<p>Hey, BRM, you don't have to be so single sided on the bad side of medecine!! It can get a lot of people depressed, lol.</p>
<p>Here what you wrote: </p>
<p>"The biggest difference in my world view is the people factor. Medicine (most fields at least) is dependent upon you interacting with patients - people who might not be happy to see, people who don't follow your directions, people who view you as an adversary, people that flat out lie to you about things"</p>
<p>As a doctor, you will be able to also see the people who will express gratitude, the people who suddenly live a pristine and healthy life after you put in all that effort, the people you see walk up to you to say thank you, while a few days before, they were on the point of cardiac arrest... It's like getting married. You'll get all the shouting, the conflicts, the bad moods, but some people still get married to find those few but blissful and inspiring moments together.</p>
<p>Being a doctor definitely leaves a bleak aspect on your daily life, but I'm sure many doctors out there came to the field originally for those few, yet empowering, experiences that occur just as often.</p>
<p>quote: "Can anyone confirm that some schools will give engineers the benefit of doubt with GPA?"</p>
<p>Here is how I received my info. I received a BS in Computer Engineering from one of the Top 10 schools (harvard, yale, etc). I talked to the Dean of Admissions for Engineering, she said an applicant w/3.5 or higher has a very good chance of entering into their graduate engineering graduate program. The pt is that getting a 3.5 in engineering is very hard to do especially from a top ranked program. </p>
<p>Will medical schools realize this? Once again, I talked to a former Associate Dean of Admissions to the Medical School and he said they do not. This has been true from my experience as well. </p>
<p>Pre-interview is a numbers game, score a 30 or higher on the MCAT and have a 3.5 or higher cum GPA. Its really that simple. </p>
<p>If you are leaning more towards medicine than engineering, then do not major in pure engineering. Talk to the jr & sr students at your school in the engineering dept and get a sense for what their GPA is. Some engineering programs are easier than others.</p>
<p>Engineer’s life is not as glamorous as you imgine…and there is always that job security issue that hangs over you, yes, getting laid off does not strictly depend on your performance, sometime company just needs to shrink even if it means letting the best go. Then working on a plant (even if you are normally at the office) sometime 11-12 hrs or sometime 36 hrs straight. It might be required, there are customer obligations…, yes, you might need to go there and be in hot and noisy and very dirty environment for many hours day in and day out and only dream about going back to your office.</p>
<p>OK, my D. is Medical student, she did not have any options, she only saw herself being an MD, still very long road for her. No, we are not planning for her to have loans, we are paying for her Med. School, since she was on full tuition Merit scholsrships at UG. Yes, she has life, social activities, gym, but she is also working her ---- off to stay afloat.</p>
<p>Again, I have been in engineering, did not like it, changed to Computer Science, l belive my job is the best fit for me. My H. is an engineer, he has never seen himself doing anything else. Beginning of my post is describing his experiences. Most of my firends are engineers, it just happen this way. Most have been laid off at least ones or more. I myself have been out of work 8 times. It takes certain personality to get out there time and again and just take any position that is offerred to you, even 50% cut traveling for whole hour one way or sometime almost 50% increase. I am blessed, I found job every time. No, I and my H. are blessed working in such economy, but many with higher credntials are not so lucky in our fields of engineering and Computer Science… and I have never met unemployed MD ( I know very many), or even the one who is asked about his job. The first question when you meet your engineer friend is usually how is your job, even when you meet them every week. This is the way it is, something to consider.</p>
<p>MiamiDAP, I see that you have many similar experiences so am interested in your (and others) comments. DH and I are both engineers. We are in the process of discussing with our 8th grade daughter about career choices as she is deciding whether to go to a high school with biomedical focused program or just a regular high school and take a rigorous course load. DH is steering DD into thinking about medicine. I am on the other hand would like her to also think about engineering. Like you stated in your post, DH prefers to see her not have to worry about layoffs and unemployment which is a part of engineering world. I see that being a woman engineer would help you stand out and often easier to find a job even at a down economy. As far fit and job satisfactions, I can see that she could be good at both. However, I see that engineering offers a much better life style for women even though we don’t have as high of earning potential compare to female doctors. At 8th grade, she is making all solid A’s but I don’t see her as a tip top (98-99 percentiles) student academically. If she goes into the medicine track but don’t make it into medical school, she would have been so much better off to focus on engineering from the beginning. DH says she can go into biomedical engineering if she doesn’t make into medical school. Anyone who has gone through similar process, please share your experience and wisdom.</p>
<p>It’s fallacy that if your D doesn’t make into medical school, she can always “fall back” on BME. If she majors in biology or a biology subfield (pretty typical choice for pre meds), she will not be eligible for admission to engineering grad programs or to work as engineer.</p>
<p>I know this because I have a D with a double major in neurobiology and mathematics who was considering a MS in BME instead of medical school. Her UG research was very device oriented and she done a good deal of computer-modeling of complex systems.</p>
<p>D2 contacted a half dozen BME programs about whether they would consider her for admission. The answer–which was in stark contrast to what her own Top 30 research U’s career office had told her-- was no, they wouldn’t. Or they would only admit her ‘with deficiencies’–which meant she first had to make up those deficiencies at her own expense before she would be able to start her MS program.</p>
<p>In the past, BME used to more flexible but in the last decade or so, it has codified it core classes and no longer will accept the non-engineering student.</p>
<p>In order to be eligible for BME grad programs (or neural engineering – she had a friend jump from neuro/math to neural engineering who had the same experiences), D2 was told she basically needed to complete all core undergrad engineering coursework or about 8-10 classes. (She already had the math, plus calculus-based physics and 2 computer programming classes.)</p>
<p>My other D (now in med school was physics/math double major with research in medium energy particle physics). Grad programs were more willing to consider her for grad engineering programs, but also would only admit her “with deficiencies”. (She just had fewer deficiencies since she had classes like thermo, circuits, modern physics, mechanical systems, statics/dynamics.and material science.)</p>
<p>TL;DR Unless your D majors in BME (or another engineering discipline) at undergrad, she can’t count on being able to go into engineering later without first completing degree requirements for engineering if she doesn’t get into med school.</p>
<p>Well, many pointed out and I agree, that engineering can derail your high GPA goal. Many are still successful, but engineering is the hardest UG degree. Sometime going after 2 might lead one nowhere or might lead to some third option. All you can do is to try. I would not stress too much specialization at HS level. In addition, one comment. I was very good academically in engineering program, I had no problem. I did not like the job, I am not cut out to be an engineer, something to consider. Is you D. the one who love gadgets, taking things apart and putting them back together, always knows how to operate various peices of technology, “handy” personality? I am not. I can see it clearly in my H. and even in my grandson, but not in my granddaugher who is a very top student and loves math. Just couple comments in regard to engineering and personality match and the goal of entering Medical school. I was also steered towards engineering by my father, btw. The reason - very strong in math and sciences. Keep in mind it actually does not mean much.</p>
<p>8th grade daughter about career choices as she is deciding whether to go to a high school with biomedical focused program or just a regular high school and take a rigorous course load. DH is steering DD into thinking about medicine. I am on the other hand would like her to also think about engineering. Like</p>
<p>Wow…back off parents!</p>
<p>your D is only in the 8th grade. If she’s a strong student, let her do a rigorous college-prep curriculum in high school, apply to colleges, and determine a major/career path at that point.</p>
<p>8th grade is way too early. That being said I wouldn’t steer my kidds into either field. It was easy to sway my kids away from engineering. All I had to do was bring them to work and let them see the working environment with all its cubicles and that completely turned them off.</p>
<p>@DocT…you’ve gotta be kidding me! THAT was your kids’ deciding factor?? The environment? I forgot that the people that you work with has NOTHING to do with your enviornment (major sarcasm). Have you seen facebook or dropbox’s offices? Did you ask them what they LIKE to do? Do they like to be creative or memorize facts after facts after facts and then apply the same damn thing over and over? </p>
<p>Yes, you spend a lot of time in a cube…but even doctors do that. The first two years of medical school is nothing but cube work. I’m sorry to say that you haven’t given your kids a fair shake at engineering</p>
<p>Well - my daughter is a third year medical student and she doesn’t sit in a cube all day long so I’m not certain what you’re talking about. My son never spent time in a cubicle. I’ve been in the technical field for 40 years and the engineering work environment in general, particularly for old line companies is pathetic.</p>
<p>Medicine = memorizing facts after facts after facts and then applying the same damn thing over and over</p>
<p>Engineering = being creative</p>
<p>And if the first two years of being a med student = cube work, then you should also say that elementary school, high school, and college = cube work…because really, for the first two years, you’re just continuing to go to school full time like you always have.</p>
<p>My wife has been an educator for > 30 years and never sat in a cubicle. Engineers in a lot of companies sit in rows of little cubicles. A lot of other professions would never put up with that. I go to a number of doctors: primary care physicians, endocrinologists, podiatrists, ent’s, cardiologists and I’ve never seen any of them sitting in a 3 by 6 cubicle.</p>
<p>Even the radiologists I know have nice (albeit dark) offices–hardly cubicles. And the (3) rad oncs I know spend a considerable amount of time with patients/in clinic.</p>
<p>I don’t know if these radiation oncologists work in a cubicle but as has just been pointed out, they also have offices not just cubicles. For the most part engineers are only tolerated as a necessary evil for a company to make a few bucks. Compare their cubicles to anybody within the company dealing with finance to see this. The farther somebody is in an organization from the money, the more poorly they’re treated. Except for a few engineers, most are not treated with the same respect or have the same prestige as a doctor. There is absolutely no comparison.</p>
<p>^Unless you start your own consulting engineering company and work from home, in an office with lots of windows that overlook beautiful woods and a field! :)</p>
<p>Yes of course - but that is not the lot of most engineers. One of the major issues is that most engineers deal with the details that are under the radar of the upper level management whose bottom line is whether the company is making or losing money.</p>
I once heard from a friend that the CEO of his relatively small company would go to the offices of the director and the VP of finance department likely a dozen times before he would go to the VP engineering once. As regard to those engineers at all levels, they are essentially invisible to him. Actually, he also said that the CEO could not care less about whether some of the work is done in US or is sub-contracted out to some contractors (here or overseas.) He only cares about how much money need to to spend on this.</p>
<p>The wife of an IBMer once told me that the last few years of his husband’s job was to train an engineer in India to replace himself.</p>
<p>Really very little respect at many companies.</p>