Waterloo?
Good call. Waterloo, McGill, and UBC are all good Canadian options that might not feel as large as Toronto.
“Totally understand what you’re saying. I’m in sort of an unusual situation though-- since I’m Canadian, US schools are very expensive and as I already have U of T, my parents have a “top program or bust” mentality.”
To me it makes a lot of sense that if you are a Canadian who has already been accepted to the University of Toronto, then nothing in the US lower ranked than Cornell or Mudd would be worth the price. It would seem to depend upon your families finances whether even Cornell would be worth the price difference.
“I do prefer smaller class sizes,”
I am pretty sure that Toronto is the largest university in Canada. I do wonder whether you should consider smaller universities in Canada. While Waterloo and McGill and UBC are not small, they are significantly smaller than Toronto. Past these three there would seem to be a tradeoff between ranking and size, with somewhere like Dalhousie being a good school that is a lot smaller than Toronto but not as highly ranked.
Waterloo is a big feeder to Silicon Valley, no?
@OHMomof2 By wider alumni network, I meant that there are more alumni obviously in finance from Cornell than Mudd… I still am not sure if I want to go into tech or finance so that could be helpful. I do agree there are more students looking to leverage that network, though. Yes, Waterloo is but only for CS. Toronto’s better for engineering.
@boneh3ad Maybe I’m just being picky, but I’d much rather not go to UBC because it’s only 5 mins from where I live, I’d rather go to university in a new region. Waterloo is really only good for CS and Math, I’m pretty sure that U of T is better for engineering. Size might be better at Waterloo but to be honest my parents would rather me just go to Toronto.
@DadTwoGirls Agree with what you’ve said… I personally think Toronto is better than Waterloo for engineering (Waterloo’s mainly known for CS and Math), though I’ll take a look at it. I’d prefer not going to UBC since I live like 5 mins away…
@boneh3ad The only reason I’m fixated on privates is that because apart from somewhere like Berkeley, there’s no point in me paying over 60k a year for a “top” US public (eg. UIUC, etc.) when I could pay 10k a year for an ever better engineering program in Toronto. Really, most of the “top” engineering programs, at least on an undergraduate level, that my parents would be willing to pay for are privates. I know U of T is really good for engineering, but the size and competitiveness is something I’m hoping to avoid.
I guess I should have also clarified that I’m hoping to work in the States in the future, and IMO top US schools will have an advantage over top Canadian schools in general (of course the Google’s of the world recruit at U of T but smaller, more niche American companies will be much more abundant at a Cornell or Mudd).
If you can go to U of T for $10k/year, and are cash pay anywhere else outside of Canada, you’d be crazy to look in the US. Even MIT and Stanford are very poor financial choices. Let’s assume, for round numbers, that MIT is $200,000 more than U of T. If you invested that at 6% and didn’t touch it until you retired, you’d have close to $3,000,000. Would you earn $3,000,000 MORE if you went to MIT? Mudd? Cornell? Doubtful.
I wouldn’t assume U of T is “better” that UIUC (or Purdue, or Georgia Tech, the list could go on and on) since you don’t have a solid metric to judge them by. What you can assume is that the difference, in either direction would be incremental at best.
Lastly, I wouldn’t assume Cornell has small class sizes. I believe I read somewhere that their intro classes like calc and physics can have as many as 600 students.
I interned alongside a lot of engineering students from Waterloo this past summer.
Perhaps it was unintentional, but your chosen example of UIUC is typically ranked well ahead of Toronto in engineering, plus it is located in the US (which may be beneficial for your stated goal of working in the US). Of course, they are both wonderful schools and you’d be silly to pay that much extra for any school in the US (after all, UIUC and Berkeley are on par with or better than the vast majority of privates, including your vaunted Cornell) except for the whole working in the US factor.
In fact, in the THE rankings, there are a full 6 public schools in the US ranked above Toronto. Again, that is not meant to disparage Toronto, which I respect immensely. I am simply pointing out that your fundamental assumptions are flawed.
Rankings aren’t just a US phenomenon. The World University Rankings are compiled each year by the Times Higher Education and are pretty popular.
@eyemgh My numbers were slightly off-- U of T would be ~20-25k US per year, while I’d be full pay at the US schools. While my parents could pay for all of it, I’d want them to pay max 150k of the 280k total, leaving me about 130k in debt. I know it may sound like a huge number, but I think that tech and/or finance salaries are high enough that I can pay back that debt in 5-10 years, which I’m willing to do.
@bodangles Where did you intern, if you don’t mind me asking? Also, I don’t think I can apply for engineering at Waterloo as I believe they need 2 physics courses, and I only took 1 at my prep school. So Waterloo’s basically out of the question IMO.
You can’t borrow that much without a cosigner. US citizens can borrow about $30K over 4 years for undergrad but I’m not sure non-citizens can even borrow that.
@boneh3ad I took a look at a few rankings and you’re correct, seems that UIUC is better ranked than both Toronto and Cornell. That’s my bad, I didn’t realize that it was so good. My point was, which I think you’re saying too, is that I shouldn’t pay extra $ to go to a US state engineering program instead of a comparable program like U of T.
I know I may get bashed for saying this, but I guess one of the main reasons I’m attracted to Cornell is because of the general prestige/high ranking of all its different colleges. At the end of the day, I think I’d like to try engineering, but if I decide I don’t like it, I could transfer to AEM, one of the top feeder programs to Wall Street. Its Hotel School is also of course the best in the world. I’m ignorant of UIUC’s programs in general, but I don’t think they’re as renown for their undergrad business program, as compared to somewhere like Cornell. Therefore, my reasoning is that it may be worth to pay the extra $ to have a recognized global university that is flexible for my academic interests, as I’m still relatively undecided. U of T does somewhat fit the “recognized global university with lots of options”, but I personally believe that Rotman’s undergrad program leaves much to be desired… from what I’ve read online, it doesn’t even place well compared to Western Ivey & Queens in Canada.
As for Mudd, I’m attracted to the small, LAC size & the amazing job placement, from what I’ve read and heard about. Not to say U of T doesn’t place well-- it [and Waterloo] does-- but if my parents are willing to pay for it, and if I decide my preliminary goal is to get a valuable engineering degree & have the option to work in Silicon Valley, it may make sense to be geographically much closer to SV for recruiting purposes.
@OHMomof2 Hm, maybe the idea was that my parents would pay for all of it first, and then I’d pay them back over the next decade. Do you have a website/link where I can look at this stuff for more info?
^ that’s what it would have to be as you, a student without your own high income or assets, won’t be able to borrow that. As you are international I am pretty sure you can’t even get the Direct loans that US students get. There does seem to be a program for Canadian students studying abroad though, see first link.
A big manufacturing company – you won’t have heard of them, probably, but you’ll have heard of their products. They have several schools they recruit heavily from, but engineering isn’t super based on school prestige so many universities will give you good opportunities in that regard.
@OHMomof2 Thanks for the link, I think I actually stumbled upon that Loan Program a couple of weeks ago, I’ll go check it out more.