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</p>
<p>Suit yourself. I can’t make this stuff up. It’s gone beyond funny to sad.</p>
<p>I stand by those words as much now as I did then. </p>
<p>You mistake your assumptions for fact, then damn the institution, all it’s graduates, and all it’s students. You won’t, for one second, consider your assumptions do not match the larger reality of the institution and it’s graduates. </p>
<p>Won’t you consider for a second if what you claim were true, these kids would truly suck as engineers? I mean absolutely blow! I’m talking unemployable.</p>
<p>The things you claim are missing or inadequate are so fundamental to Electrical Engineering it would be IMMEDIATELY apparent to any employer. These are not subtle flaws. They are gross and debilitating and broad in scope. </p>
<p>That is why your claims are so absurd. That is why your claims are so harmful and insulting to those children going to Stevens and those children who have graduated. That is why your claims are mean and malicious and insensitive and irresponsible… and yes… sad. Very, very sad. </p>
<p>This has been one long self serving attempt to defend your initial unfair bashing of several good universities. You’d rather give a whole school full of hard working kids an awful reputation than admit you may have been rash to begin with.</p>
<p>How can you, as a man of science, arrive at conclusions that conflict so blatantly with every other aspect of the system you’re examining?</p>
<p>How do you explain that Stevens is only two places from MIT in average salary rankings for engineering schools? MIT is #3, Stevens is #5 in the country. How do you explain their employment placement percentages are similar MIT’s? How do you explain their engineers have the reputation they do?</p>
<p>Can someone please close this thread! Its no longer helpful!</p>
<p>Maikai, buried in your wild emotion is complete circular logic. I can’t be right because it would be absurd. That’s not logic. </p>
<p>My initial claim was that Stevens seems to teach the classes that the professors know how to teach, not what’s really needed. </p>
<p>I just showed you compelling evidence from their own website that that Stevens hasn’t taught either of the two undergraduate engineering electromagnetics listed in their catalog in 5 consecutive terms and they certainly don’t require it - how could they! And you have provided zero evidence to the contrary. </p>
<p>They offer a logic class - computer engineers take it, yet don’t require EEs to take it, just Mechanics of Solids, Thermo and Materials. It’s right there on their website. Why would they lie on their own website. Why should someone like me taking a critical look at the department not rely on what they say. </p>
<p>Instead of picking on me, since you’re a big shot executive in electrical engineering and such a big fan of Stevens, why don’t you inquire why they impose this substandard curriculum on the students who pay their tuition. Why won’t they hire an electromagnetics professor and teach the courses. Re-accreditation isn’t due until 2015-2016. </p>
<p>I really hope that they get it right - they just hired a young woman who might just be able to teach these courses, but until they actually offer them and require them instead of all of that filler, I’ll call it like I see it. </p>
<p>I certainly have nothing against Stevens graduates or students. They are the victims here after all. Maybe I can save some future victims the trouble.</p>
<p>darkaeroga, maybe there is a teachable moment on how to differentiate what’s in a catalog from what’s really offered. Maybe it’s valuable to potential students how to compare curricula. </p>
<p>Sorry if this offends you. I’ll stop now.</p>
<p>ClassicRockerDad,</p>
<p>There might be a teachable moment here. To tell the difference between what’s in an online catalog, meant for public consumption and what is really offered at the school. My son does not interface with the system we are looking at. There is a completely different internal system which we do not have access to. Without access to that internal class scheduling intranet, we have no way of knowing what exactly is being offered or when it’s being offered.</p>
<p>You are damning the school for what I believe is simply the website not keeping up with and doing a bad job of matching the actual curriculum. It’s probably supported by students or web designers.</p>
<p>It’s called rational thinking and presumption of innocence. I would no sooner believe a student baker would not learn about yeast before graduating or a car mechanic not learn about spark advance before working on engines. </p>
<p>The things you say are deficient in Steven’s EE program; fundamental physics for communication, fundamental digital theory and practical apps of boolean algebra and sequential logic… these are just as fundamental to an electrical engineer as yeast to a baker or spark timing to an engine mechanic.</p>
<p>First you said they don’t teach certain things. Then I show you course numbers and descriptions of exactly that. Then you say they haven’t been taught recently because of a site page that clearly has gaps… anyone looking at those pages can see major gaps in info. I can tell you my son took two classes over this past Summer. One of which was not even listed on those pages… and that should be their second most recent page. </p>
<p>Now, you’ve again taken another step to damn Stevens, as I fully knew you would. You now suggest their existing faculty doesn’t have, and hasn’t had, the academic chops to teach this subjects until they hired this new woman you speak of. Oh my friggin’ G-d! Now you claim to know the credentials of the entire existing faculty!!! …and found they are all grossly unworthy?! …except for this new female hire? Do you even listen to yourself? Where do you stop?</p>
<p>You say you’ll stop. We’ll see.</p>
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</p>
<p>Many, but not all, schools do make the actual schedule of class offerings for the current and upcoming semesters available on the public web. Indeed, such things can be useful for prospective students in determining what is actually offered on a regular basis, and what the class sizes and enrollments are if listed (although the latter may be more likely to be hidden from public view).</p>
<p>ucbalumnus,
I can tell you as a father of a Stevens student, what we see on their website is not the class offering the students work from. It is a completely separate and different internal system.</p>
<p>I don’t even have access to it. If I did, I’d look it up and end this. But I’m not about to draw my kid into this ridiculousness. I’m not even sure he’d have access to the electrical engineering section anyway.</p>
<p>The only thing, IMHO, Stevens is guilty of is having a crappy website.</p>
<p>And I’d be surprised if the course offering listed on university’s public websites were the actual course offerings of the university. I’d think they would be copies and one would hope someone in IT would use care to make sure they are up to date and accurate, but I doubt we’re looking directly at the actual course database when we view their public website. There would be too much vulnerability if we were.</p>
<p>ClassicRockerDad,
Just to set the record straight. I never said I was big shot executive with my company. Did not mean to suggest that. I said I’m very senior. I’ve been with the company for a very long time… decades… a “plank owner” so to speak. As such I have a rather envious deal. I do have my own little kingdom, and I’m proud of it, but it’s a little kingdom all the same. I do have the connections, the respect and the offers to be higher if I were to move to the West Coast, but it’s the price one pays for being so remote from the “Mecca” of my industry. </p>
<p>The choice is to be in the center of my industry (Silicon Valley) or the center of the known universe (NYC). For quality of life for myself and my family, I pick the center of the universe. </p>
<p>Just wanted to set the record straight.</p>
<p>Someone pointed out my grammatical mistake privately. Thank you. “…enviable deal.” it should be. Although I am envious sometimes, that wasn’t my message. ;-)</p>
<p>English was never a strong subject for me. 
Struggled with it all my life. Thank goodness for spell and grammar checker in Word! </p>
<p>Hey! Wanna complain? Let’s complain about the weak a-s English curriculum engineers take!</p>
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</p>
<p>Of course, the public web site has read-only access. It may not necessarily be updated in real time (maybe once per day or few days if not real time, depending on the school), but that should be sufficient for prospective students looking to see typical actual offerings and class sizes. Students have to log in to change which classes they are enrolled in.</p>
<p>[Search</a> Fall - Online Schedule Of Classes](<a href=“http://schedule.berkeley.edu/srchfall.html]Search”>http://schedule.berkeley.edu/srchfall.html)</p>
<p>[Schedule</a> of Classes Home Page](<a href=“http://www.registrar.ucla.edu/schedule/schedulehome.aspx]Schedule”>http://www.registrar.ucla.edu/schedule/schedulehome.aspx)</p>
<p>[SOLAR</a> | DoIT - Division of Information Technology, Stony Brook University<a href=“note%20link%20to%20public%20access”>/url</a></p>
<p>[url=<a href=“http://sis.rutgers.edu/soc/]Rutgers”>Schedule of Classes - Rutgers University]Rutgers</a> University - Online Schedule of Classes](<a href=“http://it.stonybrook.edu/services/solar]SOLAR”>SOLAR | Division of Information Technology)</p>
<p>Very interesting. The few colleges I tried to look for such a thing offered nothing. I looked at some similarly sized schools to Stevens, but perhaps didn’t look as thoroughly as you.</p>
<p>But I clearly see what you’re talking about here. I dare not challenge your “many colleges” comment for fear of an extended list showing up in this thread. ;-)</p>
<p>But like you implied, these are just mirrors… kept up to date at some regular interval. Even read only access will present some significant cyber liabilities. You really don’t want the public in at all.</p>
<p>All of these schools are significantly larger than Stevens and have more money to throw at such things. Smaller schools, especially smaller schools located in incredibly high cost areas, like Stevens, have much more economic pressure than the schools you linked to. We can say Stevens’ IT dept is behind the times, but it’s more likely this is an intentional decision to spend their money where it gives the biggest bang for the school and it’s students.</p>
<p>I’m confused. Why are we saying that Stevens’ IT department is behind the times, or that the reason the course is not there is somehow because of IT not putting it there due to economic constraints. Why, if either previous assumption was true, would multiple other current courses be listed. The most palatable reason is that the courses simply have not been offered.</p>
<p>It doesn’t really matter in the end. It has ABET. If it truly sucks, ABET will be taken away, if it doesn’t, it will keep it. You learn the majority of what you do in the industry anyway.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>As far as budget-strapped colleges go, here is an on-line schedule from such a school:</p>
<p>[Schedule</a> of Classes/Catalogs : Admissions + Records](<a href=“http://web.peralta.edu/admissions/schedule-of-classescatalogs/]Schedule”>http://web.peralta.edu/admissions/schedule-of-classescatalogs/)</p>
<p>Here are schedules for some small four year schools with an engineering focus:</p>
<p>[Class</a> Hour Schedules](<a href=“http://sis.rpi.edu/stuclshr.htm]Class”>Class Hour Schedules)
<a href=“Sign In”>Sign In;
[MIT</a> Subject Listing & Schedule Fall 2013](<a href=“http://student.mit.edu/catalog/index.cgi]MIT”>MIT Subject Listing & Schedule IAP/Spring 2024)
<a href=“https://mycampus.rit.edu/psc/sasrch/EMPLOYEE/HRMS/c/COMMUNITY_ACCESS.CLASS_SEARCH.GBL?&[/url]”>https://mycampus.rit.edu/psc/sasrch/EMPLOYEE/HRMS/c/COMMUNITY_ACCESS.CLASS_SEARCH.GBL?&</a></p>
<p>It seems like Stevens Institute of Technology is not as backward or afraid of whatever cyber liabilities you are concerned about as you are excusing it to be in this respect:</p>
<p>[&tserve_tiphost_code=[TipZero]"]Stevens</a> Institute of Technology class schedule](<a href=“https://es.stevens.edu/ia-bin/tsrvweb.exe?&WID=W&tserve_tip_write=||WID&ConfigName=rcrssecthp1&ReqNum=1&TransactionSource=H&tserve_trans_config=rcrssecthp1.cfg&tserve_host_code=[HostZero]&tserve_tiphost_code=[TipZero]"]Stevens”>https://es.stevens.edu/ia-bin/tsrvweb.exe?&WID=W&tserve_tip_write=||WID&ConfigName=rcrssecthp1&ReqNum=1&TransactionSource=H&tserve_trans_config=rcrssecthp1.cfg&tserve_host_code=[HostZero)</p>
<p>ucbalumnus,</p>
<p>First, there are always exceptions to a rule. People with limited funds often wind up spending those funds on things they shouldn’t. Why should colleges be so different?</p>
<p>Second, the site you point to for Stevens is the exact site ClassicRockerDad pointed to and I referred to when I said my son took two Summer classes and one of them is not listed. If you look through all the listings there, it becomes clear it is not complete. It is not complete.</p>
<p>Chucktown,</p>
<p>You and I are actually on the same page, but my early claim that ABET would be pulled if what he claims is true was rejected early on… for no good reason… other than it put a wrench in the gears of his argument. ;-)</p>
<p>The lack of detailed descriptions of certain course material on the Stevens site has served as fodder for a mean-spirited, vicious attack against my son’s school’s EE department. My comments about the Stevens’ IT department being behind the times is because what they offer on their web site, in terms of course descriptions and offerings, does not seem to be accurate for two reasons:
- I know it’s not accurate due to my son’s own schedule this past summer.
- For the reason you just pointed out. It can’t be. ABET would pull their accreditation. </p>
<p>In addition to the ABET liability, I’d think high end schools (Ivies and the like) would not accept any of these kids into their PhD programs (they have). Industry would immediately see these engineers as sub-par and Stevens would lose the stellar reputation it enjoys, which is what pulls kids (and their parents) into it… to pay one of the highest tuition brackets in the country. My son’s full tuition (room, board, books, whatever) for 2013/2014 is estimated (by Stevens) to be $62,350.</p>
<p>Stevens would have everything to lose and absolutely nothing to gain by not offering the course material in question. It would be incredibly penny wise and pound foolish. They would destroy everything the University has worked for since their founding in 1870. From every angle one could consider these egregious allegations, they are absurd. </p>
<p>The one and only hook that ClassicRockerDad can hang his argumentative hat on is this lack of detailed course offerings and descriptions. Considering the weight of everything else about the school and considering the online offering is clearly missing items (you don’t need to have a child attending to see that), it is very safe to assume the website simply does not reflect the full reality of the curriculum.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>It is not clear to an outsider that it is significantly inaccurate (after all, how do you tell that a “missing” class is really not offered this semester, versus being offered but not listed in the supposed class schedule?). If it really is significantly inaccurate, then it is worse to have it than not have anything at all (money spent for results of negative value).</p>
<p>There are semesters with hardly anything in them. There are quite a few incomplete offerings. Which some would argue as proof of a problem, but that gets back into the circle of it couldn’t possibly be that way. </p>
<p>I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. I think this was him hiding in the minutia. I honestly feel if it wasn’t this, he wouldn’t stop until he found something else. His initial arguments/reasons didn’t hold, so he dug and found this “bone.” The fact his bone conflicts with everything else is apparently irrelevant. </p>
<p>If you drove up and I took a tire gauge to your tires and said that gauge read all your tires were dead flat, you’d laugh at me. You’d tell me the tires “look” inflated. They “feel” inflated. Your car drives just fine… handles well around the corners and doesn’t pull to either side. You’d assume my gauge must be faulty because all other indicators… ALL OTHER INDICATORS… indicate there is plenty of air in your tires. That’s exactly what’s happening here. </p>
<p>His accusations are so profound they are the equivalent of reading a dead flat. Stevens’ own website is the faulty tire gauge he’s using.</p>