<p>I've been reading threads on prep student schedules and seeing a lot of variety in levels. Students refer to placement testing to find the right level of math or science and schedules seem to reflect the level coming into the school.</p>
<p>Can anyone help me understand how advanced humanities are scheduled at prep schools? I was looking at Exeter and it appears that students in 9th grade take one level and students in 10th grade take another level. It looks like the only flexibility comes in upper level electives. Is that accurate? Are there levels of courses? Can a 9th grader end up in senior electives rather than 9th grade English if warranted? Are there other schools that offer more flexibility in placement for advanced students?</p>
<p>Exeter is does it the same way as Andover. If you enter as a 9th grader, the English and History required courses are the same until you reach the 11th grade. Both schools have strong English and History departments and the there is no variance from the required courses until the diploma requirements are met. The Trimester schedule gives you the opportunity for a variety of elective 1 trimester classes.</p>
<p>What firstgen says about Exeter is true for English, but not history. Students are required to take 2 terms of history outside of American history, which they all must take three terms of. Most take American history junior year, but not all. There are many history electives. Same for religion electives; you have to take two (three? can’t remember), but the level and the particular courses vary by interest. </p>
<p>English is just what you think–no electives until senior year. Exeter has a very specific and unique (in my view) approach to English, and each year builds carefully on the next. English classes are some of the most challenging offered at Exeter, at least in terms of getting an A. My kid was “advanced” in English and, if papers and comments are any indication, was consistently challenged in English all the way through. </p>
<p>While there are doubtless going to be stronger and weaker students in each class, a lot of the levelling goes on in the admit. process. If you think about it, there’s not really the same need for levels in the humanities that there is in science/mathematics because study of the humanities is based more on analysis and evaluation than on absorbing content or increasingly difficult problem sets. Everyone can read Shakespeare or a book of poetry; better readers will probably grasp the texts on a deeper level, but everyone at the table will be bright enough to have a good discussion. Better writers will simply write better or more complex essays–and their teachers can easily address the different strengths and weaknesses of writers on an individual basis.</p>
<p>I would consider that to be a big hole in the Exeter diploma requirement. A good liberal arts education should always include the study of Western civilization. The study of civilization from 1000-1750 is necessary to develop a well rounded world view. History does matter!</p>
<p>Not only does Exeter not require the study of Western civilization (though it certainly offers those classes), it requires instead that students take a history class “outside the Western tradition,” in order to help foster worldviews that extend beyond the West. The two required religion courses also give students a grounding in both ethics and the world faiths that have undergirded so many civilizaitons. So, yes, that’s a difference, but perhaps not a hole at a school that emphasizes “from every quarter, to every quarter.” To each his own, however, and all good stuff to consider.</p>
<p>And a correction to my earlier post: students must take three terms of non-U.S. history and three terms of U.S. history. It’s possible to take more history as electives.</p>
<p>Would chime in that Loomis has an incredible humanities program, adding Economics into the above mix. DC has really made great strides, and now entering junior year gets into the elective/advanced phase of humanities. If you want to look at a slightly smaller and more low key BS environment than the academies, with top notch humanities faculty and curriculum, I suggest you check out Loomis and look in particular at how their English department describes the process of learning critical inquiry and writing.</p>
<p>Kaibab3, most prep schools do not schedule incoming students into different levels of humanities courses. The courses are taught at a high level, and as Classicalmama notes, more advanced students are expected and encouraged to write more advanced essays. </p>
<p>Most prep schools teach writing well; small classes and an emphasis on writing teach students to write. My children write more essays than their friends in public school, and they receive detailed feedback on their writing. </p>
<p>@firstgenbsp112, many history courses, including the AP, have been revamped to a more global perspective. If you look at the College Board’s website, you’ll notice that many of the AP and SAT II tests are more global than they were in the 80s, with the notable exception of European History and American History.</p>
<p>My oldest child attended an Episcopalian boarding school, St. Mark’s School. Students are required to take Religion courses, which are courses in either Ethics/Philosophy, or the comparative study of religions and their history.</p>
<p>Periwinkle, I meant to say World History as opposed to Western Civilization. During the period of 1000-1700 80-90% of the Worlds population lived in USSR/Asia/Middle East/Europe. In my opinion, to make this an optional part of a high school curriculum leaves a void in developing a well rounded world view. Fortunately, my son will be attending Phillips Academy and they feel the same way because it is a required part of their history sequence. It is kind of like the rush to upper level math courses, everyone wants to rush through algebra to get on to calculus. Yet, algebra is the foundation for every upper level math course.</p>
<p>Thanks for the information. While I can’t comment on the rigor of any Exeter class, I have found that level matters in the humanities just as it does in math. Since discussion drives so much of the learning, having peers who are capable of deeper thinking makes the discussion more useful. If one student has read a Shakespeare play several times and studied it in depth, she is unlikely to benefit from many novel thoughts from other students just encountering it. While writing is something that can be endlessly improved, it seems that beyond a certain level it makes more sense to focus on the analysis/argument of a specific thing. In higher level courses, the writing/reading/analysis is more about the content than the process of learning to express oneself. If a kid is ready for that level already, it would be quite frustrating to sit through years of courses developing skills and learning how to write. The Exeter English electives look fabulous but the earlier courses seem far less interesting and much more about building skills.</p>
<p>I’ll check out Loomis. Thanks for the info.</p>
<p>My D had a similar experience with Exeter English that ClassicalMama reported her son experienced - she found it the most difficult course by far. Not only a lot of writing, but a lot of reading and a gradually improving ability to join literary discussion. Example - why did author choose this character or that style to convey a certain idea? How did the character evolve over the course of the story? If everyone has carefully read the book, there will be different perspectives on the answer (like a book club). And that kind of discussion skill is central to every English class, takes time to become good at, and is often considered one of the most valuable parts of a Harkness education. </p>
<p>Students who particularly enjoy writing often become active in the school paper, which is a huge weekly production with editorials, news pieces, humor, see Exonian.com</p>
<p>History, apart from the one year of required US history, offers the most flexibility of any subject at Exeter. The history faculty is among the strongest and most established Dept., and you would not run out of classes if you took two a term for all 4 years. My D particularly liked ancient greece and rome, and we hear that the european history 3 term course is great too. Non-western tradition courses are as numerous as western tradition courses. Pick your level and off you go (intro to advanced college level, it is all accessible). </p>
<p>The average acronym prep school student is probably quite comfortable with advanced reading comprehension, analogies and vocabulary. As you will see when taking the SSAT, it does require a fair amount of achievement and aptitude to achieve the average accepted scores (about the top 10%).</p>
<p>Again, Exeter does require a full year of history other than American–not sure how that differs from Andover though. My son has taken seven terms of history so far, including, as it happens, a full year of European history–A 10th grade, lower level series of courses, after which he took the ap test just to see what would happen and got a 5. I know that sounds braggy, but I just put it out there because of the seriously false assumptions being made here about the rigor and thoroughness of Exeter’s non-leveled humanities classes. </p>
<p>As far as English goes, I think Exeter has both a higher estimation of the general intelligence of its student body and a lower estimation of their collective previous training in writing and literary analysis than the OP. </p>
<p>The thing I think I admire most about Exeter is how much careful thought and deliberate planning has gone into each department’s curriculum. As a teacher, what I like is that every discipline has a clearly thought out method, from the word problems in math to the prep year emphasis on narrative writing in English. The method is so specific it certainly isn’t right for everyone, but when it fits, the results are pretty incredible.</p>
<p>I appreciate the comments and information about the curriculum. I’m not trying to make any assumptions about Exeter, but rather asking questions about how this would work for an outlier. </p>
<p>Let me try to phrase this a bit differently. As I understand it, a kid entering 9th grade at Exeter after BC calculus would be given a placement test to find an appropriate math level and “9th grade math” likely wouldn’t be ideal for that kid. So similarly, if a kid entered with AP English Lit exam with a 5 and APUSH with a 5, would that kid end up in 9th grade English and take the typical US history sequence? Or for classicalmama, would your child still benefit greatly from taking the European history sequence <em>after</em> the 5 on the AP exam? I’m not asking about a typical really smart kid, I’m wondering about an atypical kid. Is there any flexibility for those placements for a kid able to demonstrate mastery of the usual high school sequence in those areas?</p>
<p>Like most boarding schools, I’m sure Exeter has plenty of experience with atypical students and does not underserve them. You should call the school and speak to someone in the humanities department to get your questions answered to your satisfaction.</p>
<p>Think of them as something like the core curriculum in colleges like Columbia. You are required to take these courses regardless of your prior experience. The idea is that you will benefit from the teaching and class discussions even on the topics you are familiar with, and you will be graded on the improvement you have made. Whether it’s the most reasonable and fair setup is up for debate, but that’s the way it is. And I think it’s also a matter of practicality to schools. To allow as much flexibility in humanities as in math/science would take more resources as humanity classes are generally smaller.</p>
<p>kaibab, it’s not as atypical as you may think for a kid to enter 9th grade with humanities APs and/or actual college coursework. Trust me, the freshman level English classes at Exeter can be far more advanced than the typical AP Lit or AP Lang class at ABC Public school. Really, don’t worry about it, especially if you’re just talking about APUSH and AP Lit. The APUSH curriculum is so broad and shallow as to be nothing more than basic fact recall. It really lacks analysis - very different from the kind of research required for Exeter’s US History course. And AP Lit could be taken 5 times using different materials and still be fresh. Humanities are so very different from maths. </p>
<p>If you are a student who can write historical or literary analysis at a very high level coming in, you will be expected to continue to do so. Furthermore, you won’t be alone.</p>
<p>Just because there are no interesting electives (and I know what you mean about those fun sounding senior courses) doesn’t mean that you wouldn’t learn and grow in those first three years. Those courses are all about students mastering writing and critical reading to a much more thorough and demanding standard than I’ve seen in AP-level public school classes (I observe them regularly as part of my job). English at Exeter is a humbling experience for even the brightest kids–you learn that you have a lot to learn. </p>
<p>The European history sequence, after which my kid successfully took that AP test, is a 10th grade (200 level)sequence. History gets significantly more challenging as the classes move to the 300 and 400 level. A student who had already taken the AP test would probably just wait and take 300/400 level classes–though Exeter’s approach to history is so different than most that I think a 100 or 200 level class for a term would still be a good idea. My kid’s 333 (his upper year American history primary source research paper) was honestly more complex and better written than any essay I wrote in college. Completing this essay is considered by most Exonians as one of the most difficult things they do at the school. </p>
<p>My kid is humanities-oriented. I think he would probably tell you that, generally speaking, the kids who are smart but less oriented toward the humanities tend to get B’s in history and English and the advanced kids get A’s–or A minuses as the English department has a rep. for rarely giving A’s. Anyway, I don’t think he’s ever felt that the courses weren’t advanced enough. At times a particular class might not have gone as well as he’d have liked, but that’s just the nature of a discussion based, student-led classroom–sometimes the students around the table just don’t click.</p>
<p>Thanks for the info. We have dealt with many schools and been told that “this would be different” and “all students are challenged here” and it’s never been true for our child. It’s helpful to know that some boarding schools effectively challenge students in subjects other than math.</p>
<p>Here’s my perspective as an English teacher: there’s a point where classmates and teacher matter more than subject matter or advanced in the front of a class’s title. Where in math, a great student can delve in to a set of problems solo and get or not get the answer, much of learning in the humanities happens in the flow of discussion, when one person’s insight sparks another. At it’s best, I think this is what Harkness discussion does. (Harkness is part of humanities classes at many schools other than Exeter.)</p>
<p>What frustrated me as a parent of a junior high schooler who loved literature was the way other bright kids simply didn’t want to jump in to the discussion or engage intellectually. This is one of the great gifts of the right boarding school–a peer group that respects the life of the mind and admires rather than mocks the kids who are passionate about and gifted in a particular field of learning. Visiting humanities classes during revisits to the schools where your daughter is (hopefully!) eventually accepted will probably be the best way for her to assess what feels right. You might also suggest she bring up some of those books she loves in her interview, try to share what she loves, and see what happens. Does the interviewer engage and probe or smile, make a few notes and move on to the next question?</p>
<p>Milton is highly regarded for its English department and another school to look at closely if that is your focus. Rather than trimesters they want the same small classroom to stay together for a full year. This is an administration that believes living closely with long, complex texts is a vital intellectual experience.</p>
<p>9th graders all take the same course. In 10th grade there are 4 options. In junior year 5 options. Senior year 8 full-year options plus a half-course (meets 2X per week all year) on Hamlet. One of the Junior courses is a 2-year course where the same group continues together in Senior year as well.</p>
<p>Starting in 10th grade you can also take creative writing as a half-course, and they have 3 levels so you could do it all three years. </p>
<p>Other than creative writing, the courses are not “leveled” although clearly some have tougher material on the reading list and students will self-select.</p>
<p>Having the whole class mix together in 9th grade English is by design - it builds cohesion. I doubt they would want students to skip that - and it would probably be an important part of your child’s social development to be there.</p>