majoring is doable for an engineer. Could it be done within four years, or would it take extra time?
  • I’m not too sure about a Master’s degree. One of the major appeals of a PhD is the ability to further my education, specialize, and pursue research opportunities at little to no cost, while a MS (as far as I know) would be relatively expensive. I understand I might be getting a bit ahead of myself, but I like to plan for the future so I can make sure I don’t miss out on any opportunities!
  • I think a Mechanical Engineering degree with an Aerospace minor/concentration might be ideal, and this was actually my plan if I manage to get accepted to my top choice school (Caltech).
  • Materials Science sounds interesting, if I really enjoy some lower-level materials classes I might have to look into it, thanks.</p>

<p>Some other questions I have now:

  • What does everyone think of Engineering Physics? Would this offer me more options for grad school or is choosing one or the other discipline a better option?
  • What’s the general route to becoming an engineering professor? Do most professors begin teaching immediately after grad school, or move to teaching after working in the industry for a while? Do these professors have as much research freedom as pure science teachers? I’ve enjoyed teaching other students and think I might like to get into academia at some point, but I’m not too sure of anything at this stage.</p>

<p>Thanks again for all the help, I really appreciate all the input from everyone!</p>

<p>I’m an engineering physics major concentrating in computer science. EP is the hardest major. That’s what everybody tells me. Physics majors say my major is harder, engineering majors say my major is harder, math majors, cs majors, etc., all say the same thing.</p>

<p>It’s tough. We have more hard material to study than regular engineering majors, and we have more project-like work than other physics majors. I’d say most of the smartest physics undergrads I run into (I’m basing this on their grades and presence in honors classes, participation in UG research, scholarships, etc.) are engineering physics majors, not straight physics majors. And like many other EP majors, I plan to go to grad school for a PhD in physics (graduate next May, I almost can’t believe it).</p>

<p>I can heartily recommend EP as a precursor to physics grad school or a job in engineering. If you want to get a job after your BS instead of going to grad school, concentrate on internships and projects. If you want to go to grad school, concentrate on undergraduate research and more math and physics classes (at my school we have a lot of leeway in how much physics/engineering to take to get our degree and even which engineering classes to meet our engineering requirements).</p>

<p>As far as the route to becoming a professor, here is my advice: don’t expect to become one. I’m certainly not expecting to become a professor of physics (though I don’t think I’d mind). Get a PhD because you <em>want</em> to, not because you expect some reward afterwards. Professorships are rare because turnover is low (you are essentially waiting for professors to die so a position can open up), and the supply of people with a PhD is way higher than you might think (ignore what the media says about a scientist/engineer shortage in America, it’s a myth drummed up by businesses to ease immigration law and get the government to subsidize STEM education) so there are like 200 applicants for every open tenure-track position even at lame colleges in crappy towns. That’s to say nothing of the huge number of qualified immigrant PhDs who really don’t mind going through the process of becoming a professor because they are used to a lower standard of material living.</p>

<p>But let’s assume you are one of those people who will win the lottery and become a professor. Here is how it goes:</p>

<p>1) Get your PhD
2) Get a post-doctoral position (“post-doc”) either at a research institution, government lab, university, etc., which usually involves doing research (not your own, helping somebody else) and possibly some teaching. The post-doc position could also be straight teaching, as a “lecturer” or “adjunct teacher” or some similar title.
3) Move from that position to assistant professor, then to associate professor, then to professor.</p>

<p>I just described a dream scenario that happens to people who are very fortunate. Many people hope in vain for a professorship to open up and stay on the “post-doc treadmill” for a decade or more, moving from state to state, wherever post-docs they are qualified for open up. It may be two or three post-doc positions before you reach assistant professor status. If you get advice on becoming a professor from actual professors, remember that you’re talking to the fortunate few, AND that depending on their age they may have become professors during the great professor boom of the post-war period.</p>

<p>After WW2, and especially after Sputnik, there was explosive growth in the number of people going to college and universities were being created or expanded all over the country. Professorships opened up like mango worm holes on a Ghanaian dog (look it up). But in the past thirty or so years, hiring has been flat. With the birth rate actually going down, fewer people will be going to college and if anything demand for professors in America will probably fall.</p>

<p>But hey, I’m not letting any of this stop my plans.</p>

<p>I should add that my comments reflect what I know about physics professorships (well, all physical sciences probably), but a lot of it goes for engineering as well.</p>

<p>The big difference between science and engineering at the research level is who pays for research. Many engineering professors are funded by companies, whereas scientists have to pathetically beg from the government for a seemingly fixed-sized pie. So the funding situation isn’t nearly as dire and for engineering professors it’s a lot more common for them to have worked in private industry first (some post-docs can be done in private industry, r&d does still exist, the professor I did research under was at IBM before becoming a physics professor).</p>