Engineering

Colleges and Universities A-Z Swarthmore College
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<p>Hey, all--</p>

<p>Already applied (RD); just playing the waiting game now, like everyone else. While waiting, though, it's nice to obsess about something other than MIT (which has those thrice-be-damned admissions blogs, making it very easy to obsess over!).</p>

<p>I didn't really consider Swarthmore in the running until, through an idle question at a College Fair I was dragged to, I found out that Swarthmore is one of the only (if not <i>the</i> only; I really don't know) small liberal arts colleges with an engineering program. I'm thinking of becoming an engineer (possibly Mechanical), but you never know-- what if I discover my calling as a Philosophy major in the middle of Fluid Mechanics? This is where a more varied place like Swarthmore comes in handy.</p>

<p>So anyway, the point of this post is a general request for any information anyone may have about the Engineering program at Swarthmore. Any other math/science geeks applying to Swarthmore, or are we drowning in a sea of English majors? And presuming I get in, anything you'd suggest seeing when I finally get to tour?</p>

<p>Oh, yeah, and how do you, personally, pronounce it?</p>

<p>Thanks in advance!</p>

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<p>Swarthmore's engineering department has been around since the 1880s. It's a very strong, very difficult A.B.E.T. accredited program. Unlike most engineering schools, you get a B.S. degree with a Major in Engineering, as opposed to a specialized degree in mechanical engineer or chemical engineering. You take overview courses in all areas of engineering and then one of several "concentrations" with your elective courses.</p>

<p>It's ideal for someone who wants to combine engineering with other fields -- or for someone who is not absolutely, positively sure at age 17 without having ever taken an engineering course that engineering is their life's calling.</p>

<p>There's a ton of information here:</p>

<p><a href="http://www.engin.swarthmore.edu/%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.engin.swarthmore.edu/&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>If you highlighted your interest in engineering on your application, especially as a female, you probably have a bit of an edge in admissions.</p>

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<p>Go to the Swat LiveJournal FAQ for "specs" here:</p>

<p><a href="http://community.livejournal.com/swarthmore/113393.html#cutid1%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://community.livejournal.com/swarthmore/113393.html#cutid1&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>Click on the engineering link for a discussion featuring several Swarthmore engineering students and alum.</p>

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<p>There are other folks out there like you -- my son. He doesn't do the CC thing, but I can tell you a little bit that might be helpful. He is interested in urban/public policy, history and engineering. We, his parents, encouraged him not to go directly into a school that specilizes in engineering. Ultimately, he agreed with us (not a hard sell, actually). There are options besides MIT -- there are dual degree programs available (UPenn, Columbia and UMich, to name a few) or other schools like Harvard, Yale and Swarthmore that offer engineering majors. Like ID said, Swarthmore has a unique (or almost unique) general engineering program. Swarthmore's program suited him and he so loved the school itself! Swarthmore rose to the top of his list.</p>

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<p>
[quote]
Swarthmore has a unique (or almost unique) general engineering program

[/quote]
One other top LAC has a similar program: Smith College. For women only, of course. </p>

<p>Other traditional LACs that offer engineering programs include Bucknell, Lafayette, and Union. And Harvey Mudd and Olin, while not traditional LACs, are excellent small colleges with a science/engineering orientation.</p>

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<p>Yes. Harvey Mudd only offers a BS degree in general Engineering as well. Conceptually, its program looks similar to Swarthmore's. The difference is that Harvey Mudd is a pure tech/science school with very limited offerings in a "Social Sciences and Humanities" department -- although these can be augemented with courses at the other Claremont Colleges. Essentially all Mudd students are math, science, and engineering majors.</p>

<p>That is going to be a very different experience than Swarthmore, where the Engineering and science majors exist in the context of an liberal arts college with exceptional Social Science and Humanities offerings. Overall, less exclusive laser-like focus by the college and students on Engineering. This would make sense for someone who wants to combine engineering with social sciences and humanities, someone who isn't absolutely, positively sure of a science/engineering major, or a scientist/engineer who just wants to be a part of a broader-based community.</p>

<p>To me, the critical decision a potential engineer needs to make as a senior in high school is just how sure they are of the career path. Unless the answer is "100% sure", then you want to avoid a school where it is difficult to shift gears, i.e. where the entire college is engineering or where the engineering program exists as a standalone school with barriers against cross-pollination.</p>

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<p>I want to second Interesteddad. I also want to add that you may think you are 100% certain, but find later that you have changed your mind. I did. I was 100% certain I wanted to major in chemistry. I took a history class (required to meet distribution requirements) and my life plans changed! I always was interested in many subjects and in retrospect one might have predicted I might change my mind. Some people are more likely to be right about being 100% certain. </p>

<p>I think the Claremont Colleges are an interesting possibility. My son considered them also in his list. There is a different "flow" between the different colleges there, though, as ID points out, than between areas of study at Swarthmore. You cannot do a dual degree with Harvey Mudd and Pomona, either. </p>

<p>I guess you have already picked your schools, however, and want to know about Swarthmore specifically. My son looked at the engineering program very carefully and felt more than happy with the program, if that is any help. He plans to go on to a graduate engineering program. Swarthmore's program is truly perfect for that goal.</p>

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<p>Kithburd - thanks for starting this thread. I also have a question about the engineering degree at Swarthmore. My D has fallen in love with University of Chicago but is also entertaining the thought of becoming an engineer - which she obviously can't do at UofC. Based on what I've read, it seems the two schools provide similar environments. Do many students typically apply to both schools? My other question is whether or not Swarthmore's engineering program would fit someone who is only interested in pursuing environmental or chemical engineering? Would she have to take too many unrelated courses or do engineers in all specialties take many of the same courses. I have no experience with engineering so any advice or thoughts would be appreciated.</p>

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<p>
[quote]
Based on what I've read, it seems the two schools provide similar environments.

[/quote]

Yes and no. They are similar in that both schools offer exceptionally demanding academic programs with higher than average percentages of students being fully-engaged in their academic studies. They are, in many ways, polar opposites in terms of campus culture, community, etc. Swarthmore has an exceptionally strong sense of community and is a warm, friendly, highly supportive place.</p>

<p>
[quote]
Do many students typically apply to both schools?

[/quote]

Yes, I think there are quite a few cross-applications.</p>

<p>
[quote]
My other question is whether or not Swarthmore's engineering program would fit someone who is only interested in pursuing environmental or chemical engineering? Would she have to take too many unrelated courses or do engineers in all specialties take many of the same courses.

[/quote]

There's more detail at the engineering link provided above, including sample course plans here:</p>

<p><a href="http://www.engin.swarthmore.edu/academics/major.htm%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.engin.swarthmore.edu/academics/major.htm&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>But, in a nutshell, engineering students spend start with the core courses covering the general basics: math, physics, chemistry, and introductory engineering courses in each of the main subfields: mechanics, electric circuit analysis, thermofluid mechanics, and engineering design. Then, they specialize in an area of interest: chemical, electrical, environmental, etc. The specialization consists of elective courses centered around a theme and hands-on engineering projects in that area. Each student proposes his or her own area of specialization in a proposal at the end of sophmore year. These areas may or may not correspond to a standard engineering subfield.</p>

<p>Environmental engineering is a subfield that really lends itself to Swarthmore's cross-disciplinary options. For example, it is hard to think about environmental engineering without considering environmental public policiy issues such as might be covered in a poli sci or economics or sociology course -- especially considering that the environmental engineering in the 21st century is so global in nature.</p>

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<p>Interesteddad,
I prefer the "warm, friendly, highly supportive place" description. I gather that University of Chicago does not have a similar reputation? </p>

<p>Thanks very much for the information on the engineering program. I'll have my D look at the engineering site in more detail. She also filled out the request for information on the engineering major. I agree with you on the environmental public policy issues. Interestingly, I don't see a geology/geoscience/earth science major on Swat's site. If D decides against engineering, this is the area she wants to major in. She'll have to do a little more research in this area.</p>

<p>Thanks again for your insight! It's greatly appreciated.</p>

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<p>I don't think that Swarthmore offers geology. Haverford doesn't either, but Haverford students can major in geology at Bryn Mawr, which has an excellent program. I don't know if Swarthmore students have this option; the "Bi-College" relationship between Bryn Mawr and Haverford seems to be stronger than the "Tri-College" relationship that includes Swarthmore.</p>

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<p>
[quote]
I prefer the "warm, friendly, highly supportive place" description. I gather that University of Chicago does not have a similar reputation?

[/quote]
</p>

<p>I wasn't commenting on Chicago as much as Swarthmore. I don't know of any research university that is even in the same ballpark with Swarthmore on those issues. The give and take between the faculty/staff and the students at Swarthmore -- and I mean average students, not just the superstars -- is amazing. I think that the shared purpose and community of the students, faculty, and administration is probably Swarthmore's most distinctive feature, sometimes overshadowed by the reputation for demanding academics. </p>

<p>UChicago is seldom described as being "warm and fuzzy", but my impression is that it probably has an OK community for an urban university.</p>

<p>On Geology. I don't see any evidence that Swarthmore offers it. I think that, technically, you can major at Bryn Mawr, but as a practical matter....it would be a massive pain in the butt. Taking a couple of courses is one thing, but doing your major off-campus wouldn't be ideal.</p>

<p>Swat does offer an interdisciplinary Environmental Studies major that includes at least one Geology course at Bryn Mawr as an option.</p>

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<p>Mum07</p>

<p>My son considered Chicago and also liked the environment and vibe of the place. I know of a number of kids attracted to both Swarthmore and Chicago. The lack of engineering was a major detriment for him. He also heard mixed remarks about he environment, but I think that was not a deciding factor. There were a few other factors he considered in his comparison where Chicago fell short for him.</p>

<p>How about Harvard and Yale? They have environmental engineering programs, I believe.</p>

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<p>I am a freshman who may be majoring in Engineering (or basket weaving or interpretative bongo drumming...who really knows). Swarthmore has an excellent Engineering program IF you don't know if you are sure you want to be an Engin major and IF you are planning on grad school. Engineering at Swarthmore is hard (it's probably hard everywhere), and some of the professors are less than great. And, despite what the admission department would like you to think, a BS from Swarthmore does not make you as employable as say, MIT or CalTech. And its not as though an Engin major at Swat dabbles a little in every humanity or social science. There are over 20 required credits for Engin majors, compared to 8 for social science majors. Most Engin majors take 2, even 3 lab sciences at a time, leaving little time to really immerse yourself in that extra "elective". The facilities here are amazing for a small LAC of less than 1500 people, but nowhere near comparable to that of a big university.</p>

<p>This makes it sound like I don't like Engin at Swat, but actually I do. If I had gone to any other school, I probably wouldn't have even considered an Engin major. Students are not competitive with each other the way they are at bigger universities. (In fact, I've found that classmates often bond together very tightly in face of the difficulty.) And, at Swat, at least you get the space for an extra class or two. I've heard that the alumni network works wonders and Swat students do go to good grad schools. And I came to Swarthmore, as corny as it sounds, for the people and the atmosphere and to become a more educated person, not just so that I could get a piece of paper that would get me more money in the future. So, I'm just saying that if you know you want to be an Engineer, a more specialized program would probably be better for your future prospects.</p>

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<p>Actually, I think CalTech and MIT may be bad examples of a good point. Like Swarthmore, those are probaby not great schools for someone looking to go directly from undergrad engineering to a cubicle at the local branch office of Parsons/Brinckerhoff. If you are looking at an engineering undergrad degree as vocational training, then a state school or engineering specific school probably offers better immediate entry-level job oppotunities.</p>

<p>Swat engineering grads tend to go in non-cubicle directions: grad school engineering tracks and tracks in unrelated fields that may use a technical background -- for example, financial modelling in banking, etc.</p>

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<p>Froshyswattie,</p>

<p>Your post is interesting to me because I agree that after meeting the Engin. major requirement, there isn't a lot of room for other courses. Are you using AP credits to reduce some of the Engin. requirements? Do other Engin. majors use AP credits? My son thinks that he may be better off not using AP credits because he wonders if he really knows enough to go on to the next level course. What is your opinion or general "wisdom" about this?</p>

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<p>It depends on the specific AP credit. It might make a lot of sense to test out of calc. with AB or BC calc credit - and I think it makes sense to do so, so that you aren't repeating material. In contast, having AP Physics credit probably still does not make it advisable to test out of the required physics classics for engineers, although it may technically be possible. I know people who double majored with engineering and a social science/ humanities subject, and many many more who had a minor in another subject, so it is absolutely possible to take a lot of other classes as an engin major. I think that is part of what makes swattie engineers so successful in the long term - they can really write, analyze texts, and communicate - skills which I think they pick up in the non engin part of the curriculum, and which you wouldn't get going to a more technically oriented school.</p>

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<p>Yes, I agree with you about what is attractive about Swat and engineering. My son agrees about calculus and physics. The only other AP credit that could used be in meeting Engin. requirements would be chemistry. If only calculus is used, that frees up only 1 or 2 of the 20 requirements, which allows 10 other courses. Just wish that there would be a way to free up a couple more, but there may not be a way, except summer school. Seems like loading up with more than 4 courses a semester is not a good idea.</p>

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<p>Oops! Apparently I am having trouble with arithmetic! Hummm... 32 minus 20 is 12! So, to restate.... is he can get 1 or 2 credits for calculus, that leaves him with 14 or so non-Engin. courses. The question is...do Engin. students manage to carve out more other courses? And how?</p>

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<p>It might be worth looking at the FAQs on the engin website:
<a href="http://www.engin.swarthmore.edu/spec/faq.htm%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.engin.swarthmore.edu/spec/faq.htm&lt;/a>
I think, atlantamom, that 14 credits is quite a lot - it means that engineers typically take 2 non engineering/ nat science classes every semester but two. It is hard for me to imagine any secondary academic passion that couldn't be quenched in 14 credits. Engineers successfully study abroad, star in plays, on sports teams, take second majors, honors minors... it is unlikely that studying engineering at any other school would allow for as rich a liberal arts experiance, while still providing a brilliant engineering education.</p>