Hello,
I am having some trouble with which box to check off as my ethnicity. For starters, I am 100 percent ashkenazic Jewish. However, my dad’s family has lived in Venezuela since the 1800s. Should I check of the latinx box or the white box? I don’t know if it matters, but I am fluent in Spanish. Any input is helpful thanks.
This will make a lot more sense when you look at the actual choices in the Common App. The ethnicity question is “are you Hispanic or Latino?” yes or no. It also provides an opportunity to be more specific (South America). The race question is separate, and the choice would be white. That, too, provides further opportunity to be more specific. (Please understand that most Hispanics also check white for race because there is no Mestizo category.)
Do you feel Latinx? Then check the box.
Don’t feel Latinx, don’t check the box.
No one is going to come after you asking you to show how Venezuelan you are. Truly, the boxes are so the colleges and universities can have numbers to report back to the Dept. of Ed, not so they can pass judgment n applicants.
Oh and warch Joanna Rants on youtube to help with the whole Venezuelan/US/Ashkenazi thing.
Suerte chamo/chama!
It’s not just if you “feel Latinx.” Do you have ongoing connections to the culture, will it show? Adcoms don’t just do this for numbers. They want the diversity of perspectives.
But sure, check what you feel applies. Just try to remember they do review your app.
There are two separate issues here:
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To show the Dept. of Ed. that the colleges/universities aren’t discriminating against any particular group. The boxes have to be there, and applicants have to be offered the chance to check them. Whether any individual chooses to check one, all, some, or none of the race and ethnicity boxes is up to that person. The institutions can’t require that a student indicate anything, and they can’t look at a student’s files and decide which box(es) the student “should” or “shouldn’t” have checked. Plenty of institutions don’t do anything with information that other than pool the data from the applications, and forward it on to the appropriate local/state/federal offices.
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Some colleges and universities that consider diversity important will take the boxes checked into consideration at some point in the application process. Of those, some will hope to find an indication in the student’s application that the student has a particular connection with a cultural group. But those are also the same institutions that will be interested in a special essay about growing up in a small town, or on a farm, or being home schooled while your family traveled the world as circus performers, or growing up Jewish-Venezuelan-American and knowing a recipe for kosher-style hallacas.
In general, Ashkenazi Jews in South America, most the descendants of early 20th century immigrants or WWII refugees, are not considered Latinos, any more than the Italians or Germans who arrived in Argentina in the last century would. Sephardi Jews from South America, who are mostly there since the 15th and 16th centuries, though, are generally considered Hispanic. Mizrahi Jews who arrived in the last century would also likely no be thought of as Hispanic.
My grandfather, who immigrated to the USA in the 1920s, had some cousins who immigrated to Argentina. It is a bit silly to say that their children would be considered Hispanic, but my father would not, just because where they happened to be born.
Next time I speak with them, I’ll be sure to tell my great-grandparents, who have lived in the Southern Cone for all their 90+ years, that the wise sages on College Confidential have decreed that they are not Latino, since their parents “only” emigrated to Argentina in the early 20th century. I wish the eyeroll emoji still worked.
This just shows how complex the issue of identity is. Or can be.
Nor would it be enough, Ski, for anyone here to tell you she is.
Adcoms aren’t just looking for a tick in the right box(es.) They like pulling together various perspectives in a class. That extends well beyond what or where you’re born and raised. I’d say, forget what colleges are required to report. Not our job. Instead, focus on the admit process. CC discusses it endlessly. Try to sort valid from guesses.
Getting in is more than deciding how to answer the ethnicity and race question. It’s not a test question you either get right or lose points on.
Make your best choice and move on. The rest of your app matters, getting that ‘right.’
You qualify as Latino under federal/NHRP definitions. Definitely check off the Hispanic box, it will give you a sizeable boost in the admissions process.
The colleges don’t care if you “feel Latino” (whatever that means) and neither should you.
Just remember these checks marks are there forever.
There are current examples of why you want to be thoughtful and honest.
If you’re looking for an edge just be careful.
But that’s not to say your checking whatever box is not perfectly in line with your life and culture.
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I would only ask yourself what would you do if it had no potential value for college admissions?
You know what is true and honest. Check those, whichever they may be for you.
It’s interesting that similar questions have come up twice this year, whereas I don’t recall seeing any similar discussion when we were thinking about these issues last year. My son ended up writing his Common App essay about the inadequacies of the “check the box” approach. I don’t agree that colleges don’t care if you “feel Latino,” assuming you feel that way for reasons that you can explain and that make them think you might be an interesting addition to their class. That is, I believe, the point that @lookingforward is trying to make. The situation gets mucky, however, because, in addition to that kind of “holistic” diversity, there is also the diversity that matters for demographic purposes. Trying to answer this question strategically in hopes of creating an admissions advantage is a mistake - in addition to basic ethical considerations, as @privatebanker suggests, you don’t want to end up with a problem twenty years down the road based on a questionable response. My son’s background is complex, so he struggled with this question but finally decided he would check all of the boxes that applied but also find a way to explain why they applied.
@skieurope I’m sorry, but ethnicity is not acquired by osmosis. If your great grandparents were kids of immigrants from Europe, with no Hispanic parentage, they did not magically become Latino just because they happened to be born in Argentina and learned Spanish at school. It’s great that they lived so long, but living 90+ years in a country does not change your ethnicity.
“It’s great that they lived so long, but living 90+ years in a country does not change your ethnicity.”
Actually it does if they embrace cultural/language aspects of where they live. Ethnicity is cultural not race based.
@doschicos So any German dude that moves to Venezuela lives there for a few years and learns Spanish is now Hispanic,and any kid who does Spanish immersion in HS, and goes and lives in Costa Rica for a few years as part of Peace Corps, is now Hispanic. After all, they all fulfill your requirements for ethnicity - they embrace cultural/language aspects of where they live.
As a matter of fact, why do they have to live in a Hispanic country? Hispanics in the USA are still Hispanic, even though they’re not living in a Hispanic country. So anybody who embraces aspects of Hispanic cultural/language can be considered Hispanic.
If I decide tomorrow to speak Spanish at home, make traditional Mexican food, take on some Mexican traditions, that makes me Hispanic, doesn’t it? Why would moving to Mexico City make a difference? If you require me to live among Hispanic people, I can just move to Berwyn, IL, which is 60% Hispanic.
A few years, no. Many generations, yes. There are many families of German or Japanese ancestry who have lived in S. America for generations. Yes, I would consider them latino in terms of their ethnicity. To me, length of time does factor in because, unless they are living in an isolated enclave, they do embrace the culture.
Whether intentionally or not, you are straining the conversation talking about days and a couple years. Remember that you started critiquing the example of @skieurope with 90 years of history. It’s about ancestry in terms of cultural attributes.
One cannot embrace culture in a meaningful way measured by days and a few years.
Yes, many generation, especially as a family intermarries, etc. Two or three generations, while staying isolated from the surrounding cultures in many different ways, is a different story. Skieurope’s great grandparents were first generation in South America. Ashkenazi Jews in South America mostly retained the European and Jewish parts of their culture for a very long time, and did not adapted much of the surrounding non-European culture, aside from the language. If you consider yourself Ashkenazi, it also means that the main part of your non-Jewish identity is tied to Europe (the Jewish identity is, of course, tied to the Middle East).
Ashkenazi Jews aren’t the only people in Argentina who hold on to their European cultural heritage, which is why you have people like the present Pope who is still considered Italian. Sephardic Jews, on the other hand, come from the same culture as the Spaniard and Portuguese ancestors of many or most Latinos.
Of course, recent genetic studies which indicate that Ashkenazi Jews are mostly descended from Middle Eastern men and Roman women means that Ashkenazim may be more Latin than they realize…
But it’s not unethical if you really ARE that ethnicity. And the OP really is Hispanic/Latino according to any definition that’s in use. I think all these people asking if they “feel Hispanic” are really off the mark. Many people who are in minority ethnic or racial groups in the US have the vanilla American culture at home, but they’re still considered minorities (just because of the color of their skin?). A growing number of children whose parents come from Mexico/Guatemala/India don’t speak any languages except English. And anyways, Hispanic is a category which encompasses European Spanish, so it doesn’t exclude people of European ancestry.
This is important because race/ethnicity does matter for admissions. Before the Michigan affirmative action case, being Hispanic gave twice the advantage of being Michigan in-state. The schools are simply looking to admit more Hispanics, they don’t care about what kind exactly (as they shouldn’t).
I encourage people not to get caught up in these finer distinctions of ethnicity. After all, the colleges don’t even distinguish between Indian, Chinese, and Vietnamese, nor between Lebanese, English, and Serbian. We don’t have to be race theorists to answer these questions. I wonder why people are so concerned about this. Is it just that you’re worried that people who are claiming minority ethnicities are unfairly taking away your kids’ spots? Or taking away spots from more “deserving” minorities?
You misspelled “home.” @MWolf
I never said it changed; if you ask my bisabuelos, they would say they were like that from day 1. Perhaps my great-great-grandparents were in the minority, but they assimilated. My understanding is that they usually spoke Spanish to my great-grandparents, which remains the language in which they are more comfortable communicating. Most cultural aspects of the “Old World” were long ago lost, which is unfortunate in its own way.
I’d say most people consider Francis to be Latino.You are certainly entitled to your viewpoint, but IMO you’re trying to make the situation black-and-white (no pun intended), where the reality is that there is a lot of grey area.
It’s interesting that in another thread:
http://talk.qa.collegeconfidential.com/discussion/comment/22290096/#Comment_22290096
you seem to advocate that there are grey areas in science yet seem to be inclined to think that ethnicity is cut and dried.
Regardless, as I said earlier with regards to the OP, it does not matter what I think, or what you think, or how the OP “feels,” or what box was checked on HS registration or SAT answer sheet, because the college may classify as it sees fit.
Exactly. And if you offer no particular perspective other than some family origin or where you live, no special something works magic.
“After all, the colleges don’t even distinguish between Indian, Chinese, and Vietnamese, nor between Lebanese, English, and Serbian…” Sure, they can. They read your app package, not a machine. But again, this is more than ticking a box.
Science = our attempts at describing what’s happening in the real world, using human constructs.
Ethnicity = human construct.
That is why you can prove mathematical hypotheses, but not scientific hypotheses. Math is a human construct, so 1+1 is always 2, and the sum of the angles in a triangle is always 180 degrees in plane geometry - those are cut and dried. However, saying that sexually reproducing organisms have two sexes is not cut and dried. There are species which have 13 or more sexes.
I agree.