<p>anyone ever do or heard of someone who did engineering major and then went to prelaw?</p>
<p>Not sure if I count, but I am an engineer planning on going to law school. Cornell doesnt have any specified pre-law curriculum so it's not as if I had to fulfill anything beyond the typical of my major. I just hoped the engineering background would place me a step ahead when entering law (especially since I hope to deal w/ intellectual property).</p>
<p>Are you talking about changing majors? Or applying to law school after getting a degree in engineering? </p>
<p>If you're talking about the latter, there are many engineers who go on to law school. Law schools respect the rigor of an engineering degree, and it's an excellent credential for those seeking to work in patent law.</p>
<p>I have heard of plenty such people. In fact, we have one here, ariesathena.</p>
<p>However, if you're absolutely sure you want to go to law school, then I would not recommend this path, and neither would ariesathena. The reason is simple. Engineering is graded far harder and requires far more work than most other majors. Nor is the difficulty of engineering something that is weighted in any serious identifiable way by law school adcoms, which tend to be extremely numbers-oriented. The fact is, by choosing engineering as your major, you will probably get lower grades than you would have doing something else, which ultimately translates into getting into a worse law school than you probably would have otherwise, and in some cases, not being able to get into any law school at all. The unfortunate truth is that if you want to maximize your chances of getting into law school, especially an elite one, then not only do you want a high LSAT score, but you also want to go to a school that gives out lots of easy A's, and you want to choose an easy major that gives out lots of easy A's. That's the harsh truth of the matter.</p>
<p>Now don't get me wrong. I'm not saying that you can't study engineering and still get into a top-flight law school. Many people have done just that. However, the point is that by doing so, you are probably decreasing your odds. Hey, if you're one of those genius gods that can get all A's in engineering, then more power to you. Yet the fact is, most people can't do that. If you're a mere mortal and you want to go to law school, especially a top one, you are probably better off studying something easy. </p>
<p>But don't take my word for it. I'm sure ariesathena will be coming along shortly.</p>
<p>sakky: Very thoughtful and useful post from you.</p>
<p>punkrawkftblman: My classmate's father studied Electrical Engineering at UC Davis and then went on to Hastings Law School (UC System Law School). I'm not sure if being a UC applicant increased his chances for law school, but this example shows that majoring in Engineering and then going onto Law School is a viable option.</p>
<p>I doubt that being a UC applicant increased his chances for Hastings, except for the more general sense that being from a UC obviously makes it easier for you to establish California state residency (if that person wasn't already a state resident), and so in that sense, it would help you get into Hastings. </p>
<p>Again, to reiterate, I never said that it wasn't possible for an engineering student to get into law school, even an elite one. I know several MIT engineering students who are going or went to Harvard Law. But that's not the point. Just because a lot of people drive without their seat belts on and don't suffer injury doesn't mean it's a good thing to do. </p>
<p>My point is that if you are hell-bent on going to law school, then you want to maximize your chances of getting in, and engineering is not the best way to do that. If you're not all that sure that you want to go and/or you want the 'career insurance' that an engineering degree will provide, then, fair enough. But you have to honestly and candidly tell yourself that by choosing engineering, you probably are hurting your chances of getting into law school. Is that trade worth it? That's up to you. But never fool yourself into thinking there's no tradeoff.</p>
<p>I agree that if you have no real interest in engineering, and simply want to go to law school, then choosing an engineering major would not make much sense. It does appear more difficult to get good grades in engineering, and the extent to which law schools account for this is unclear and inconsistent. </p>
<p>However, if you have a sincere interest in engineering, and/or want to go into IP law, I still think getting the engineering degree may make sense. First off, as long as you have, say, a 3.0, and do decently on your LSAT, you'll get in somewhere. (The LSAT is far more important than GPA.) Secondly, if you are interested in IP law, you will be far more marketable with an engineering degree. </p>
<p>So it may come down to your personal goals and preferences. (Again, if you have no interest in IP law, and no interest in engineering, then it probably wouldn't make much sense to choose engineering when seeking out a generic pre-law major.)</p>
<p>Those whose aim is to combine engineering and law - for example, to work in patent law, law/science policy, environmental law, possibly construction law, where a knowledge of engineering is advantageous or essential, should major in engineering or some other science. If you get good enough grades and do well enough on the LSAT, you will get into law school, which may or may not be one of the top ten or fifteen schools in the country.</p>
<p>Those who want to combine law with science but might not necessarily need a full-scale engineering degree, might want to look at schools that offer a B.A. in engineering (as opposed to a B.S.) or a B.A. in engineering combined with another subject. Lafayaette College in Pennsyvania is one such school. The combination adds social science course to those required for the degree, which might increase the chance of earning a higher GPA. Note that I said "might"; it's not guaranteed for every student that taking a social science course will result in a higher degree - you still have to be able to do topflight work in that subject.</p>
<p>While I don't fundamentally disagree with the last 2 posts, I would point out that getting 'good enough' grades or a '3.0' or whatever it is that one defines to be decent grades is no gimme when it comes to engineering. There are plenty of engineering students, whether we're talking about mediocre engineering schools or elite ones like MIT, whose grades are flirting with the straight-C, 2.0 territory, and not just because they're lazy or stupid, but it's really a testament to how difficult engineering can be. Many if not most of these students would have gotten quite decent grades in some other easier major. So let's put aside the potential of getting into a top-15 law school. With a gpa that is flirting with a 2.0, you run the risk of not getting into any law school whatsoever.</p>
<p>And at least those engineering students with the straight C's are passing their classes. There are plenty of engineering students who don't even manage to do that. Many engineering students wind up on academic probation or in many cases expelled from their school for poor academic performance. The ironic thing is that they could have graduated if they had decided to major in something easy. But because they chose to major in engineering, some of them wind up with no degree at all. </p>
<p>Again, none of this is to say that you shouldn't major in engineering. The point of all this is to get you to realize the tradeoff involved. Choosing to major in engineering is not a 'costless' endeavor by any means, and you shouldn't fool yourself into thinking that it is.</p>
<p>Figures... I wander off CC for a few days and all of a sudden, I'm useful. :)</p>
<p>On its face, I agree with the advice of Cardozo and DadofSam: if you can get a 3.0 or better in engineering and a good LSAT score, you will have a shot at most law schools. </p>
<p>Now, my take on this is read the first word really carefully - IF. Many really good engineering schools just grade on a lower scale - classes are scaled to a 2.5. You will also do an absurd amount of work for those low grades. Granted, you could do an "easier" engineering, devote your life to getting excellent grades, or take easier classes when possible - but reality is that you're going to fight very hard for that 3.0 that would be a near-given in other liberal arts courses. Now, sure, a really solid LSAT score will help you, but you would be in the position of <em>needing</em> to get an excellent (165+) LSAT to be a viable law school applicant. </p>
<p>After getting into 2 of 14 law schools that I applied to (and both of them scraping in - as in, harassing admissions until they let me in, both late in the game), I just cannot be laisez-faire about the whole thing. Law school admissions is set up for poli sci majors; law school admissions officers were things like poli sci majors; most everyone who applies (okay, only about 1/3) are poli sci majors. Your application will get about a 10 minute read before a decision is made. It's a long, uphill battle to get into law school with an engineering background. Sure, people do it, but they often go to lesser-ranked law schools than they otherwise would have attended, or they have amazing LSAT scores (one engineer I know is at a top 5 law school, but had a 175 LSAT and a master's degree), or they have a master's degree or the like. </p>
<p>It is certainly possible to be an engineer and go to law school - the only requirements for getting in are an LSAT score and a bachelor's degree. That all said, it's a long, rough process that I really would not recommend to anyone.</p>
<p>Just in case it's not clear, I do not advocate going to engineering school unless one wants to be a engineer (or unless one wants to be able to combine engineering with another career). The work is difficult and you have to be able to like it.</p>
<p>"Your application will get about a 10 minute read before a decision is made."</p>
<p>Aries, just out of curiousity, would you then assume that someone without any grades might have a harder time getting into law school?</p>
<p>I'm in-house at a high tech company in Silicon Valley; here, a resume from an applicant with an engineering background plus a J.D. from good regional law school attracts as much attention as one with a one listing a non-technical bachelor's degree and a J.D. from a higher ranked school.</p>
<p>If you're interested in technical subjects, and want a law career that leverages that interest, I wouldn't shy away from engineering just to get a higher GPA.</p>
<p>Of course, Sakky can tell you that "actual results may vary."</p>
<p>Cardozo,</p>
<p>I'm not sure what you mean. I've read interviews with Ivy l.s. admissions deans, which is how I've come by my information. Without grades or without good grades? The latter is easy - i'ts a rough road. Without any grades - like pass/fail? That's also tough - because there's no real means to evaluate the applicants. </p>
<p>If you are referring to colleges that just don't grade, period... your guess is as good as mine. But, you asked for my guess, so I'll give it. Applicants are thrown in an alpha-order based on their grades and LSATs, with something for the quality of the university sometimes thrown in. The usually accept from the top down, reject from the bottom up, and make the tough decisions in the middle. If you don't have grades, there is really no way to put you in that pile. So I don't know what would happen then. My guess is that the LSAT becomes really important (which can be problematic, because the student <em>has</em> to do extremely well to get attention). My second guess is that, unless the law school has a good understanding of what those undergrads are like, it might be easier for admissions to just waitlist or reject, rather than figuring out exactly how good a student this person is. All other things being equal, I tend to advocate doing the mainstream thing, simply because that is what law school admissions is used to dealing with. </p>
<p>In short, I really can't answer that question besides to say that they'll probably have a harder time getting into certain schools.</p>
<p>Thanks, Aries, that's pretty much what I thought too.</p>
<p>"10-minute read..."</p>
<p>I knew a Stanford undergrad who hand-delivered the last part of his application one morning to the law school there, and had a rejection letter waiting for him in his box at the Stanford post office later that same day.</p>
<p>Unless you go into intellectual property law, an undergraduate degree in engineering is not a benefit. Engineering training is not known to create strong writers and law school demands capable and precise writing.</p>
<p>I really want to go to law school. I am interested in Patent Law. What schools cater to potential Patent Lawyers? I mean from the boards I've found it seems like the decision people (sorry it's late) just look at the GPA and LSATs regardless of which area of law the student wants to go into. I don't really know if I'm asking a question here but is there a way to keep a 3.3-3.5 GPA and try for a top ranked law school as a patent lawyer with an engineering undergrad? I know that schools recognize an upward trend but I know how hard it is to get a GPA moving after slating the first 2 semesters into the ground. Are there any other factors (400-500 level classes, internships, leadership positions) that law schools look like maybe a graduate school would? I don't know where this post was going. I'm going to bed.</p>
<p>If you do want Patent law, an engineering degree should certainly be helpful, and should make you more marketable. </p>
<p>Law schools are GPA focused (though some give at least some credit for engineering majors), but if you keep a 3.3+ and get a good LSAT, you should still be able to attend some strong programs. At that point, your degree should also help you find work. </p>
<p>There are a number of schools that are known for Patent law strength. I'm sure someone else can list a few good ones.</p>
<p>Does anybody know schools that are known for strong IP programs?</p>