English Major/Pre-Law 3.7 UW, 35 ACT [TX resident, wants non-TX LACs]

Chance Me / Match Me!
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Totally understand. His preference is a LAC, but he’d be willing to certain larger schools based on location/strength of major.

I don’t have a number - we are still figuring it out based on college fund/investments/etc. Totally understand that ED would be full pay, which is why I put ‘maybe’. Most likely scenario is not applying ED anywhere and having him come to terms with the fact that we won’t get into his top choices. He understands there are a ton of excellent schools and he’ll make the most of his college experience.

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I’m surprised that GW would be a reach (I think non-ED admit rate is 50%), but I understand that the process is incredibly competitive. His counselor actually said Lehigh would be a safety, which made no sense to me. I did think it could be a match though. This is great feedback - thank you!

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In my opinion, no one here can accurately chance someone for the Johnson. This is because all the student’s details are not known to us. The Johnson is not primarily an academic scholarship.

This student has decent leadership already (and his application could be cast in ways to emphasize that).

I understand your daughter wasn’t awarded a Johnson – neither was my son (in fairness, he didn’t apply!). But I’ve known a few kids that were awarded the Johnson, which is the basis of my opinion.

Paging @DramaMama2021 if she cares to weigh in.

Given that no one has a crystal ball, I’d hate for someone to miss out just because of an internet stranger’s opinion.

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It would help to know your budget (maybe I missed it), but if he likes Colorado and you’re out here visiting, University of Denver is worth a look. I know they have decent Law School admissions (I don’t know as much about their English program). Their top merit would still put it around $50K for a full pay student. The campus is nice and outdoor stuff is a reasonable drive. My DD is just finishing her junior year there and while it wasn’t her top choice initially (she received a full ride scholarship that required she attend a CO school and this was the best option for her), she has had an amazing experience.

As far as LACs, when offered, the merit varies wildly. If he’s interested in the pacific northwest, you could have him look at Whitman (it was too rural for my LAC-seeking son who wanted more of an urban LAC, but nice small town, good merit and probably a match for your son). My son’s GPA was higher, but test scores were a little lower and he generally got top merit at most places that offered it, but even that was wildly different in terms of final cost of attendance across his options. He narrowed down his final three choices to Tufts (no merit, so COA of $80+), American ($20K Presidential, $56K COA) and Occidental ($20K Presidential, COA of $63K). He chose Oxy and I’m hopeful it will be a good fit for him

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Since he likes Colorado, you might look at U of Denver, where I think he’d have merit potential and also would be a candidate for their Pioneer Leadership cohort honors program. DU is very strong in International Relations, and also emphasizes creative writing in their English department. In addition to general merit, the debate team gives scholarships. DU isn’t LAC-small but it has under 6000 undergrads, and if he got into the Pioneer Leadership Program, that would give him a smaller cohort.

Another LAC with phenomenal outdoor opportunities, merit potential, and very strong English/creative writing is Sewanee. It’s on a gorgeous plateau between Chattanooga and Nashville.

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Also, add Lewis and Clark to the “worth checking out” list.

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Thank you!!

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Allegheny gives fantastic merit. For my D22, her cost of attendance would have been $22,000 a year with merit alone.

I’ll second Lewis and Clark and also throw in Whitman and Reed. They all have good English departments and good access to outdoor activities.

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Great feedback of DU! We hadn’t looked into it enough to about strength in International Relations or Pioneer Leadership Program. Thank you!

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Thank you! Yes, DU should get added. I think he likes the idea of Boulder better than Denver, but DU is a much better fit academically and socially.
His counselor is a Whitman alum and recommended it to my son. We just thought with only 320 or so kids per class it might be a bit small and I hate the idea of the planes/trains/automobiles that would be required to get there from Texas.

Congrats to your son on having such great options and I hope he has a wonderful experience at Occidental!

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I’ll second (or third) Lewis and Clark. They recruit and offer scholarships for speech and debate that may be of interest to the OP.
https://college.lclark.edu/departments/rhetoric_and_media/department/opportunities/speech-and-debate/scholarship/

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As soon as I read the initial post, I thought of Sewanee (U. of the South) which has been mentioned a couple of times now. Strong writing program, great outdoors opportunities, and offers good merit aid, too.

One option that would be an extremely likely admit and much more affordable at sticker price than most schools on your list is UNC-Asheville which is the NC public liberal arts college and is an amazing location for outdoors enthusiasts.

Dittoing the recommendations of Furman and Wofford.

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I agree U Denver should be on the list - not sure if merit has changed, but my D20’s merit offer brought cost well below 40K.

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With respect to Sewanee and the study of English literature, Sewanee is uncommon for offering a minor in Shakespeare Studies, an attribute mentioned in this article:

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Total cost for this next year at DU is listed as 80,614 and the top merit (Chancellor’s + residence hall grant) is $33K, so for a full pay folks, COA is around $48K. My daughter is on a full ride scholarship call Boettcher (through a private foundation), so I can’t remember exactly where we would have ended up with Chancellor’s, but it was definitely cheaper than now

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GW is a strange place. DD was accepted to Richmond, Lafayette, Rochester and bunch of other top school. I have no clue why she was waitlisted at GW (she would not attend, but she had excellent essays specifically for GW. She initially was interested.) She declined their waitlist. They sent her 20 different emails double checking if she is sure she wants to decline the waitlist (that was soo strange…) She was absolutely sure even before that; by April she did not want to attend GW :). She did not like the environment there and the lack of campus. I wish we would know ahead of time and not waste time and money applying…

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Not that my daughter did not get Johnson. She was only waitlisted for Washington and Lee, not the scholarship!
Washington and Lee was extremely competitive last year. They took 0 students from waitlist.
DD had higher stats and very strong leadership EC. (Her EC got her everywhere, not her top grades or challenging classes.)

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So the biggest issue with your reaches is money - even if you got in, you’re not getting any…or likely not a lot.

GW may or may not be a match. I lot will depend on how much interest you show. But given you are not a popular major, it may help.

If he loves DC, then how about American…it’s not in the heart but it’s there…or even UMD. American, like GW, you’d need to demonstrate interest and UMD is not a match but a reach - albeit not a high reach.

In regards to LACs and outdoors, I already mentioned Sewanee - which would get you everything you listed - outdoorsy, merit, etc. Merit for you is important - because if he’s truly going to law school - and you can’t know that - know that where he goes matters far less than what he does (GPA, LSAT) in regards to law school. I say this because this year Harvard Law is represented by 174 undergraduate schools - including Cal State Northridge and LA, Bloomsburg of PA, Fairleigh Dickinson, U of you name it - Arkansas, Kentucky, WVU, St. Johns, Stetson, etc. Yes, you’ll see more students from top schools - but likely for the same reason they went to top schools to begin with - they were the top students then and are now - and that bodes well for you based on test score. Top students are top students but many do choose undergrads for different reasons - location (to home), cost, other thing - but I would not say that means, by itself, going to a top school gives you a better chance per se.

So - if you have a budget, don’t justify a higher cost such as - my budget is X but I’ll apply to Davidson which costs X + Y.

LACs that might be outdoorsy in addition to Sewanee - and I suppose it depends what you mean by outdoors - hiking, skiing, biking, etc. but you might also look at and these are safeties - but safety/match doesn’t matter - fit matters - Bard, Willamette, Lewis & Clark, and Eckerd (for beach).

For an off the wall suggestion and not sure about merit, check out St. Johns College in Santa Fe.

For some reasonably priced smaller schools - I think UNC Asheville was previously mentioned. How about Western Carolina - tuition $5K + fees - so I think $8K and very outdoorsy. Adams State in Colorado would be another. For mid size, UT Chattanooga could work and for likely cheaper than Colorado but a big school, U of Tenn in Knoxville could be a sub…not in regards to skiing but equally close to great hiking, etc. Then again, Utah would be Colorado - and much cheaper as would U of New Mexico. Colorado is over $60K and most get a small scholarship - $6250. For really outdoors, how about Montana State in Bozeman or U of Montana in Missoula…and all will be cost competitive relative to names you mentioned. These type schools are also smaller in population so not small - but not 20K+ kids either…more mid size - so U Montana 11K students for example.

That your son is a good test taker bodes well for law school - because he’ll do well at the LSAT which far outweighs, at least based on what I’ve seen, his undergrad school.

Best of luck.

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While it is kind of you to share your daughters experience it is not a great idea to use it to extrapolate results for other people’s children during future admissions cycles in such definitive and authoritative terms.

The plural of anecdote isn’t data, and you are basing your conclusions on a singular anecdote .

You only have partial visibility of one candidate (your kid for whom you have an emotional bias) in isolation. You didn’t sit in on her interview, have access to other kids essays, see the geographic distribution of applications, etc. This is a holistic process and while your daughter sounds great her failure to gain an acceptance is informative but not indicative for others, and certainly not as conclusive as you seem to suggest when you declare “he will not get in”.

In terms of law school the reality that you can get into a top law school from any school is often repeated without context. The reality is that elite undergraduate schools are heavily over represented at top law schools. The root causes for this disproportionate over representation can be debated but the reality can’t be. By example Harvard Law matriculated 822 students from 174 undergraduate schools. Highly rated schools had multiple students in attendance (double digits from some t-20) while many if not most of the lesser rated schools have a single representative. Simply put the most well travelled path to an elite law school is via an elite undergraduate school.

Supporting data below…

https://www.■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■/dataverse/top-feeders-law-school#:~:text=Aspiring%20lawyers%20know%20that%20excellent,the%20law%20school%20admissions%20process.

OP please don’t be discouraged and recognize your kids experiences and results will be based on their unique qualities and circumstances. Good luck.

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Thank you!