<p>Was checking out the U of Vermont and found it interesting that some applicants with great stats and EC's got offered little or no merit. One applicant was of the opinion that the admissions board had concluded he was unlikely to attend and thus made only a nominal offer where merit aid was concerned. Do colleges consider the likelyhood of an applicant attending before putting together a package for said applicant? I thought it was simply raw data that was considered. I had no idea a college might conclude ie., "We're his/her saftey. Save the merit for someone who better fits our enrollment criteria." I learned on a previous thread that colleges can contract with companies who specialize in determining the probability of an applicant attending, as well as what should be offered in the form of grants, loans, aid etc., that will, most likely, seal the deal. Is this really going on? Is it common amongst most institutions?</p>
<p>go find last fall's Atlantic Monthly college issue. They had an excellent article describing "merit" aid. The key thing to remember is that "merit scholarships" are often not based primarily on merit, but rather are a way to increase tuition revenue. The reasoning is like this: Rather than award a needy kid (or a genius) a full ride at, say, 30,000 per year, if the college offered three 10,000 "merit" scholarships to good kids who otherwise would probably not attend for financial reasons, then the college comes out ahead. </p>
<p>Colleges have developed, often with the help of consultants, statistical models of attendance, so they can actually tease this stuff out. We often make it even easier by filing for financial aid, which lays out the whole package for them.</p>
<p>So, what does it mean in practice?</p>
<ul>
<li><p>if a kid is unlikely to attend under any circumstances, based on their model, no merit aid.</p></li>
<li><p>if a kid would attend regardless, no merit money. Who might be in this category? A relatively well off family. A kid who shows clear signs that the school is their top choice etc.</p></li>
<li><p>if a kid is so-so in the pool, no merit money. The college doesn't want them that badly.</p></li>
<li><p>if a kid is better than average in the pool, and may have a tough time paying with normal aid calculations, that kid becomes a merit candidate.</p></li>
</ul>
<p>There are, of course, a lot of exceptions to this. Some schools will clearly buy talent, by automatically awarding big aid to merit finalists, for example. But outside merit finalists, I have not seen a lot of overt financial inducements. I suspect it also occurs with kids with outstand SAT stats for that school, but am only speculating. Reason is that colleges publish, and promote, both SAT stats and numbers of merit finalists. They don't seem to publish or promote average GPA, number of APs etc., so I suspect these things don't matter as much. But who knows?</p>
<p>nightingale, I think that you are right about some schools saving the merit $s for the student more likely to attend, however, it is also given to those with high stats. You just do not know what will happen. UVM seems to typically give 2-3,000 in merit money, but seems to meet 97% of financial need for freshmen and 90% of financial need for underclassmen (according to stats in USNEWS). The aid seems to be based more on financial need than merit. I did not know this when my S was applying. When I saw the sticker price for oos, and I saw what I consider to be poor merit aid, I did think that it would be worthwhile for our S to apply, and he never asked about UVM. I assumed that financial aid went to the instate student, and now I really don't know if that is so at UVM.</p>
<p>My son did not get merit aid at one of his safety schools, which would have made it impossible for him to attend. BTW, this school was the only one that wanted him to take out a Perkins loan in addition to the Stafford (but zero in grant $ based on financial need). He was offered merit $s at other schools ranked higher and at other safety schools.</p>
<p>"if a kid would attend regardless, no merit money. Who might be in this category? ...A kid who shows clear signs that the school is their top choice etc."</p>
<p>Wow! So if your D or S is interested in a school and visits numerous times they could be shooting themselves in the foot for merit money. I've also been told "demonstrated interest" may inhance your chances at aid... Now I'm learning too much interest might hurt the applicant. What a crapshoot.</p>
<p>newmassdad is right about parcelling out merit money. Colleges do the same for athletes. At a recent college fair a Div1 Asst. AD told us he'll take one full athletic scholorship and split it three ways if in his veiw that is enough incentive to get three players he wants.. if it isn't, then on to plan B. </p>
<p>"- if a kid is unlikely to attend under any circumstances, based on their model, no merit aid."</p>
<p>"Thier model" Who comes up with these models which determine whether or not a kid would attend?
Does not visiting BEFORE you apply mean you will not attend?
Does your religion have a bearing? For example a Jewish kid applying to Holy Cross or a Catholic kid to Brandeis. Can it be construed that these kids are "not likely to attend" based on the average choice by the average kid over a defined time frame, based on a static comfort level?
Wouldn't these models fly in the face of a diverse student body?Perhaps there is a diversity model that overides the standard model?<br>
I'm getting a headache.....</p>
<p>I guess that you don't want to show that you are "in love" with a school. Some students do feel that there is only one possible school that they could be happy attending. Their parents may be happy to fulfill the dream and pay the full sticker price (out of pocket, with loans, or a combination).</p>
<p>Yes, I do believe that overall, this is how merit is distributed. At some schools the student may get more and at another less. The range can still easily be between 5,000 and 15,000 for many students though. I am sure some students have an even wider differential in the merit aid offers.</p>
<p>It is not just religious diversity, but things like geographic diversity, and a host of other factors that may come into play. A school may distribute their funds in the form of merit aid the way they choose. Perhaps a student has an unusual talent, or something unique that might add to the richness of the student body, and they may be happy to see a larger aid offer on the table.</p>
<p>nightingale,</p>
<p>After watching and participating in this process for four years, the only two things I can tell you are:</p>
<ul>
<li><p>it is impossible for us amateur parents to predict what will happen at any specific school with any specific kid. Heck, it is tough enough to make any generalities for anyone anywhere.</p></li>
<li><p>do not believe what the admissions offices say. Their roles are two-fold: 1. Marketing the school and 2. Forming a first year class. They are NOT in the business of honestly communicating what they do, or what goes on at the school. They no more would do this than a food company would tell you the "full story" on one of their products, like the can of V8 juice that has so much sodium it can be harmful to some folks (go read the label!).</p></li>
</ul>
<p>newmassdad,</p>
<p>What would be the harm in these college admissions offices simply telling the truth? Correct me if I'm wrong but most these places have far more applicants than they do freshman slots, and that trend is rising. I'm beginning to think that each of these venerable institutions has one panic stricken guy behind a curtain pulling levers randomly which in turn determine:</p>
<p>A. Your value as an applicant.
B. If you get in
C. The resultant FA, MA, package you're offered. </p>
<p>But please massdad ...as we share the same geographical area, tell me the 3 biggest lies you've been told or the misconceptions us relative rookies may fall victim to. Save me and my DD the trouble of learning the hard way. Surely some places must place a high value on candor within the process.</p>
<p>nightingale,</p>
<p>What would be the harm of telling the truth? Obviously, a decrease in applicants. This could have two effects: 1. a decrease in apparent selectivity. 2. an actual decrease in student body quality, if they don't get otherwise stellar applicants. </p>
<p>Note, btw, which colleges embrace the Common Application. Many of the top schools, do. And they gain from it - more applicants, so greater selectivity. </p>
<p>No, the process is not random. The admissions and fin aid committees most certainly DO know what they're doing, and how to manipulate our behaviours, and we are not told the back story. But why should we? What grocery store will TELL us that impulse items are in the check out lanes? What department store will tell us why they're laid out the way they are (which is the result of a lot of behiavoural science)?</p>
<p>So, what to watch out for? There are so many things. But I suggest a few things:</p>
<ul>
<li><p>Use a financial aid calculator, both govt and institutional methodology, to get an idea of what your true cost will be at a meets all need institution. Be aware of gapping, and have a backup finance plan in place. Remember, it is their definition of "need" not ours.</p></li>
<li><p>Don't view the process as a game. These boards are full of advice regarding how to game the system. Indeed, we've just discussed the risk of showing too much enthusiasm. So, let your kid contact profs if they want to, not to gain admissions points (or sit in classes or whatever...). Your kid should ultimately be his/her self.</p></li>
<li><p>the goal is a good education for your kid, not bragging rights for the parents. There are a lot of good places any of our kids could go that don't have national brand names. </p></li>
</ul>
<p>Finally, what "mistruths" have I heard? Just a few: legacy status is only a small tip; they value socioeconomic diversity; that athletes are treated the same as regular apps.</p>
<p>Remember too, that most of the challenges are at the elite level. Move down a notch or two, and the process becomes amazingly transparent.</p>
<p>I don't think Merit Aid is necessarily tied to the likelihood of the student attending. In some cases, Merit Aid is used to lure a strong candidate to attend a school she might not have considered otherwise. For instance, those shopping for Merit Aid are often advised to look at colleges one "tier" down from their qualifications because then they will stand out in the crowd of applicants and these schools will want to attract such a strong stand out student. </p>
<p>You mentioned UVM and tying Merit Aid to the likelihood of enrolling. Well, that doesn't quite fit our experience. My D had NO intentions of applying to UVM. However, we live in Vermont and UVM awards a FULL TUITION four year scholarship to all vals in the state and my daughter was val so she received this award (The Green and Gold Scholarship). As the app fee was waived for winners, she filed it but had not considered it as a school on her list really because she developed safeties on her list that she'd prefer to attend. Also, UVM is a state U and likely has less merit aid to offer than some privates. My D put a LOT into expressing interest and visits, etc. into all her schools BUT UVM. She did not visit or contact anyone there. </p>
<p>As far as applying to schools, fill out FAFSA and you never know. If looking for Merit Aid, apply to schools slightly lower than your qualifications where you might excel over other candidates and be sought after and awarded a scholarship.</p>
<p>I'll add another example...my D's safety school was Lehigh. She was awarded quite a substantial Merit Scholarship there. That likely is because she'd be on the high end of their applicants. Being her safety, she was less likely to attend. However, she expressed interest in all her schools, safety or not, as I would advise applicants to do.</p>
<p>My daughter (out of state applicant) applied to UVM this past year. Their website on scholarships is pretty informative. She received $7000 merit aid. My take is that UVM trys to retain it's top instated canddates by offering them more merit aid. In addition the state targets certain majors(nursing) with scholarships based on working in the state after graduation. Some state schools seam to put more dollars into OOS candidates.</p>
<p>I have also seen in D's case, a safety school gave her full 4-yr. merit scholarship, as she was way over top on SAT's, grades, etc., for the school, and I was surprised after hearing what was said here. Her chances of not getting merit aid should have been almost absolute. But then I thought about it, and she had shown interest - ie, visiting DC from TX, and getting info, etc. So I think that there is a greater possibility that someone with superior stats at their safety can get merit aid offered if they show a lot of interest. That makes the schools think that they are seriously thinking about attending. D was serious, but in the end, chose a different school with a FA offer.</p>
<p>It looks like UVM gives generous need based aid for instate and out of state students. They offered 63% of instate students grants - averaged 9826, and 45% of out of state students grants averaged 14,389. Non-need gift aid was offered to 22% of instate students and the average grant was 3,968, and 21% of out of state students were offered average non-need award of 4,721.</p>
<p>Those of you confused about UVM merit aid should understand that it is restricted based on your residency status. There is much more available to in state students, but the maximum scholarship award to an out of state student is $8000 ($2000 per year). Other grants are available, but these are more subjective awards.</p>
<p>As I understand, UVM does play a little bit of the "ability to pay" game but is at this point more concerned with drawing in top quality students to build up the school. If they think a talented student is sure to come to the school, they may drop a little aid, in order to use it to entice another student who is perhaps choosing from more schools or is less sure.</p>
<p>I got better offers from other schools and still chose UVM- it comes down to making the fit work if at all possible. They did cut my aid substantially sophomore year, but that's pretty standard. UVM wanted me to attend pretty badly, so I got four more grants on top of the presidential scholarship- but I also had a $60,000 scholarship offer from another school that the FA office was aware of.</p>
<p>
[quote]
What would be the harm in these college admissions offices simply telling the truth?
[/quote]
One applicants odds of getting a merit scholarship are largely dependent on who the other candidates for the scholarship happen to be ... so even if a school posted their approach it still wouldn't help a particular family predict if they will get a merit scholarship or not very well at all so it seems a no win for the school. </p>
<p>There is a way addmissions and merit scholarships could get much more predicable ... base everything off one national test ... lots of countries do similar things. Personally I prefer our approach of building classes ... it certainly creates more ambiguity but also allows schools to have very unique cultures and feels. (PS - If kids stress out about the SATs now just imagine what would happen if we went to a totally predicatable numbers driven process for admissions and merit scholarships)</p>
<br>
<blockquote> <p>What would be the harm in these college admissions offices simply telling the truth?<<</p> </blockquote>
<br>
<p>The admissions game is a two-way street. And neither side shows all their cards. Both are trying to maximize their options and optimize their outcome.</p>
<p>What would be the harm in the students simply telling the truth? Write in the essay: "Your school is my rock-bottom safety, and I'll attend only if by some freak disaster it's the only place that acceptes me" Yeah, right....</p>
<p>Coureur, so true, so true. Funny example! :D</p>