<p>While I am sure we can all name a few high profile individuals who dropped out of college and became REALLY wealthy on a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity, they are probablly the exceptions, not the rule. For everyone else, having a college degree still seems like an excellent backup plan</p>
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<p>It could be either someone right out of high school or someone currently in college, as long as the person is 19 years old of younger by December 31 of the year.</p>
<p>But the whole “drop out of college” thing is overhyped in the media coverage of the Thiel Fellowships. A Thiel Fellow who is leaving college typically is not making an irrevocable decision; if the venture fails, s/he is likely to easily go back to college under most colleges’ more lenient readmission policies for former students.</p>
<p>A Thiel Fellow right out of high school could be seen as taking two “gap years” that are likely much more productive than typical “gap year” activities that students who get shut out of college admissions try to come up with. In this case, if the venture is not doing too well, the person can apply to colleges in the last year, at least as a backup option.</p>
<p>It is strange that, on these forums, “gap years” are generally looked upon favorably, but “gap years” to work on a business venture are not, even though such activities are likely among the most useful types of activities one can do in a “gap year”, whether or not the venture is successful.</p>
<p>The people he is trying to fund are no slouches and are probably borderline geniuses. There was a girl couple of years ago who went to MIT (was admitted to HYP) who was part of Columbia scholars program, did RSI at MIT and so on. She turned it down saying she needed more education to make use of the opportunity.</p>
<p>I agree, successful entrepreneurs need more than a strong desire to succeed. They need real education.</p>
<p>Having worked in start ups, I have found they all are structurally carbon copies of each other when they start to hit a growth curve. They get more business then they can handle and they are unable to successfully make that leap to the next level so they fail. Think about how many start ups really do make it.</p>
<p>This is the old hands on approach is better than learning theory approach argument. Learning theory will get you farther and can be more broadly applied. But, hands on is more fun and exciting.</p>
<p>I do believe students need real experience before going back to school to get an MBA or other advanced degree or they don’t have the experience to apply to what they are learning.</p>
<p>I’m a Thiel Fellowship 2nd round applicant and I’m active in the Under20 community his Fellowship is fostering. This was an interesting read, thank you for sharing.</p>
<p>The debate, imo, isn’t go to school vs start a business. The debate is pay for an education at a university vs hustle an education from mentors, experience, and the internet. Art history, lit, world religions, etc are all topics that can be explored outside of university. You can get a full liberal arts education for free online, at museums, even just in a library!</p>
<p>Do startups started by people with degrees fail?</p>
<p>RITvsUW - Welcome. </p>
<p>We would actually like to hear from you about how this whole process works. What does a second round applicant mean and how many rounds exist?</p>
<p>Yes they do, particularly if they are started by people who do not take any classes in accounting, finance and economics.</p>
<p>Think about it. How many cups of coffee or how many tacos sold an hour does it take to pay your rent, your overhead, your insurance, etc. Many businesses are started by people who have never sat with paper and pencil and worked some numbers.</p>
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<p>But if the person manages to get both types of learning, wouldn’t that be better? Indeed, some schools (e.g. Northeastern and Drexel) base their curricula on interleaving hands-on (co-op jobs) with theory (classes in school).</p>
<p>Seems that many of the arguments are based on the false choice of school (exclusive-)or work/startup/whatever. But why would doing one prevent someone from doing the other later? (And a year or two working at some interesting job may be a fine “gap year” or two.)</p>
<p>I agree getting both types of learning in school is the best. Schools like Drexel and RIT do provide both. And if a student is not at one of those schools, then trying to find summer internships will help prepare them. </p>
<p>It is the idea of leaving school entirely to go to hands on only that I think is false. Like it is a waste to spend time sitting in a classroom.</p>
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<p>Well, many people that go to college have the same problem that people that drop out or don’t go at all have.</p>
<p>I know lots of small business people that don’t have college degrees. They have from 5 to 20 employees and have been at it for a very long time and they really don’t have much interest in expansion. These guys are comfortable with their businesses, what they make, they know their customers and may temporarily expand for more business or just turn business away. Could they expand and grow their businesses with more expertise? Probably. But it looks like they are content to live within themselves.</p>
<p>I was recruited after a year of college to write financial systems. I got to work with the head of the accounting department on accounts receivable, accounts payable, general ledger, order entry, labor, routing, inventory, payroll - all of the systems used to run the company. Is that worth a year of college? I eventually did study all of that too. Then I moved into engineering and I didn’t have the theory but I did have the business knowledge. There were a lot of CS grads that didn’t have a clue about systems, business and customers - that was what people like me were for. So I went and got an MSCS and then I knew the theory. Going to school can be done at any time. You just need a source of money to pay for school and the time. In many cases, real world working experience can make the college course seem pretty easy.</p>
<p>Think about it. How many cups of coffee or how many tacos sold an hour does it take to pay your rent, your overhead, your insurance, etc. Many businesses are started by people who have never sat with paper and pencil and worked some numbers.</p>
<p>While it is fine to start a successful business without going to college, the reality is that for every success story, there are a thousand business failures that then leave the entrepreneur with nothing. Sure the experience is great, but most high paying careers out there require both degrees and other assorted credentials. MDs, JDs, CPAs, bankers (of any type), most influential government jobs (including the military), all teachers, and virtually all corporate positions REQUIRE at least a college education if not an advanced degree.</p>
<p>The other thing that the college experience does allow the student to learn HOW to learn. Sure you can “learn” on a job or in a start-up, but the intensive learning process will not be as great as in a college environment (as someone who has experienced the entreprenurial as well as corporate worlds). Each class a student takes provides that person with another distinct learning experience with a “boss” (i.e. professor) that will want things done his way. College a great way to learn how the world works at the interpersonal level.</p>
<p>In theory 
you can go to school at any time just like you can learn an instrument at any time but in reality as people age, have families, have mortgages to pay, then tend not to. </p>
<p>Those small businesses may do fine, until Walmart or Home Depot come to town. Survivors must learn strategies to keep their client base or they are eaten up. Those strategies are taught by studying the successes and failures of other companies in class discussions and homework assignments. </p>
<p>There are things no school can teach. You either are creative or not. You either have an entrepreneurial spirit or not. You either have a natural aptitude for math or not. Those innate qualities determine some of your success and of course luck and timing.</p>
<p>College can grow what you are strong in and gives you practice on how to to get around what you are not without the risk of setting up a business and losing your life savings.</p>
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<p>And you can just go back to college, with more life experience and an advantage over your college peers.</p>
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<p>As we all know, an undergraduate degree is no guarantor of success nor is it a guarantor of a job. The same can be said for the MS and Phd.</p>
<p>I know many people with their own businesses that are well off. Not really wealthy but very comfortable with what they have. They didn’t spend $200K or $300K for their degrees and live with a ton of debt for many years. They live simply and know what their capabilities are and seek out help when they need it.</p>
<p>I have seen categories of jobs that pay well get decimated by technology or outsourcing. If you’re in a high-paying job, you always have to be looking for the next project, job, etc. and ensuring that your company is doing reasonably well or your high-paying, secure job could be on the block too.</p>
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<p>It does help to have a lot of drive if you want to run a business. It certainly isn’t for the 9-5 crowd.</p>
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<p>WalMart and Home Depot have been around this area for quite some time. I wouldn’t be surprised if my friends’ businesses are listed with Home Depot as contractors that they refer work out to.</p>
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<p>You don’t have to start a company by yourself. Someone that knows their own strengths and weaknesses can get together with others with complementary skills.</p>
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<p>Yeah, you just get to lose your life savings paying for college.</p>
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<p>And pay for college how? After or before your mortgage, or car payment with 3 kids who need braces?</p>
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<p>Of course they didn’t, they went to school and started their businesses during a different time. Living simply and knowing their capabilities doesn’t sound like adjectives to describe much of the youth of today. </p>
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<p>I honesty don’t know how a young person today could assess and know that someone else has these skills before handing over their money. Were back to having luck and timing.</p>
<p>My son has a friend, an amazing musician who started at Berklee school of music in Boston. Then the kid realized by playing around that he was really good at buying stock. He quit music and now is going back to school to get a business degree.</p>
<p>I like this kid, I would never give him my money. Not until he had finished his education and demonstrated that he had the skill to really make money with his financial selections. But his friends, they probably would hand over some cash now because he sounds like he really knows what he is doing.</p>
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<p>Do you have a mortgage, car payment and 3 kids who need braces while you are in college? Why would you have these if you are running a business while you are college age?</p>
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<p>I think that there are a lot of young people out there today that do know how to live simply. In many cases because they have no choice. But these kids don’t make the headlines. I run into parents on my homeschooling lists that get their kids into apprenticeship positions in their teen years so that they have useful skills when they become adults. These skills may not make them a fortune but they don’t necessarily need to go the college route to earn a living.</p>
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<p>As the Thiel guy said - mentoring. I gave our son $25K when he was 13 so that he could learn to trade. I also spent many hours going over the structure of business, organizational behavior, accounting and finance in middle-school, high-school and college. He was a CS major so he has the math and science side but didn’t have the business side down. It’s nice to have both. You don’t have to get a degree in something to learn it. Yes, it’s nice if you can get mom or dad to teach you this stuff or if you can learn it on the job or if you have a mentor where you work or a mentor in general or you’re good at learning from textbooks or course videos. The modern world is a good place if you’re a self-learner.</p>
<p>If you skip the 18-22 year zone to open a business then you are in your twenties if the business fails so yes at 25 your kids don’t need braces, but you do have a mortgage and car payment and you and your spouse (who may not be working) have expenses. </p>
<p>What I mostly hear is how hard it is for teens to get work these days since the job market is so poor, that older adults are getting them. The idea of free apprenticeship sounds great. I don’t often hear of it being done. </p>
<p>Mentors are needed no matter whether you go to college or not, not in place of college. </p>
<p>It sounds like you really created a great experience for your son. We would like to hope all parents think that is important. But not all parents have the knowledge or the skill or the time. </p>
<p>I grew up with a parent that was ill. My mom had plenty to manage without seeking mentors for me. Luckily, I am pretty savy and analytical so i found my path. But it was totally because I went to college.</p>
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<p>True, for every Gates/Dell/Zuckerberg, there are probably thousands of college students who withdrew from college to try their ideas without success.</p>
<p>But they probably just returned to their colleges to complete their degrees after their ventures failed.</p>
<p>Really, given the enthusiasm for gap years and co-op jobs on this forum, why is there such opposition to what can be essentially thought of as a worthwhile gap year activity or extended co-op job? (Of course, the person doing the venture does need to be careful about running up too much personal debt if s/he cannot get outside funding if needed.)</p>
<p>Of course, this isn’t for everyone. Not everyone has the mentality for it, or what may potentially be the right idea at the right time (indeed, probably most don’t). But if someone does, would it be that bad a thing to give it a try, even though it may require a gap year or two with respect to college?</p>
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<p>If you’re running your own business as a startup (outside of the trades), then you’re probably working 70-90 hours a week anyways. Who has time for a girlfriend or a boyfriend or even dating?</p>
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<p>It’s a big country.</p>
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<p>I’d say that most people don’t have mentors. It’s nice when you do.</p>
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<p>Bill Gates could do what he did because his family had the position and wealth for a fallback. Some people have those advantages. Some don’t. Some can be entrepreneurs while others are probably better off as employees. I’m far from saying that it’s for everyone.</p>
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<p>Me too.</p>
<p>But it was totally because I dropped out of college.</p>