<p>Hello,</p>
<p>I have applied for undergraduate engineering at the University of Virginia and Virginia Tech. I have heard from the Tech point of view that Tech is better at engineering. Now I want a UVa viewpoint as well. I don't want rankings, just some qualitative comparisons.</p>
<p>Thanks.</p>
<p>Better? Not really. Are you sure you want to work as an engineer forever? I can assure you that UVA will place as well in major companies like Lockheed Martin, SAIC, CSC and IBM as VT, with the added benefit of having absolutely superior recruitment in other fields like engineering management, consulting, investment banking and other business areas. The "VT is better at engineering" schtick is a result of VT having a much larger engineering school (most rankings are based on this), which is great at the graduate level but not entirely relevant in this case.</p>
<p>I think I have the best input on this. So everyone else, shush =P</p>
<p>VT and UVA are very very different, both have strengths and weaknesses. Which will you get a better education at? Neither...it really depends on you. UVA focuses much more on writing, humanities, and communication skills, which can be very important. However, VT overall sends you through more rigorous engineering courses. Neither is better, it's just what you want out of your undergrad education.
While I don't fully agree with the whole "UVA places more grads in top companies", I agree with Cav in that they are on par. VT will probably send off more hardcore engineers, whereas UVA will send more leadership-type jobs that arn't engineering-hardcore, in addition to the typical hardcores. And, you'll have more options outside of engineering if you decide that's not the path you want to take.
Cav is mostly right in that the only reason VT receives a higher ranking is because of the grad program. It is a much bigger undergrad program, and a large chunk of VT's budget goes into the school. UVA, however, is rapidly expanding the e-school like mad, and it's quite interesting to watch. A new partnership with Boeing/Rolls Royce will put our Aero program on the map, and UVA's hospital puts biomed at the top as well, in addition to the superb EE/CE and Systems programs.</p>
<p>Honestly, you can't go wrong with either school. The main differences are the campuses, people, and whether or not you want to be a hardcore engineer. Visit both places, talk to students, and trust your instinct :)</p>
<p>UVA Engineering (SEAS) has a great phrase: Jeffersonian engineers. I love it. Their point is that they want to train technically proficient engineers who also have a broader background and are able to use their engineering skill in larger context. Many SEAS grads go into consulting, and many more go back to professional schools after working in engineering. In terms of hard core, pure, engineering research, VT certainly has more visibility, but that may not be you. </p>
<p>I would say think about how you want to use your engineering knowledge. If you love detailed technical knoweldge and can't get enough, then maybe VT is better. If you want an engineering foundation, but have an interest in business management, law, medicine, etc, then I would say UVA. You can always go on to grad school in engineering someplace more technical if you find that is what you want.</p>
<p>I am a graduate of UVA Engineering. I have some of VT and MD Engineering graduates in my organization reporting to me. I do not know enough about VT to comment. </p>
<p>However, my engineering education at UVa has prepared me well and has allowed me to excel for a variety of assignments in my company. I credited that to the excellent combination of engineering and humanities courses I took. I do not know the curriculum now, but I had to take humanities courses in addition to communications course (presentation and writing) plus a thesis. I hated them at the time, but as soon as I got my first assignment, I knew that I was far ahead of my team when it comes to working with team and preparing to sell your ideas to management.</p>
<p>My comments:</p>
<ol>
<li><p>Open house on Saturday, the 23rd. See the SEAS website for more details.</p></li>
<li><p>Many colleges have a huge number of science & engineering professors where understanding their English is a challenge. I was concerned that would be the situation here. As it stands right now, I will only have one such instructor in my entire four years. In any case, all my instructors have been very helpful.</p></li>
<li><p>Lots of opportunities for research. I've got my full-time research lined up for the summer (between my 2nd and 3rd year) and I have received several unsolicited offers for additional research. The hardest part is figuring out which lab to work in.</p></li>
</ol>
<p>Thanks for the replies.So the consensus is each has its own benefits. UVa is more group oriented engineering, whereas VA tech is more technical.</p>
<p>I just wanted to tell you that in undergraduate (UG) eduaction what you get is a rather broad knowledge of the subject field. In other words, when you go to an engineering school for a certain discipline, you are required to take classes in broad areas in order for you to learn general knowledges about the discipline, not too deep and not too much focused in any one area. Graduate school offers more focused and in-depth education & research, however, that is a totally different discussion.</p>
<p>Therefore, what you will get out of UG engineering education is something that can prepare you to perform basic engineering tasks, be able to choose a more specialized area in a certain discipline, and be ready for tackling more rigorous research later on if you want. </p>
<p>Companies, when they hire fresh grads with BS degrees, normally look for a "generalist" in the subject field that they are interested in, and not necessarily expect to find a specialist in any particular area of the field.</p>
<p>My point is this. If you are only concerned about getting a good UG engineering education, it probably won't matter much where you get it as long as the school has a reasonably good engineering program, such as VT, UVa and many others. You should be able to get an entry-level job virtually anywhere from any of these schools providing that you have good grades.</p>
<p>What matters more then is, school experience, quality of college life, size, cost, location, enviornment, atmosphere, people, culture, reputation of the school as a whole & etc, etc. And I believe these should be more important factors in making your decision knowing that UG engieering education in general does not differ much between any of those schools.</p>
<p>Hope it helps when you decide between VT ad UVa...</p>
<p>Thanks for the helpful reply phdinee. Lol I don't have the privilege of choosing between VT and UVa right now. I hope I will.</p>
<p>My son is also a junior and looking at both VT and UVA for Aerospace Engineering and for NROTC. We have read that, at VT, only about 50% of the students who start out as Engineering majors as freshman finish with a degree in Engineering. Is that the same for UVA? We have not seen any statistics on the UVA website. Also, many of the huge Engineering publics are known for having Calc and Physics classes intended as weed-outs. Is it any different at UVA or, since the stats of the Engineering students there are a little higher, do they just not result in as much weeding out? Thanks for any help.</p>
<p>Chris, I don't have stats about retention in the E school...I'll see if I can track something down on that.</p>
<p>Some current SEAS students post here and I hope they'll chime in with their thoughts, but the faculty I know (and I don't know a great number of them) do not see any value in "weeding out" students. They want their students to be successful. </p>
<p>Now, there are obviously students who realize engineering isn't their thing and leave to do something different in CLAS (the College), but I don't hear about students leaving SEAS in droves because they failed out via an intro course.</p>
<p>SEAS made a video with student perspectives on the school. SEAS</a> >> Department Brochures There's also a link on Dean J's blog.</p>
<p>Regarding the retention rate, it isn't great, especially for women. I think the retention rate are probably similar. UVA's might be even less, since there are so many other great opportunities. You will see a lot of students transfer to Arts & Sciences from the first to the second year.</p>
<p>I know the faculty and the administration works very hard to retain its engineering students, especially women. There is no such thing as a weed-out course. No one wants their students not to succeed. There are all kinds of tutoring available from SEAS and I tutored calc and physics last semester. All my instructors and TA's have been very helpful. It turns out that they are human beings too. They care. No one wants bad evaluations.</p>
<p>I think the problem is that first year students aren't nearly as prepared for the sciences as they think they are. High school was easy, but now the first years are facing material for the first time that requires some study time and effort. Some students struggle as a result. When they see their hallmates in "Arts & Crafts" partying at all hours, they wonder if it is worth the effort, especially if grad school is in the plans. </p>
<p>Engineering can be hard and is a lot of work. I have 3 tests and a paper due this week as we approach the drop date this week.</p>
<p>I think it is worth the effort, though, and I couldn't be happier here except for the crappy dorms. I get a lot of satisfaction in learning how to make things and help develop new science. Can a marketing or accounting major say the same?</p>
<p>
[QUOTE]
I think the problem is that first year students aren't nearly as prepared for the sciences as they think they are.
[/QUOTE]
That's an excellent point that applies to a good number of subject areas. For example, a professor in environmental sciences (and our dept is supposed to have one of the best undergrad programs around) said that the AP Environmental Sciences courses really don't prepare students for the college level work.</p>
<p>I'll let you in on a little secret: engineering is hard. Really hard. But, people do graduate with engineering degrees, so it's not like it's beyond reach of anyone who applies their self.
Retention rate at VT is so darn low because it's program is some four times larger than UVA's, and they count kids who transfer out of the program and the school (like me, I transferred out of VT, but I'm still in engineering, so it's hard to say whether I should be part of the retention rate or not). UVA's retention ratings only apply to SEAS, and they have a different number for retention of the university. However, I think the percentage of kids who drop out of engineering is about the same at both schools: VT it's tough and kids find out they don't want to be hardcore engineers, and UVA kids see the huge list of other majors in the College/Comm School and ditch out. All in all, I think more minorities and women drop out, but that's slowly declining I think.<br>
As for weed-out courses, I believe that they do exist. But, it's not like the professor is making a goal of failing a huge majority of the class. They just make it harder than usual in order to "weed-out" those who may not want to work as hard as engineering will require. There's no sense in making early classes easy to transition kids better, because 3rd/4th year classes may be much harder, and by then, it's very very hard to transfer out. So, if you throw a calc II or physics I class at students, and they realize "hey, I got a D, maybe I really shouldn't be here", then it's not like the professor has purposefully failed them, it's just they made them realize the workload. That same D-kid may say "hey, I need to work harder!" and end up staying and ends up doing very well. So, while some say "oh it's a weeder course, they're going to fail me", it should be instead looked at as "maybe they're trying to show me something".<br>
Engineering is a lot of work, time, effort, and is quite taxing on one's emotional/physical well-being. But, with time management and some dedication to what you're doing, engineering is not all that bad. There will be crappy weeks, and there will be weeks were work is minimal. While my "Arts & Crafts" friends go out a ton and can participate in a million activities, I'm sometimes stuck inside studying or doing work. However, the overall satisfaction of succeeding in engineering is amazing. And it's not like we don't have a life, I get out plenty and do a slew of activities around Grounds. But, we're second-most important to the world behind doctors, in my mind, and thus schools can't just give out free degrees. People's lives will be in our hands one day, so some just arn't cut out for it. I don't want to sound negative, but I'm just trying to point out that yes, there is a lower retention rate for e-school, and yes, there are very hard courses. But, if you're child is up for it, go for it!</p>
<p>Also, I highly suggest that you take a tour of each e-schools. I'm a tour guide here and if you come during the week there's usually only a few people, if any, waiting for a tour. You'll get a chance to ask any and all questions for an hour, maybe more. There's nothing better than hearing a view of the e-school from an actual student. And please, ASK QUESTIONS! We'll answer just about anything, but we don't really answer questions on logisitics such as AP credits, placement tests, or anything that you'd need a definite answer on because we don't want to get it wrong. For those, just go to the Dean's office. But anything from student life to classes to teacher quality to summer options, we'd be happy to answer. The tours start at 1pm in Thorton Hall lobby (e-school lobby), but you can arrive as early as you'd like and can stay as long as the tour guide will allow after the tour.</p>
<p>Thanks for the helpful replies again. I have some questions:
1) Is engineering freshman year basically like high school AP courseloaded year?
2) If it engineering seems unsuitable for me, how long do I have to decide that I don't want engineering?
3) What type of engineering is the one where electronics and gadgets are designed?
4) Why is engineering called a "school" while arts and sciences is called "college of ?"</p>
<p>Thanks</p>
<p>1) No. I'd say it's more work, less hand-holding, and a lot more distractions. I took AP Calc/Physics, and then 3 more senior year, and got all As. Freshman year, it went to straight Bs pretty much. If you seek out help when needed, and spend enough time on the work, you should be ok. Just don't expect it to be as straightforward and easy as high school. And, don't think it's death.</p>
<p>2) I'd say give it a year. Technically, here, you can't switch into another school (a-school, college, comm) until the conclusion of the spring semesters. But, I know people who after their fall semesters just dropped their e-school classes and began taking classes in the other schools (but the classes can't be restricted to that school, otherwise that gets a tad tricky). I say give it at least a year before you really drop it, unless you totally bomb first semester. The first year is rough because it's basic classes and they're tough. But, third semester when you get into your major classes you actually see your major and what you'll do, and fourth semester is even better.</p>
<p>3) Electrical or Computer Engineering (EE, CpE). There's a range of concentrations from signal processing, nanotechnology, solid-state electronics, etc. EE is actually my major, and I'm in my fourth semester currently. It's a smaller major, one of the smallest in fact, with only about 40 people per graduating class. But, it means a lot more personal time with professors, tighter-knit groups, and overall, more resources. </p>
<p>4) I think maybe because our grad program isn't separate? Who knows, who cares, it's still a top-notch education with a degree and everything at both. It's a minor detail.</p>
<p>You should give it a year. Grant it, I didn't, but my situation is different. I didn't switch out because I couldn't handle it (I am taking a course sequence that is easily harder then the E school) but because I realized I didn't want to be an engineer. So I basically did what shoe described and ended up taking (mostly) college classes while still being in the e-school officially.</p>
<p>So far I am glad I made the decision I did, but if you are really having trouble deciding, spend a year in the E school and you will be glad you did. Most (non-science) college majors don't take THAT many credit hours, so you will be fine just taking e school classes first year, and if you decide to transfer out and major in a science then you will probably have taken most of the intro sequence anyways if you play your cards right.</p>
<p>Thanks for the input.</p>
<p>Yes, thanks all for the helpful input. I will be taking my son up to UVA during Spring Break in a month or so and he intends to do the information session, campus tour, and the SEAS tour. We will also visit the NROTC facilities and he hopes to sit in on a class. Since we will be coming on a Friday, are there generally good classes around mid-afternoon that would be helpful for him to attend? </p>
<p>By the way, I am well aware of the difficulty involved with Engineering. I graduated from a University much larger than either VT or UVA. I was in the Business school and had friends who transferred from the Engineering school and did extremely well in Business. I have great admiration for those who can stick to it and make it through. I hope someday my son is one of them. Attending a large school can be somewhat of a culture shock for an eighteen- year-old. It certainly was for me. I had very little contact with profs and had many classes on TV replay. The professor would hold a live session at 8:00am and, the rest of the day would just be the taped version of that class shown on a TV to a room full of about 80 students. Not a lot of fun and, if you're not aware of what to expect, it can be a bit overwhelming. It took a lot of time for me to adjust.</p>
<p>The good part is that having that experience will give me a good frame of reference for discussions with my son. He'll have a much better grasp than I did no matter where he chooses to attend. Thanks again and best of luck to everyone.</p>