Environmental Engineering vs. Renewable Energy

College Majors Engineering Majors
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<p>Hi everyone! I've been away/busy for a few weeks on college tours and the like and haven't been getting all the e-mails responses, but I just wanted to give an update on where I am, and hope that I can transfer some of what I've learned to anyone else interested. I'm very happy with how this thread has developed and I hope others can benefit from it as much as I have.</p>

<p>First, about my major: I really appreciate everyone's input, especially the people that are recommending certain branches of engineering or certain programs. I'm not committed 100%, but I'm pretty sure that I won't go into something like electrical or mechanical engineering. Although these are strongly related to renewables, there's nothing that interests me about them (aside from applications to renewables) and I don't want to be stuck doing something else if renewables don't work out, if I lose interest, etc. On the other hand, there are plenty of other aspects (aside from renewables) in environmental engineering that are interesting to me. On the topic of environmental science/studies, I'm still convinced that these are too broad. Although some of the subject matter might be more academically interesting, I'm pretty sure I'd have to specialize sooner or later or dual-major in something else. More on this below, but I've extensively looked over the atmosphere/energy program at Stanford and it's exactly what I'm looking for. I'm not sure if I'll be able to get in there, but the fact that the atmosphere/energy program is under the environmental engineering department is VERY encouraging to me. I also feel that with environmental engineering I have a solid foundation to fall back on if things don't go as planned.</p>

<p>Second, on schools I've been looking at: right now Stanford looks the best. This is really all due to what seems to be an awesome program, which is exactly what I'm looking for. Stanford seems to be in a league of it's own in the area of what I want to do, but if I can't get in there I've also been looking at some other very good engineering schools: UC Berkeley, Carnegie-Mellon, Penn State and U. Michigan. These don't have any amazing renewable-related programs, but are pretty well-known for engineering studies.</p>

<p>Third, on my other miscellaneous thoughts: although I think it's important to choose your school/major carefully, I think satisfaction and success in your job ultimately come from what you make of it. A relative of mine is a perfect example: he has a degree in geography but has been doing environmental-related work for many years now. Although geography is somewhat related, what employers are ultimately looking for is knowledge in the field, the ability to do the work well, and a history of similar work.</p>

<p>I hope I haven't repeated too much of what I've said before, and I'll keep watching this thread for new ideas.</p>

<p>Nils</p>

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<p>Wow I just read this thread and nstannik's position is exactly where I am at. Does anyone know if UCB, UCLA, or UCSD has something similar to the Atmosphere/Energy program at Stanford?</p>

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<p>JteH,</p>

<p>I haven't seen as many specifics about Berkeley's programs (or any of the other schools) but I have heard that a lot of cutting-edge renewable stuff is going on at Berkeley, especially in these two departments:</p>

<p><a href="http://rael.berkeley.edu/%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://rael.berkeley.edu/&lt;/a>
Welcome</a> to ERG</p>

<p>Again, I haven't seen as much here as I have for Stanford, but still pretty impressive. Berkeley's my #2 choice right now (and a little more realistic than Stanford) so I'm really keeping my fingers crossed for March 26th (decision day)!</p>

<p>Nils</p>

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<p>No way!! Stanford and Berkeley are my #1 and #2 choice too!! It's great to see someone in the same situation as I am. Good luck in your admissions :)</p>

<p>What major did you apply to?</p>

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<p>Awesome! It's reassuring that we came to the same conclusions, I guess we're doing something right! :)</p>

<p>I ended up applying as an environmental engineering major. Even if I don't get into Stanford I take it as a really good sign that their Atmosphere/Energy program is so strongly tied to environmental engineering; it kind of shows me I'm on the right track for my field of interest. The new renewable energy majors are just too new to be certain (especially in this economy) plus most of them aren't engineering-accredited.</p>

<p>I'll post here again once I know my final decision. Even with my good grades I'm definitely not counting on Stanford; our school valedictorian didn't even get in there. I'm keeping my fingers crossed for Berkeley (Carnegie Mellon too); I'm hoping I have at least some chance there. We'll find out in a few weeks!</p>

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<p>As an employer I tend to not look seriously at environmental engineers. I need people who can get a job done - I don't need someone flying a political flag. </p>

<p>At middle- or low-level states colleges, Environmental science or Environmental eng are less then rigorous, for drop outs and older students. Think twice about being painted with that same brush. I'm sure that what ever you take at Stanford will train you well - but lower tier colleges are a totally different story.</p>

<p>Enviro-this and -that is the PC cause of the moment. Your college degree needs to support you for decades. Don't get yourself labeled for life with a degree that may be out of favor in 10 years.</p>

<p>Don't even think about signing up for a major that is not ABET certified. That a school has an ABET certified Mech or Chem degree, does not mean that ABET has or will certify this newest fly at enviro-something engineering.</p>

<p>Be smart - think long term.</p>

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<p>toadstool,</p>

<p>Thanks for your input. It's especially good to hear from someone who has real experience in the engineering field, not just in the academic world. If you don't mind me asking, what line of work are you in specifically? I can imagine some employers would definitely prefer civil engineers over environmental while for others it really wouldn't matter.</p>

<p>Just to clarify - I've applied as an environmental engineering major at all of my potential schools. All of these programs are ABET accredited, and are usually strongly tied to civil engineering. When I mentioned the lack of ABET accreditation in my previous posts I was talking about renewable energy programs that many lower-level schools offer. Through my research (and I think many on this forum agreed) I decided these programs just weren't a safe bet and decided to steer clear.</p>

<p>I can't talk too much about specific EE programs because I've never actually experienced one myself. From what I've heard from the few engineers I have talked to, though, environmental engineering is really close to civil engineering. Many of the courses are the same, and to become a PE (professional engineer) you even take the same test, so I definitely wouldn't look at EE as "engineering-lite". Env. science and EE are two completely different majors, and are definitely not comparable.</p>

<p>I definitely plan to talking to professors and fellow students wherever I end up going to school about how EE is viewed in the workplace. Most schools don't require a definite commitment to a major for at least a year, so switching to civil engineering really wouldn't be a problem. Civil and environmental are almost always under the same department so it shouldn't be too tricky if need be.</p>

<p>I don't think there's any doubt that "enviro" is in right now, but (depending on your specific job) it's still pretty close-minded to write off all environmental engineers just for that reason. I also don't think it's fair to say that all environmental engineers are "flying a political flag" either. I don't see dedication to a set of ideals as a downside to a potential employee, as long as they're well-qualified. </p>

<p>And even if what you say is true, and other engineers are preferred, I'd rather have a slightly lower pay and love what I do than have great job security and be engineering urban sprawl or coal-fired power plants. You have to be able to live with yourself, not just make a lot of money. </p>

<p>For me, EE is already the middle ground between the two extremes. On one side of the scale I see the newer, trendier renewables programs that seem really neat but don't offer much of a safety net. On the other side I see mechanical or civil engineering, which would pay well and guarantee a job, but don't offer much fulfilment or satisfaction.</p>

<p>Essentially, EE isn't just something I think might be cool because it has the word "environmental" in it. I know the field I want to be in (renewable energy), I just have to figure out the best way to get there. I think environmental engineering is that way.</p>

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<p>As a counterargument, there are plenty of firms out there who know what environmental engineering is, who perform environmental engineering services, and who have no qualms about hiring environmental engineers. They know that the hippie tree-huggers dropped out of environmental engineering around the time that they discovered that most of environmental engineering involves preparing reports for high-rise condos, and designing landfills.</p>

<p>I'm currently out practicing in the field of civil engineering.</p>

<p>I'm also fairly skeptical of the idea that environmental engineering is a good starting point for research into renewable energy. The only renewable energy guy I know got his degree in electrical engineering.</p>

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<p>aibarr,</p>

<p>Definitely agree with you on the hippies comparison. :) Anyone who still views environmentalism that way is pretty out of touch.</p>

<p>It's hard to get accurate information on where I should be headed. I know that traditionally EE has been landfills, waste water, etc but I've heard that it's changing pretty fast, and I can't really think of anything that would be a better major choice for renewables. One of the things I really am afraid of is becoming a rubber stamp for (like you said) condos, sprawl, etc. My dad (not an EE, but doing similar work) is doing a lot of environmental work for the border fence. He gets to do some pretty cool stuff, but this isn't what I want to be doing in 30 years.</p>

<p>Do you think civil engineering is a better choice? If not, what would you recommend? Maybe the biggest problem I have is not being specialized enough. I don't want to do the extreme technical stuff like the internal turbine wiring, but I don't want to do the really broad stuff like business or management.</p>

<p>I'd love to hear any suggestions, my plans are far from set in stone.</p>

<p>Nils</p>

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<p>hey Nils,
I'm a junior in environmental engineering who was in your position a few years ago, except that I wasn't as informed as you are. I thought that environmental WAS renewable energy and it was heading in that direction in 2nd year. Unfortunately, my third year classes have nothing to do with renewable energy. However, I'm using my 4th year technical electives to take renewable energy classes and I'm doing an REU with a prof who researches in that field. </p>

<p>So...i think it is possible to get into renewable energy with environmental but I'd recommend chemical or mechanical.</p>

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<p>Yeah I think it's really a lot about what you make of it. I'm keeping my eyes and ears open for everyone's input, and I'm definitely going to reach out to professors and fellow students when I do get to college.</p>

<p>Basically I know I want to go into engineering of some sort, and I probably won't have to choose for at least a year, so I still have a lot of time to decide and do more research.</p>

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<p>It really depends on what end of the renewable spectrum you want to be on. If you want to design new technologies, then materials, chemical, EE, and even mechanical would be fine. If you want to think about implementation and such, then perhaps combining a Civil/Environmental with a Public Policy degree would be a good path.</p>

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<p>^so carnegie mellon would also be a good school to go. I heard they're good for specialization, but is that true? Would someone going to cmu for engineering, hoping to enter a renewable energy field, get good job prospects?</p>

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<p>I think at CMU you'd have pretty good job prospects, though it might suffer a little from lots of smaller start-ups or tiny tech companies that are located in Boston/California not visiting for their career fairs.</p>

<p><a href="http://www.studentaffairs.cmu.edu/career/employ/salary/CivE.pdf%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.studentaffairs.cmu.edu/career/employ/salary/CivE.pdf&lt;/a>
<a href="http://www.studentaffairs.cmu.edu/career/employ/salary/EPP.pdf%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.studentaffairs.cmu.edu/career/employ/salary/EPP.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>There's the link for what last year's grads from CMU CivE and E&PP wound up doing.</p>

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<p>I'm going to be a freshman next year at U of Wisconsin-Madison and I have similar interests to you. I want to be in renewable energies, but I also would like to get into environmental conservation too. I'm accepted into the school of engineering, it's just that I seem to switch between MechE, Civil/Enviro, and Geological engineering on a daily basis. I'm waiting for my orientation to talk with an adviser to see what they think best suits me. Whatever I choose I am going to have a minor (a certificate at UW) in environmental studies. Then after I graduate, Wisconsin has Graduate programs in like sustainable development and environmental technology that look interesting.</p>

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<p>Hi all,</p>

<p>Just wanted to give a little update on what I’ve decided and how things are looking:</p>

<p>First, I’m now at the University of Michigan. I still think that Stanford has a stronger renewable-related program but you take what you can get I guess. Michigan is very nice though and has a great engineering department; I would definitely recommend it here.</p>

<p>Unfortunately I haven’t made as much progress with the major choice. I have gone out of my way to talk to every single person who might have even the slightest piece of advice to offer, from grad students to professors to campus lecturers, but still haven’t been able to get a 100% clear answer. A few things I’ve learned though:</p>

<p>-Most renewable energy <em>research</em> is in chemical engineering. This is far from convincing me, but if you’re into research that might be the place to go.
-Civil/Environmental has little if anything to do with renewables. I’m in an “engineering overview” class right now and most of it is structural, geotechnical, etc. The parts that are environmental are mostly water or remediation based.
-Also, many grad programs are much more related to undergrad programs since they don’t have to pass the official accreditation standards. Just watch for the pre-requisite degrees, some are less logical than you think. </p>

<p>It seems that every aspect of engineering has some relation to renewable energy, nuclear engineering perhaps being the only exception. From what I’ve heard and from job postings I’ve read, it looks like electrical and mechanical engineering are the most desirable degrees for renewables work, but maybe not the most interesting or relevant. (?)</p>

<p>One of the best things I’ve heard so far was “No matter what program you study, only 30% of it will actually be applicable or relevant”. Of course I can’t speak to this personally, but it certainly seems to make sense from the difficulty I’m having finding a straight answer and since there is no “renewable energy engineering” program.</p>

<p>So to summarize this long rambling e-mail, I’m still desperately looking for advice. I don’t have to declare until the end of this year, but feel like I haven’t come much closer to a decision, even though I’ve learned a lot.</p>

<p>If anyone has any input whatsoever, even a “don’t do this” scenario, please post here. From all the postings it looks like a lot of people have a similar problem and I hope we can all help each other out.</p>

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<p>Civ/env is geared towards basic water quality and treatment or site remediation and cleanup. If you wanna do advanced water treatment or air quality stuff, you’d be better off with a chemical engineering degree or a degree from a school with a dedicated environmental engineering department. </p>

<p>As far as getting renewables work, industry positions in this field right now seem to be very limited. It seems to me like most renewable energy work is still in research, considering current renewable energy sources are either too expensive or too inefficient to replace fossil fuels.</p>

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<p>From what I have seen, I think your observation that ChemE research is the most in line with what you’re looking for. However, I would actually say that studying whatever undergraduate material interests you most is the way to go. </p>

<p>EE, Mech, Chem all have their ups and downs, but I think in the long run any of them can get you where you want to go. Wind farms are definately a way of the future and EE, Mech will both have a solid place there. Oil replacements like ethonol and all of the different things that are being done with crops to get ethonol will primarily lie within ChemE. Battery technology for future cars has a lot to do with materials science/engineering - and most of the research done with batteries is in this department. </p>

<p>I think it would be a good idea to specify which part you want to be involved in, as the underlying topic of renewables is pretty broad and will undoubtedly be tackled by any number of different departments.</p>

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<p>heeyyy!!
well nstannik, im in your exact chose and wasted a year of my life worrying and searching.
And here was i realized, whatever major you chose, you can trace it back to environmental/ renewable engineering.
If you’re intrested in the actual wiring of wind mills or whatever they are called and how they work, then go for electrical or maybe even mechanical engineering.
But keep in mind that you may not work in energy related jobs, depends on where you live.
Like where i live, if youre a mechanical engineer and your not working in energy related jobs, yooure going to work in things having to do with air conditionng which is veryy unbearable to me.
If you study chemical engineering, too much chemistry will drive me crazy if its not strictly related to what i want, so i cancelled it out.</p>

<p>Where I live, i’m not sure those energy stuff would become usable so im going to study civil engineering as a back up plan because it’s something i could do and i think i might like. Ima take the environmental part of it which is mostly water and wastewater… kinda disgusting but is related to environmental engineering. Then as a masters i can continue the energy stuff.
By the way check the syllabus for the university of British Columbia Vancouver >> major : biological and cheemical engineering (has an amazing environmental engineering program in it)</p>

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<p>I realize this thread is a fairly old, but I found it very interesting and thought I would share my experience and thoughts.</p>

<p>I too want to get in to renewable/alternative energy. Ive been researching schools for a while and decided to take a different route. Im very interested in wind energy. I researched schools and found many two year programs, and many graduate programs. This left me in a bit of confusion. So I researched options and found a great two year program that was a mix between wind science/engineering/technical maintenance at Lorain County Community College in Elyria, OH. Having lived in Ann Arbor for five years it wasn’t too hard to move 2.5 hours away and get into renewables. Great option. Ive been exposed to some amazing faculty, had an internship at a local engineering firm that is developing a prototype gearbox for commercial size wind turbines, and been able to climb wind turbines. As I near completion of my program Im pursuing a four year degree in electrical engineering. I too debated much like many here have of the best route to get into renewables. With many discussions from industry professionals and my instructors I decided EE was the best option for me. Many of my professors started by getting their degrees in EE. Twenty years into their careers they were able to adapt their unique experience to the vastly growing fields of wind and solar. These two fields are entirely comprised of electronics and electrical devices. And from much research in job openings in these fields, a four year degree in EE or Mech is a requirement. </p>

<p>From past experience alone, a degree alone does not guarantee you employment! It merely shows that you have had some training and helps you to be taken more seriously which can assist you to get an interview. Your experience in the work place is everything. This is where your internships, co-ops, work experience are vital. </p>

<p>What I have gathered from my discussion with my instructors is that you should pick a program that can work for you. As many have pointed out here, its hard to find a program that is the best one size fits all. Engineering should be something you are going to adapt to suit the direction you want to go with your career. Find a program with faculty doing research and teaching subjects that you are most interested in. Much of your fourth year will be senior projects. Having faculty that is interested in the same things you are will help adapt a program like EE to become renewable energy related. Internships in that field will also help. </p>

<p>The schools I have been looking at include the University of Colorado-Boulder, Penn State, and Case Western Reserve University. CU has a reputable EE program and faculty doing research in power systems and generation in the alt. energy spectrum. Penn State has (as many have pointed out) an Energy Engineering program. They also have a separate campus 2 hours east of main campus that has renewable studies in solar, wind, etc. And lastly Case Western has the Great Lakes Energy Institute where they are studying wind energy and researching offshore wind capabilities on Lake Erie. They also have a Renewable Energy Power System curriculum for undergraduates. </p>

<p>CU is at the top of my list. Its one of the most promising as far as local companies that are building turbines, researching options for efficiency, etc. They are also near NREL (National Renewable Energy Laboratory) which is a research facility of the US Dept. of Energy and offer internships, workshops, lectures, and Grad Student studies and work. Their faculty also sit highly on the board for IEEE. </p>

<p>While the student who started this thread is well into their education at U of M, I thought I would share this info with others looking to get into this field. </p>

<p>Good Luck.</p>

<p>-Alex</p>