<p>Can anyone currently in UM's Engineering program tell me if it is similar to many of the other Public Engineering powerhouses such as Purdue and Georgia Tech in that they weed out a good portion of their students in the first year or two? Is the attrition rate for freshman engineering mcuh less at UM than many other publics? Also, how do class sizes for Engineering majors compare to many of the other publics? Thanks.</p>
<p>I will be a freshman in engineering this year, so I have no firsthand experience, but I have heard from several friends that it can be pretty difficult, especially some of the intro engineering classes. </p>
<p>One of my friends was a freshman this past year and he has around a 2.8 now (which is about average for freshman engineering). He said that Engin 100 was pretty hard and time intensive, and also claims that his professors purposely tried to make it hard for the students, just to kind of test them in a way. </p>
<p>His team had to build some robots for the class as a final project, and the night before they had to present them, they left them in a place designated by their professors. The next day, when it was their turn to present, the robots were unresponsive to any of the commands they tried to give them. After looking them over, they discovered that the batteries had been completely removed from all of them.</p>
<p>Their professor had no sympathy for them, and told them that they should have checked that everything was in order before presenting. He proceeded to give them a failing grade on the project. My friend claims that he believes the professor may have messed with the robots himself, just to see if they would be able to catch the problem.</p>
<p>Now, of course, I realize that this is completely anecdotal, and quite possibly embellished in the telling. I have no idea whether it happened this way exactly, or whether this kind of thing is a common occurrence. So take it with a grain of salt. I am sure the professors are not all plotting against their students.</p>
<p>Overall, I have heard that the engineering program is pretty difficult, but I suppose it depends largely on the individual - how intelligent and motivated you are, etc. Not too sure about attrition rates or class sizes.</p>
<p>Engineering is definitely not an easy path. Even classes for one's major has classes that weed out those who are less interested or not hard working. The prerequisites for engineering are also aimed at the same thing (Chem 130, Math 115/116/215/216, Physics 140/240, etc).</p>
<p>ok, here's the real scoop from someone that took the class Kastsm is referring to. I'm sure the prof did it on purpose. When I took the class, our group failed the project too. It's purely designed so that almost everyone fails. It may be unfair, but real life engineering is unfair. It's better to forget to check the batteries now, than to say...forget to check the thermal heat shield on a space shuttle later on.</p>
<p>BTW, almost everyone gets a 90+% on the final project, and the class avg is a B+ (although not many A's).</p>
<p>anyway, attrition rate is pretty high. maybe 30-40% drop out or switch majors. class sizes are large. usually 100ish in the core classes.</p>
<p>Damn, what section of Engin 100 was this where the prof was a hard-ass? </p>
<p>Engineering IS designed like other tough public engineering school to weed people out. You will probably take a couple "weeder" courses during your first year. </p>
<p>Engin 101 can either make or break your semester. If you have not had any programming experience, you will be extremely disadvantaged in this class. Otherwise, it can be very easy. However, I know of one friend who has not had and experience in programming and got an A. If you are good at problem solving and can reason through algorithms, you should be fine. </p>
<p>Engin 100 is also a make or break. Some sections are impossiblely hard, such as the one with the robots stated above. I also hear that the Biomedical Engineering related sections of this class are also unfairly difficult. The section I took was "Microprocessors and Music." If you plan on going into any major in the EECS department or enjoy programming, I suggest taking this course. </p>
<p>Chem 130 is not that bad, mainly because many of the people that take the course are "pre-med" (They get weeded out too). I haven't actually taken this course, but I have seen exams and heard testimony from other students. It's really not that difficult of a class. </p>
<p>Physics 140 is significantly tougher than Chem 130, for the reason that most pre-meds will not take this course (The average engineering student is IMO smarter than the average pre-med). Therefore, the other students in your class are going to be engineers or chem majors or physics majors. The tests are multiple choice and can be very tricky. I really hope you took at least some physics in high school, else you're kinda screwed. The class moves very fast. </p>
<p>Physics 240 is the continuation of 140 and this class covers Electromagnetism. Unless you have taken AP Physics B or C, you probably have not learned this stuff. I will say that this course is probably one of the most difficult prerequisites for engineers. </p>
<p>The Math courses are tough and require a lot of time to learn the material. If you are good at Math and can learn a lot in a short time, you should be fine. Otherwise, beware of Calc 2.</p>
<p>Thanks a lot for all the input folks. This helps a great deal.</p>
<p>I did have a lot of experience with chem, calc, physics in high school, but the only class that really caught me off-guard was Physics 140. Chem 130 was just like AP Chem, pretty easy, got an A- because I never attended class and missed getting an A by .3%, I did Applied Honors Calc II and III. Again, not very difficult stuff. A in II and A- in III, had 117/120 on the Calc II midterm because my teacher wrote up how to do every single problem that could be on the exam the week before the test, and I either learned how to do all of them or used my study sheet for them. But Physics 140...this is a very tricky class. You gotta hit the books on this one big-time. I'm taking Physics 240 at Oakland University right now, the class is mainly U-M students, they think I am a genius (I'm far from it) for getting an A-.</p>
<p>Do yourself a favor and take some of the engineering pre-req classes over the summer or use your AP credits, especially Engin 101 and Physics 140/240.</p>
<p>dsmo: what sort of background did you have in math in high school? Just wondering as I'm also taking applied calc II and III freshman year. Thanks :)</p>
<p>-GF</p>
<p>Pretty good math background. Calc BC senior year, should have gotten a 5, but I had a huge case of senioritis and got 4. (I only took one other AP test because I didn't want to study for them, despite having another 2-3 that I could have gotten credit for.) I also did C++ in ninth grade, Java in 12th grade. I always made top 1% on AMC12 or whatever that was.</p>
<p>If you took BC in high school, Applied II should be a walk in the park for you. Get Daihai He as a professor for Math 156. Applied III isn't very difficult either.</p>
<p>Awesome, I randomnly picked He out when I went to orientation, I'll be in his class I suppose :) Thanks for the tips!</p>
<p>-GF</p>
<p>dsmo and gamefreak..</p>
<p>im taking app honors calc 2 as well. on my schedule, it doesnt specify an instructor. i was assuming this was because it might be mostly taught by a GSI or something. how do i know if He is teaching my class?</p>
<p>math 156 section 007, 229 Denn, 12-1pm, MTWF
i thought maybe theres a chance its the same as yours?</p>
<p>App Honors Calc 2 is usually taught by professors, not GSI's. Although one of my friends told me that his instructor was a GSI. Just because the instructors name is not listed doesn't necessarily mean that the class is taught by a GSI.</p>
<p>Yeah, they said at orientation that if there was no instructor listed yet, it could just be that they haven't put it into the system or they don't know exactly who will be teaching it yet.</p>
<p>-GF</p>
<p>Something like what Gamefreak said. For App Honors II, I don't know if the person is called a professor or GSI, but you attend class 4 hours/week with the same person teaching, about 20-30 students in the class. It is a pretty good deal.</p>
<p>I don't think Daihai was a full professor, but the man had something like 2 Phd's, and he was a pretty good instructor, willing to help you out a lot. Plus, his voice is sooo soothing.</p>
<p>hahaa dsmo are you a girl?</p>
<p>No, Im a dude, but Daihai is the biggest g of a professor I had all year.</p>
<p>I heard from a friend that Kanan Souondarajan is a good maths prof</p>
<p>I'm only taking 3 classes my freshman year....</p>
<p>unfortunately they are:</p>
<p>Math 215 (calc III)</p>
<p>Engin 100 (biomedical)</p>
<p>Chem 210/211</p>
<p>am I screwed for freshman year</p>
<p>No, but it's a tough schedule, especially that biomed engin 100, i hear they are the worst.</p>