<p>Any feedback on English/Creative writing program at Michigan versus NYU and Boston Univ?</p>
<p>I am not sure how the programs compare specifically. But as far as BU vs Michigan goes, I know the overall atmospheres/student bodies differ greatly in terms of intellect. At my high school, the people who get into BU are a huge leap down from the people who get into Michigan. BU accepts around 40 kids from my school each year (average GPA ~3.3 in very easy classes) while Michigan accepts around 10 (average GPA ~3.8 in rather challenging classes). With that said, though both are fantastic institutions, I have reason to believe Michigan would be far more academically stimulating in all subject areas – including English/creative writing. </p>
<p>who cares, just go for the cheaper school for a program that won’t pay. the IRR is low either way.</p>
<p>Wow @bearcats let me guess you are studying science or math?</p>
<p>I apologize for my honesty… not</p>
<p>A plus in Michigan’s favor is the Hopwood Awards - the oldest (since 1933) and most prestigious collegiate writing competition in the nation. Substantial prize money to the winners - it’s helped my kid pay off his tuition.</p>
<p>What are your career plans? Teaching English? </p>
<p>Those all seem like very expensive schools for an English degree. I would probably never pay full tuition for that for my kids or anything</p>
<p>bearcats, many English majors go to Law school. </p>
<p>right, and if you are going to law school afterwards, you should especially choose the cheaper degree, since law school admissions is almost solely about the LSAT and GPA. The value of the undergrad degree is especially low in this case.
Given how little an entry level attorney gets paid outside of big law, you especially do not want to waste that money on an expensive undergrad degree that has little incremental return.</p>
<p>That’s correct. I was not questioning that point. I was merely commenting on the worth of an English degree. It can serve a person well. </p>
<p>I agree that if one of those options is significantly cheaper than the others, it should be seriously considered. And while it is accurate to say that law schools focus primarily on GPA and LSA, the rigor of the undergraduate institution is also considered. That explains why Michigan and NYU will generally be more highly regarded than BU by Law schools. </p>
<p>Finally, Michigan and NYU both have elite Law Schools and place disproportionately well into their respective programs. So if cost does not favor BU, or if cost is not a concern at all, I would recommend Michigan or NYU over BU.</p>
<p>I think you misunderstood my original point. I never said an English degree is pointless. I said PAYING UP for an undergraduate English degree from a slightly to moderately more prestigious university is pointless, as you would almost never get good return on your incremental investment. (of course, unless you do english/history at harvard and end up doing banking/consulting)</p>
<p>With the “cheap money” that comes with the US government basically guaranteeing all student debt, too many people are saddled with crippling debt that are non-dischargeable even in bankruptcy later on in life.</p>
<p>I know this doesn’t jive with the “everyone is equally valuable to the society and economy, just in different ways” narrative progressives love to sell, but the hiring market speaks for itself. I apologize in advance for being a realist and trying to warn people of the truth. An English degree is just less gainfully employable than a lot of other degrees, and therefore one should more carefully consider the monetary investment in such.</p>
<p>@Bearcats, I’m not sure Arthur Miller would share your neutrality about English at Michigan 
Served him rather well, I’d say!</p>
<p>@Afromnc, Michigan has an excellent program and one of the best MFA programs in creative writing you’ll find. </p>
<p>That said, what the guys are intimating is that the return-on-investment (strictly financially speaking) of a typical English degree doesn’t generally support paying the kind of OOS tuition at Michigan or general tuition rate at NYU and BU. So don’t plan on being “typical” :)</p>
<p>However, if you have the means and family support OR aid to make these options viable (if relying on aid, Michigan is more of a crap shoot financially but not likely worse than NYU) and are strictly concerned about the quality of program then Michigan would be my pick for strength unless I was bent on Tsch because I wanted to write for the entertainment industry.</p>
<p>In the case of the latter, eg screenwriting, I might choose Tisch at NYU, though as folks like Larry Kasdan can attest, Michigan is no slouch on the film/screenwriting front either.</p>
<p>The craft of producing or analyzing quality literature may be to some degree reliant on environment, but not quite the same way that more processed-oriented or quantified disciplines such as Engineering, which is more akin to vocational training, are. If you’re interested in writing, for example, grad programs like Iowa’s writing MFA are accessible based on the quality of your portfolio. But an excellent grounding UG obviously is a worthwhile investment intrinsically speaking.</p>
<p>But if you have great stats and aren’t worried about the cost, well, in my books, Yale would be worth a try too :)</p>
<p>Best wishes in your journey!</p>
<p>I appreciate the comments that provided useful feedback about the programs and how they compare. Must admit to being a bit surprised at the strong commentary on my choice of major, but I have run into similar points of view before. I plan on studying Creative Writing and the schools I applied to are generally well known for their programs. I believe that a strong program behind my degree will be even more important with my choice of major. I plan on becoming fluent in at least one other language, studying and doing coop or experiential learning abroad for at least a year, and probably looking for employment involving a lot of travel and using my language skills after graduation while I work on getting published. Ultimate job would be in a publishing house, but I realize those are hard to come by. I was admitted to the LSA Honors program, NYU with freshman year in London, and BU with Presidential scholarship (also admitted to UNC and Northeastern), and I’m trying to make an informed decision. I was looking for feedback from people on here who might be in these programs and might have some information that’s not in the literature. For those of you who offered that I appreciate it! </p>
<p>Everyone is entitled to their opinion about the worth of any particular degree, and everyone is, or perhaps should be trying to find their path following their interests and talents. While there are certainly jobs readily available to graduating engineers, there are also jobs for people who communicate well. Just as every company on the planet needs someone who can manage, customize and run their computer systems, every successful company on the planet also needs people who communicate well. Generally speaking, most highly talented technical people do not communicate well. It’s important to be well informed and realistic, because choosing your collegiate path is a very big decision. It might be time, however, to give the liberal arts folks a break. It’s not a contest between the majors. Not really. I won’t be competing for a job that an engineer wants, or vice versa. Again, thanks for the information!</p>
<p>Outstanding English Department, including the #2 creative writing department in the country. Regular old Englisn is also first rate. </p>
<p>Televue1, Ph.D. in English</p>
<p>@afromnc Don’t be discouraged by some posters on here. Their only definition of success is a 6-7 figure salary and a life on Wall Street. Not everything in life need be subjected to a sterile cost/benefit analysis, as long as you are not making unwise choices that will overly burden you in the long run.</p>
<p>@afromnc - with your additional information about intent, I’m still liking Michigan for you, but will say that in terms of location for publishing houses, it might be worth checking to see if NYU has any solid internship opportunities or history with the bevy of publishing houses in NYC.</p>
<p>And just in case you’re interested, the RC (“residential college”) program at Umich which typically has small, Socratic seminar/lectures has a very intensive/immersive language element to it. You might want to check into that to see if it pairs with honors.</p>
<p>Just a tip employment-wise even though you’re not doing j-school…publish/write/edit as much and as often as you can as an undergrad if you’d like to explore travel writing or any publishing environment. </p>
<p>Even in digital publishing or agency work, having those tear sheets is really valuable in terms of standing out, doubly so in publishing. I just hired a production person (needed to be adept with graphic design software and content marketing/copywriting) and she was the hands-down the most obvious candidate in this case because she’d written for her university newspaper for four years and served as editor for two of those years and written some nice travel articles. I could quickly see from her work that she understood the publishing environment and see direct evidence of her skill. </p>
<p>At any rate, you have great choices. If all things are financially equal, go for fit.</p>
<p>I’d be a bit concerned with NYU’s First Year in London … unless that’s your first choice. Personally, I wouldn’t want to spend my first year in a foreign country; there’ll be plenty of opportunities to study abroad in your sophomore/junior years.</p>
<p>Years ago, I have several students who got stuck with NYU’s First Year at Florence program (not their own choices). We had the impression that NYU was trying to fill the classes of that program. Not sure if it is still true today.</p>
<p>^^I totally agree. </p>
<p>The liberal studies program at NYU has grown over time. I’m aware of some of the information on the web about it and I’ve done a lot of research and spoken both in person and on the phone with the director of global programs. I would end up spending freshman year in london, then back to NY for sophomore year, and then either move into English program at CAS or stay and earn the Global Liberal Studies degree. If I do global liberal studies degree I would end up abroad for junior year taking classes and working, which would help to solidify my fluency in a second language. Appreciate the heads up!</p>
<p>Why would anyone want to spend freshman year AWAY from your university? That is the time to meet friends and get adjusted to college life. I suppose if Michigan were like NYU, a school without a real cohesive campus, it might make some sense. </p>