<p>“In the case of Mini’s D, accepting an offer and then declining it is equivalent to accepting an offer of transfer admission and then deciding not to go (or pay) in September. If you tell a company that you are going to work for them in September, then you should ethically keep that commitment.”</p>
<p>She never accepted the offer. (which was for December, four months after the summer internship.) That’s the whole point. That’s what she could have done, and then later reneged if/when the better offer came along. She actually hadn’t even applied for one at this point. Instead, she told them precisely what her situation was, and their response was there would be a place for her whenever she wanted it (and I expect their estimation of her went up even further as a result - but that’s wholly beside the point.)</p>
<p>Look - I think it is unethical. I also know it is the way we are trained to think, and expected to act, so we have come to accept it as just part of the game. I don’t expect people to agree with me (after all, it would probably put a lot of people’s self-image at risk), but my opinion hasn’t changed, and I think the OP’s first instincts were right on target.</p>
<p>(And as for going overboard in the honesty department when it comes to admissions, my older d. - faced with the application question “Why X school?”, used half the space to note her concern that their most famous professor in the area in which she wished to study was now retiring, and that gave her pause. She received their highest academic scholarship - and a phonecall from the college president noting what they were planning to do to make up for his loss.)</p>
<p>I’m with mini, there’s a difference between what’s ethical and what’s legal. Generally speaking, if you are asking if something is ethical it probably isn’t. She doesn’t have to turn down the scholarship, just ask if it makes a difference if she plans to transfer.</p>
Mini, your opinion as to the ethical question is your own, and you are entitled to it. </p>
<p>But others disagree, and also have valid, worthwhile opinions. You don’t have to agree, but I find your dismissive attitude offensive. I certainly can think for myself and am not merely parroting something that I have been “trained” to think, and I think it is disrespectful for you to characterize differing points of view that way. </p>
<p>I personally don’t even get the ethical dilemma, and to me it is goes the other way – it seems that a wealthy kid would have the freedom to sign up for University A’s summer study abroad program at the same time as applying to transfer to University B and University C in the fall, whereas a student who can only afford to attend if given travel assistance is told that it is “unethical” to accept a scholarship for 1 term (summer) if the student isn’t absolutely committed to attending that university in the fall. One rule for rich kids, another rule for everyone else. How is that sort of double standard “ethical”?</p>
<p>With due respect, people debate about ethics all the time because it is not clear-cut and may depend, at times, on personal perspective: the culture, upbringing, and other contextual information. </p>
<p>When mini writes: “Look - I think it is unethical.” He is entitled to that view coming from his own perspective. But when he writes: “I also know it is the way we are trained to think, and expected to act, so we have come to accept it as just part of the game.” he is acknowledging that there are differences in perspectives–and admits the social norm differs from his belief. If the OP is interested in the expectations of the majority–or norm, in order to place her own concerns in context, this thread is doing a good job. </p>
<p>However, mini goes on to say: “I don’t expect people to agree with me (after all, it would probably put a lot of people’s self-image at risk),”</p>
<p>Really? What risk? If they feel no harm is done to the school, that scholarships do not come with unspoken you-lost-your-free-choice-for-4-years moral obligations, they are not buying into some tricky cop-out. You may take an opposing view, but I doubt your self-image will take a hit if I point out others disagree with you. </p>
<p>Addressing the original situation–there are unknowns for this student. Due to the slow application process, no student can know for certain right now that they will be permitted to transfer in the fall. What if she is denied by both schools? What if she changes her mind by then? All factors to weigh.</p>
<p>What makes ethical questions interesting is when there is something to gain and be lost by both possibilities.</p>
<p>If this helps with regard to the money for the airfare part. Go buy trip cancellation insurance. If you are still within the time frame of just having bought the airfare, you can buy cancel for any reason then you can remove the airfare money loss out of the equation.</p>
<p>Trip cancellation insurance usually provides coverage only under certain conditions – such as illness, a death in the family, etc. It’s not ordinarily going to give the family their money back if the traveler changes her mind – i.e., decides not to go on the study abroad program.</p>
<p>Good universities are not in the practice of offering fewer and fewer opportunities to students over time. The student’s value to the institution does not depreciate as she approaches graduation. She is not a refrigerator.</p>
<p>Universities are in business to make intelligent people more intelligent. If that mission is advanced by helping this particular student pursue a study-abroad experience, the objective is not diminished by the same student’s future decision to transfer (any more than it would be if she were about to graduate next year).</p>
<p>That’s how I would expect the college to see it (“pay it forward”). I would think this student was chosen because she had clear goals, was considered able to benefit from the program, and had a need (not because she’s being groomed for a position or trained to a task.)</p>
<p>Mini - You misunderstood me. What I meant was, IF she had accepted the job offer, and reneged if a better offer came along, she would be acting unethically because accepting a job offer IS an explicit commitment that you are going to work for the company.</p>
<p>In the OP’s cause, the D has committed to attending the study abroad program and received a scholarship to do so. Reneging upon that commitment may or may not be unethical, depending on the exact circumstances and mutual expectations; but she hasn’t committed to anything, explicitly OR implicitly, besides fulfilling the conditions of her scholarship and participating fully in the activities of the summer study abroad which the university is funding. If there’s no commitment, therefore, there is no “breaking” of any type of agreement.</p>
<p>And I do think this is a debatable question. My perspective is just that, mine; but I would also disagree that I have been “trained” to think this.</p>
<p>I’m from the school that if you need to ask and rationalize, it’s unethical. Is it going to come back to haunt you/your daughter is another question.</p>
<p>The scholarship recipient (the daughter) didn’t ask… therefore nothing to rationalize.* It’s the parent asking the question… and part of the impetus for that seems to be emotional rather than ethical. (The mom was irked that her kid hadn’t told her about the transfer plans, and the parents may be having 2nd thoughts about paying for the airfare for study abroad related to a program/major that the d. may not continue with.)</p>
<p>*I kind of think it’s an odd analysis, that “if you have to ask, it’s unethical” – precisely because that would imply a sort of situational ethics that depends on the thought processes involved. There are a lot of real life situation that involve making ethical choices, and of course the question has to be asked. For example, medical researchers have to regularly consider ethics in any sort of clinical trial involving human patients – there is always an ethical question, and there are committees in place who are charge with weighing the ethics in every single case. So by the “if you have to ask” rational, you’d have to argue that all medical research on human patients is unethical.</p>
<p>^No. Not at all, what I am saying is that if you are posting on a message board because you have a nagging feeling that it’s unethical chances are it is. At least by your personal standards. I’m not saying that every ethical situation is clear cut. I also think often (as in Mini’s example) of his daughter’s honesty in her “Why __ College” essay , that truthfulness is such a rare commodity these days that you may actually have better results even when by all logic it seems you wouldn’t. I don’t think it would hurt the OP’s daughter to inquire whether the school cares. I think there’s a good chance that they don’t.</p>
<p>If this were my daughter, I’d be advising her to ask the coordinator of the study abroad program for his/her input. It’s rarely a problem to have too much information. If the coordinator has no problem, then there is no dilemma. It is the school’s right to give money and to take it away. My guess it would be just the scholarship taken away, not the place in the program. </p>
<p>As to the earlier post the scholarship question being unfair to poor kids because rich ones could just go on their own dime and then transfer: Welcome to America! There is always a difference in what rich and poor people can do. I have someone from my church dying because he cannot get on a transplant list without fronting enough money to qualify. This is a trip, and yes it would be sad not to be able to take it, but it won’t kill her.</p>
<p>I disagree with tk (post 49). Universities are in the business of making money. They do it by bringing customers in to buy their service. Like any business, each one wants to convince the customer that their U is the best value. I could pretend they are there only to educate the masses, but I cannot believe it. College costs prove it isn’t philanthropic.
Just like a grocery store, sometimes a U is willing to give up something (like an item on sale) to gain somewhere else. Some will give scholarships to fine musicians, scholars, athletes, and others. A school can gain by raising the average ACT or having a high-profile band, or a stadium full of people and money from sales of sports collectibles. Sometimes having milk on sale leads to many other purchases. Sometimes a customer only buys the milk.
I see no secret implied promise. I might see hopes for BOTH parties, but that is far different. A student might hope for a wonderful job after graduation. If it doesn’t happen has the college broken an unspoken, implied promise that their career training would lead to a good job?
If I hit the lottery as a Soph, and quit school would I be betraying my school if I had a 4 yr scholarship? Certainly if I quit mid semester I’d owe any fees due that semester, but beyond that? Some here would say I MUST still attend 4 yrs because the college expected that when they awarded the 4 yr scholarship.</p>
<p>A lot of people also do not have any ethical problem in buying multiple dresses, take them home, keep one (or none) and return rest of them. Some poeple would even wear it once and then return it. Most people feel it’s perfectly fine because stores are for profit and they factor all of that into their costs. It is correct because the “opportunity cost” of having those merchandise out of the store is paid by other customers. I am on of those shoppers who never take anything out of the store, unless I have intent of keeping the merchandise, and I do not return unless there is a defect.</p>
<p>As mentioned by some posters, ethic is a very personal issue.</p>
<p>You’re right about that, oldfort. (I think) it was Calmom who talked about using a service then not paying for it. But as she pointed out, that isn’t the case here. The student intends to pay for the service the way the school wants, thru attendance, but the student MAY choose not attend further, beyond this trip. So relating your example, it would be like buying and wearing one dress, but then possibly not shopping at that store again.</p>
<p>I generally tend toward Mini’s perspective. At the minimum the OP’s D is disingenuous to take the summer scholarship knowing that she may be somewhere different in the fall. I would be upset with a kid that applied for a scholarship (that presumably others would have liked to receive who are planning on staying at the college) at the same time planning a transfer.</p>
<p>The way I see it, there are two (or perhaps even three) competing ideas among the posters in this thread. One is if you have met the letter of the law, there is no ethical problem. This theory clearly falls apart in certain circumstances (i.e. if you neighbor is being stabbed, you have no legal obligation to call the police, but you should ethically do it). Others think that you must apply ethics even if you may have met the letter of the law, because you violate the spirit of the law by not disclosing certain information. A last thought, that is related to the second idea is that of altruistic behavior that benefits the community as a whole, not necessarily the individual’s best interest. In a sense I think Mini’s and Oldfort’s (and maybe I left someone else out) may lean in this direction.</p>
<p>My own take on this particular situation is that it probably violates the spirit of the law, if it does not violate the letter of the law. Naturally, the world would be a better place if people were altruistic, but it is a difficult thing.</p>