Engineering/Woody Woo

Colleges & Universities A-Z Princeton University
1

<p>So, I was wondering? How feasible/common is it to be an Engineering major (Chemical, specifically) and get a Certificate Degree from the Woodrow Wilson school of Public Affairs? Because I REALLY want to major in ChemEng, but politics and public policy is one of my hugest passions. I know you don’t apply for the WWS until sophomore year, but I guess it doesn’t hurt to start looking at my options now, right?</p>

<p>Basically, if my AP scores turn out as expected, I’ll have the right classes taken to qualify for Advanced Standing. As such, my freshman year, I don’t have to take Chem I, Physics, Bio I, etc. Instead, I want to take some core Chem Eng classes, and start with one or two pre-med classes for med school/MCATs (orgo I and II, e.g).</p>

<p>With all of this, Chem Eng. majors have to major in a specific concentration - Biotechnology/Environmental Technology/ Materials and Product Engineering, etc.
One of the concentrations is Entrepreneurship and Management, which has a significant overlap with the WWS school. So here are my questions:</p>

<li><p>Considering all the classes I get to skip with Advanced Standing (Calculus I and II, Chemistry, Physics, Biology, Both Economics), is it feasible to do a Chemical Engineering Major, take the 3 or 4 more classes to qualify for pre-med, AND do a Woody Woo certificate degree?</p></li>
<li><p>WWS asks for people who show passion for Public Affairs through their courseload. However, I’m trying to take alot of Chem Eng. core classes AND pre-med classes before junior year so that I can 1) be prepared to take the MCATs ASAP and 2) have space in my class schedule to fulfill all of the WWS Distribution requirements without having to worry about taking too many Chem Eng. core classes at the same time. How do I show passion for Public Affairs if I’ll have only taken 2 classes that relate to both my major and Public Affairs before the end of sophomore year (Area of Concentration) and 1 elective relating to Public Policy/Politics by that time?</p></li>
<li><p>For those in Woody Woo (or who got a degree from it before), when you are in Policy Seminar, is that like a really tough class? Would you recommend taking 4 other classes at the same time? Or would you stick with three? (I’m thinking about taking 3 other classes with it in the fall, and then 4 other classes in the spring).</p></li>
<li><p>For those who are applying to medical school (or already got in) - how tough is it to take 9 classes Junior year when you are applying for Med School, and possibly retaking MCATs?</p></li>
</ol>

<p>I know I may seem really weird, but I’m one of those kids who loves to learn about everything. I’ve wanted to do medicine ever since I was a little kid, and the last four years have shown me that Chemistry/Chemical Engineering is the only thing that I would happily major in - because it is so intellectually stimulating and (in case the Med School thing doesn’t work out) it provides a level of job security that alot of other majors might not. However, Public policy is my passion - anyone who knows me well knows that the thing I like best is to debate politics and try to brainstorm pragmatic solutions to today’s problems. That’s why i was so excited to see an entire school devoted to public policy inside a university. That’s one of the biggest reasons I chose Princeton - it combines the top notch engineering school with an excellent and renowned school of Public Affairs. So, if you’re still reading this, I want to be one of those doctors that knows everything about the social aspect of his job - in other words, I want to be a doctor that could just as well have been Surgeon General or something. And if that doesn’t happen, I want to be a Chemical Engineer that’s working on the front lines coming up with solutions that provide a direct and immediate impact on the social issues that plague our nation. Either way, WWS seems like the best way for me to go.</p>

2

<p>(This relates to Question 2) - I can’t edit, for some reason, so I’d just like to add that I will actually have 4, not 3, courses related to Public Policy by the end of soph yr - I forgot to include a frosh seminar I want to take.</p>

3

<p>Just to clarify, Advanced standing is where you graduate in three years. I don’t think you’re planning on doing this, so I’ll make the assumption that you’re not.</p>

<p>It is very good that you are trying to figure this all out now; it will help you get the most out of your freshmen year classes and set you on the right track for what you want to do. </p>

<ol>
<li><p>It is most definitely possible. Pre-med and CHE overlap hugely, so you won’t really have to go out your way to take the Pre-med classes. The WWS certificate is one of the more intense ones, but is definitely possible. 35 courses is a lot; since you’ve got a lot of AP credit, you don’t have many prereqs and will only have to take MAT201-2 and COS126 for the engineering requirement. My advice is not to go overboard on the CHE classes early on; you’ll be able to take plenty of those junior and senior year. You should make it your priority to take the classes for WWS if you really are certain you want to do the certificate. </p></li>
<li><p>I’ll take this question as more of a general “How do I get into Woody Woo?”. The best thing to do is just take classes in WWS. Even taking only two or three classes (especially if you take that seminar), like WWS301, ethics in public policy, or WWS302, will demonstrate that you are interested. I just finished sophomore year and saw which of my classmates got into WWS. Anyone who was trying to get into WWS since before freshmen year did get in (they had taken WWS classes freshmen year); those who got rejected were those who decided to apply almost last minute, or mid sophomore year, having taken only basic econ and politics classes. Also, you could potentially do some internship in public policythis summer or next summer to show more interest?</p></li>
</ol>

<p>I am a little confused by your question, since you say you want to load up on CHE classes but also that you don’t want to take too many. </p>

<ol>
<li><p>Don’t know, no one really complains about policy seminar, so I’d assume it’s not that bad.</p></li>
<li><p>You’ll be fine, taking 5 classes is not horrible, it’s certainly tougher than 4, but people do it all the time. </p></li>
</ol>

<p>I do want to make sure you realize something though. Acceptance to med school, though 90% of Princeton applicants are accepted, is heavily dependent on grades. If you’re overloading yourself with intense courses and all of this work, you need to make sure that your grades are good. WWS acceptance is heavily dependent on grades (we’re talking over a 3.5). My one worry is that you will overload with all the tough pre-med, CHE and WWS courses and your GPA will suffer as a result; all three are certainly some of the most difficult programs at Princeton (CHE is often regarded as the toughest major, and WWS and pre-med are some of the most competitive programs). Not that GPA should always be thought of as the most important thing, but if you have a 2.5 or something like that, you won’t be in shape to go to med school, get into WWS or even get a good job as a chemE. Just make sure you don’t bite off more than you can chew.</p>

<p>Just my thoughts.</p>

4

<p>For question 2, what I was saying was that I want to take most of the core classes/pre-med classes before sophomore year, so I can take the MCATs early AND so that in junior and senior year, I won’t have to take lots of core classes as the same time as the WWS distribution requirements. Sorry if I was/am still unclear.</p>

<p>Also, that’s the main worry I have - will I be able to do it? I don’t know. I guess if it’s too hard after freshman year, I’ll slow down a little?</p>

5

<p>Hi OP! I’m a WWS major and was considering premed (though ultimately decided against it), so I speak from personal experience.</p>

<ol>
<li><p>It is feasible to be a Chemical Engineering Major and do a WWS certificate. This is, however, EXTREMELY DIFFICULT. Even though you’ll get credit for the Task Force as a class, and have it count towards your 3 WWS classes requirement (a luxury WWS majors do not enjoy), it still represents a very heavy course load. You also won’t have too much room for exploration, but if these classes represent subjects you would have taken any way, then it’s not as big of a problem, but still, you will be constrained.</p></li>
<li><p>I fulfilled all premed requirements (PHY 103, PHY 104, MAT 201, MOL 214, CHM 207, CHM 204, Orgo) freshman and sophomore year. I’m also a neuroscience certificate student, so I took PSY 101, PSY 258/NEU 258, PSY 259/NEU 259 as well in those two years. The only classes that fulfilled WWS requirements were a Modern Chinese History course and ORF 245 Fundamental of Engineering Statistics, neither of which are related to my main focus, education policy. However, I explained how I believe that Education Policy must be strengthened by standing at the intersection of policy and psychology. I also have a specialized interest in Deaf Education, which has medical implications that my premed courses help me understand. My essays therefore highlighted EXACTLY why I wanted to be both Neuroscience and WWS, and how each strengthen the other. </p>

<p>The WWS application also includes a section in which you fill out the course schedule you plan to take for the next two years as a WWS major/certificate student. Although no one ends up following it, it is a good exercise in seeing just what it is you want to accomplish by taking such an academic path. It also proves that you’ve thought carefully about your courses. Mine, for example, showed that by loading up on science courses early in my Princeton career, I was able to free my my schedule considerably for the educational psychology and educational policy courses that I wanted to take my junior and senior years.</p>

<p>Also, your outside activities and leadership positions should tie into your overall narrative as well. For example, while my classes really didn’t apply to public policy at all (except for a freshman seminar that really opened my eyes to global issues), my passion for work with the Student Volunteers Council and as a teacher supported my plans.</p></li>
<li><p>Task Force (aka Policy Seminar) will be one of the toughest courses you’ll ever take. It’s intellectually rigorous, requires self-discipline to work on consistently, and results in a final product that you want to be able to be proud of. WWS majors do take it with four other courses, and it is far from easy. I had to drop many activities in order to make the time. Other friends had course deficits because they had not built up a cushion their freshman and sophomore years (which I was able to, thankfully). As an engineer, you can take it with only three other courses because it counts as your fourth course. Doing more may be too ambitious, unless the fifth course is PDF. </p></li>
<li><p>Am not applying to medical school.</p></li>
</ol>

<p>In short, it’s ridiculously difficult, but possible. It depends a lot on the strength of your academic background coming into Princeton (some people adjust very quickly to the academic culture, others need more time) and personal drive. It will also require having a support structure in other students and professors, the humbleness to ask for help (I learned this the hard way). One of the people I most admire, a co-founder of the SEED schools, was an engineer and WWS certificate student, and he said that doing WWS was one of the best decisions he ever made because it pushed him in all the right directions and gave him the tools to be able to do something like SEED. Personally, I would have had a much easier time in another major, but I don’t regret being WWS for a second. </p>

<p>G.P.A. may be a concern… WWS majors generally come in with higher GPAs, so you’re competing against people within a department of high achievers, but take the first couple of years at Princeton to reevaluate your own academic comfort. You don’t need to decide upon your entire four years, now. Just know that what you propose is a possibility, but you must be prepared to plan ahead and work hard.</p>

6

<p>thanks to everyone who replied!
another question - do WWS people have to take 1 semester or 2 semesters of Policy seminar?</p>

7

<p>so, gradewise, I’d prolly be better off doing a combo of 2 of the 3:</p>

<p>WWS major + pre-med
or CHE major + pre-med
or CHE major+ WWS cert. (highly unlikely since I’m 99.99% sure I want to go to med school).</p>

<p>Because doing all three, plus EC’s (IM sports, church) leaves me with practically 0 time for any fun if I am to maintain a 3.6+ GPA (preferably 3.75+) ?</p>

8

<p>Two PTFs (policy task force), one each semester. </p>

<p>Your first two options are definitely more feasible. Explore more when you’re at Princeton, though! That’s what your freshman year is for.</p>