Eventual Transfer: Financial Crisis

Paying for College
1

<p>I am double posting this in the financial aid area, and here because the question applies to both areas. I know its long but I really need your help. PLEASE READ IT, I would greatly appreciate your help. :)</p>

<p>I am seriously considering transferring from Michigan State after my first year. The financial aid package while meeting all of my need, was packed with a lot more loans than I thought at first. I am going to have to take close to 10,000 out in loans my FIRST year along with work study. This was not what I was hoping for. If I keep on going this route I will be 40,000+ dollars in debt for a STATE SCHOOL.</p>

<p>I also still have to go to Med School, so note how much more debt I will also have to take on for that.</p>

<p>I should of applied for scholarships at my school, but was dumb and didn't apply for any, because,
1. I didn't think I could win because of my superstar val. best friend scooping them all up, and
2. Pure clean uncut laziness</p>

<p>I'm upset becuz only after the deadlines passed I realized that a lot of the local scholarships other people won basically by default becuz of lack of comp. and I know I did a lot more activites and had a better gpa than a lot of people in my school that got the many local scholarships.</p>

<p>The only reason I know this is because my GC, talked to after all is said and done and is like</p>

<p>"Why didn't you apply for any scholarships, you could of won a lot of them, because of what you did in high school, a lot of them in fact had little or no comp. becuz a lot of people didn't apply or didn't apply right"
I was very angry! And when my parents found out I didn't apply to any scholarships they both blew up.</p>

<p>But I have no one to blame but myself. :(</p>

<p>So I would like to transfer to a school with a better financial aid policy, that would give me more money given that I do great in college. Preferably after my 1st year so I only put myself in a 10,000 dollar hole to start off with, instead of a 2 yr 20,000 dollar hole.</p>

<p>The schools that I have seen with consistent good financial aid policies seem to be the LAC's. My friend got all of her best aid packages from the LAC's she got into like Amherst and Williams, though these would seem to be unnaturally hard to get into due to them being LACs and thus less spots plus Im a transfer.</p>

<p>The only thing holding me back are my high school grades. Heres my stats.</p>

<p>Say Reach, Match, or Safety and other information plz.</p>

<p>G.P.A - 3.2
ACT-27
School doesn't offer AP but have taken tons of college classes through dual enrollment program.
Probably in top 30 to 40% of class
Live in Michigan
African-American Male
Low-Income
Japanese Major (pre-med track though)</p>

<p>COURSEWORK:
I am in a special program for all of the students in my county that want to become doctors. I have about 20+ credits at a local community college where we were required to take college classes. I got all A's and a couple B's for the courses except for my human anatomy class which was a C so I withdrew from it. I have taken at the college:</p>

<p>Human Anatomy, Medical Terminology, CPR & First Aid, Health Information, Psychology 201, Elementary Japanese, along with some others</p>

<p>I have generally taken all the hardest courses I could at my school such trig, 3 years of spanish and our highest level of science.</p>

<p>A LITTLE ABOUT MYSELF:
I had around a 3.5, until my junior year. I had some health problems that were involving my eyes and I was given a wrong prescription. Due to this I missed a lot of school and always had migraines but the doctors didn't find out until near the end of my junior year. I explained this in my app and so did my counselor and she wrote an excellent rec but I dont think colleges care that much. As I was rejected from schools that I could of prolly of gotten into without my bad year. My senior year I am back on track with my first semester obtaining a 3.6 and my second semester a 3.8 gpa.</p>

<p>I could of done A LOT better in high school, but I was extremely lazy. I had a 3.5 gpa my first 2 yrs, but this is surprising to me, as I NEVER STUDIED. Seriously, I can't remember the last time I studied, for anything, tests, midterm, final, ANYTHING. Even my ACT I basically didn't study for. I basically went in their blind. I could of easily gotten a 4.0 in HS, had I studied even an hour a day, but I never saw the reason, becuz I did good, but not great anyway. And I know I could of got a 30+ on my ACT, had I even studied a week for it. My behavior is changing slowly but surely now though. I only studied a LITTLE for my second semester in high school and I obtained a good gpa. I'm conquering my bad study habits and laziness little by little. THANK GOD, before college.</p>

<p>ECS:
I went to state and nationals(don't know nationals rank yet as it hasn't happened yet, but 2nd for my event at state) for Health Occupations Students of America Club. Went to state for Business Professionals of America. Did a little volunteer work. Have a lot of hospital experience as my program requires we spend hundreds of hours in the hospital with doctors. Come from a poor family and could explain my experiences of living in the ghetto and other things in my application. I have always gone to a predominantly white school in a nearby town though. Very cool, but also very different. I don't think there are that many black male japanese majors out there.</p>

<p>TRANSFER SCHOOLS CONSIDERING: (good fin. aid only plz.)
LAC's(Amherst, Williams, Swarthmore, Pomona, Wesleyan, Grinnell, Vassar)
University of Chicago
University of Michigan
Georgetown
Rice University
YOUR INPUT</p>

<p>I am open to any schools that you guys would think would be a good idea. I would like a school that would ideally give me a better fin. aid package than Michigan State, and it doesn't have to be a top top school, but I would like it to be "better" than Michigan State. The schools I listed are more dream schools. I'm not even sure if those schools give good fin. aid so plz EDUCATE ME.</p>

<p>And could I even get into these schools saying I obtained a 3.8+ gpa in college, after my first year, or would I have to try to transfer in as a spring sophomore or a junior, due to my high school record holding me back. I heard that spring transfer fin. aid can be bad though considering that you are a transfer and most of the schools money has been given to the fall enrollees.</p>

<p>And what about scholarships, how hard is it for college students to obtain scholarships, and are there slim pickings after you leave high school.</p>

<p>AHHHH, so many questions, so little time. Your guys input would be INVALUABLE. Thanks for even reading this long post to those of you who got all the way down here. :)</p>

2

<p>You will need to check on a couple of things...first the percentage of students these schools accept as transfers. Getting IN to these schools will be your first step. AND then you need to look into the percentage of aid awarded that is NOT loans to transfer students. While most of these schools meet need, their costs are MUCH higher than instate university costs. And they could meet your need with a hefty loan package. And lastly, you will need to be realistic about your prospects at these very highly competitive schools. Now...you may find you actually LIKE Michgan State...and that its programs meet your need well. Also, you can check into departmental scholarships there that might be awarded to upperclass students who achieve well. Good luck to you.</p>

3

<p>Thanks a lot thumper. :)</p>

<p>I like Michigan State but I dont know if i want to go into 40,000+ dollars of debt prolly more like 50,000+ for a state school. Especially since I still have to go to med school.</p>

<p>I know there are some other schools that give better fin aid and I would like to attend those. Do you know where I can find the percentage of transfer acceptances, and how much of your aid is loans.</p>

<p>And do I even have a chance at any of those schools considereng my high school record? Like I like Amherst, but my friend is going there so I don't even know if I would apply there, and is there even a point considering low LAC acceptance rates.</p>

<p>Thanks for your respnses.</p>

4

<p>It can be extremely hard getting excellent financial aid as a transfer.
As alternatives to MSU, you could:</p>

<ol>
<li><p>Live at home and go to a local community college for 2 years and then go to a state university.</p></li>
<li><p>Take a gap year and do something like Americorps, which would earn you abuot $200 a week plus about $4,700 that you can use for college. It's not too late to apply for Americorps to enter it this fall. </p></li>
</ol>

<p>Then, you could apply more wisely to colleges. Given the fact that you're low income and --if you do Americorps -- will have done lots of volunteer work, you may be able to get excellent aid from colleges participating in programs like Bonners Scholars (Google it) or from other colleges that have particularly generous aid for students who've done lots of community service.</p>

<p>Frankly, I think it would be a big mistake for you to go to MSU and take on $10 k debt for your freshman year even if you plan to transfer. $10 k in debt is half the total amount of debt that the average college student takes on for 4 years of college.</p>

5

<p>"If I keep on going this route I will be 40,000+ dollars in debt for an okay but not great STATE SCHOOL."</p>

<p>I disagree with your characterization Kenshinsan. I think MSU's among the best public colleges in the country.</p>

6

<p>Oh, I luv MSU, don't take it the wrong way. I just don't feel it is worth being 40,000 to 50,000, dollars in debt.</p>

7

<p>If you want to go to MSU for undergrad, you may be able to afford it if you spend 2 years in community college and then transfer.</p>

8

<p>I don't think I would EVER want to go to the local CC because of its nickname 13th grade due to about 70% of my class going there, it would be like high school all over again.</p>

<p>I really would like to go to MSU, for all 4 years, I am just trying to find ways to make it more financially capable. Mind you a lot of the debt isn't under my name but my parents name, so thats why I'm concerned, in the future this won't necessarily be my problem, but their problem too.</p>

<p>What I'm looking for is ways to attend for my freshman year but make it less of a financial hit the rest of the years down the road. Be this, transferring, scholarships, programs, ANYTHING. Ideally I would like to stay all 4 years at MSU, but is this truly smart?</p>

<p>All of your input has been greatly appreciated.</p>

9

<p>I'd stomp on up to the finaid office and explain to them I don't have a bank hidden away in my intestines. Then, I would start looking for a part-time job, and start applying to the scholarships (school-funded and beyond) I missed the first time around.</p>

<p>For what it's worth, I'll be in a similar debt hole as you ($36,000+). They are "nice" government loans with very low interest and very lenient repayment rates, and I ended up transferring into an Ivy Schmivy, but when all's said and done none of us know what our degrees will mean five, ten, fifteen years from now.</p>

<p>I agree that you should be thinking of transferring, but before you make less concrete plans like possibly maybe perhaps getting in somewhere else, please, please, start taking tangible steps towards improving your loan situation NOW.</p>

<p>Edit: I know $36,000 sounds like a lot, but it's lenient enough that barely $100 bucks will have to be paid back per month depending on how high my wage is. Paying it back over 25 years is a pretty decent deal imho, and I can't say I regret it that much -- however, I know the situation for people from less welfare-oriented countries is very very different.</p>

10

<p>I do not think it is smart to go to MSU and carry that amount of debt. </p>

<p>Taking a gap year and then applying to some 4-year colleges where you're likely to get good aid is an option to consider if you don't want to start at your local CC and then transfer.</p>

<p>Lots of colleges do not give good aid to transfer students. Also, wherever you go to college, usually your best financial aid is freshman year. That includes the amount of loans that you're expected to carry, which usually increase each year.</p>

<p>Also do follow my advice and post in Parents' Forum as the parents here are very knowledgeable and helpful.</p>

<p>Due to having less scholarship funds than many private institutions, I am not aware of any public institutions that guarantee to meet 100% of students' financial need. Public institutions give large loan packages and also gap aid, providing much less aid than students need. Stomping to the financial aid office won't help you.</p>

<p>Depending on your stats and what you do during a gap year (As I mentioned, being an Americorps volunteer would be a big plus for you), you'd have a better chance of getting better aid by applying next year to lesser ranked 4-year public institutions in Michigan, which are likely to give you merit aid. You also may be able to get excellent aid from a private university. Usually colleges that are a tier below your match schools will be your best options for excellent financial (if the colleges don't guarantee to meet 100% of financial need) and merit aid.</p>

<p>You also qualify for being a Ventures Scholar, which is for URMs and first generation college students interested in science careers. Look them up on the web. See if it's possible for you to enroll in it now because there are schools that offer scholarships to those scholars. In addition, Ventures Scholars can help you throughout your college career reach your goal of going to med school.</p>

11

<p>I agree with Northstar Mom. If you could post more details about your FA award, it would be helpful. Given what you have said, it seems like your FA award is out of line. You have loans of 10k out of a total cost of attendence.
I would contact the financial aid office or consider a GAP year like Northstar Mom reccomended. Your HS GPA is low but you have good ECs and previous college credits.</p>

12

<p>Here's what I got from the US News Premium College website about MSU's financial aid:</p>

<p>42% of MSU freshmen were determined to have financial need. 32% of them had their need fully met by MSU. Keep in mind, however, that those students may have had relatively minimal financial need.</p>

<p>27% of all undegraduates had their need fully met.</p>

<p>The average need-based scholarship was $4,322 for freshmen, $4,167 for all undergrads.</p>

<p>The average amount of loans for freshmen was $2,748, for all undergrads (this refers to the loan each year), $3,861.</p>

<p>Yearly self help (work study, loans) for freshmen was $3,604; for all undergrads, $4,277.</p>

<p>The average percentage of financial need that was met was 77% for freshmen, 72% for all undergrads.</p>

<p>If you are very serious about going to med school, I think that MSU is not a good choice for you. You'd probably have much better chances of getting to med school by going to a liberal arts college with strong science programs and small classes. </p>

<p>The premed courses --particularly freshmen chemistry -- are killer classes everywhere. They particularly are difficult at large state schools where hundreds of students may be taking the course, and the failure rates are very high. Professors aren't nurturing, and don't give a darn whether students flunk. </p>

<p>Many of the successful students have taken very rigorous AP chemistry courses and had SAT II scores in math and science in the 700s.</p>

<p>While you say you did well in in dual enrollment classes, if those were at your local community college, they would not match the rigor of the AP courses at top high schools.</p>

<p>If your main reason of going to college is to become a doctor, then I'd suggest that you take a gap year and apply to places like Earlham. It is a small liberal arts college in Indiana that has a very strong science program and also has a strong program in Japanese. It has a nurturing environment. It does very well placing students in graduate and professional schools.</p>

<p>It also has very nice financial aid including merit aid and you'd probably be in line to get some as Earlham wants to be more diverse.</p>

<p>In Michigan, Calvin College probably also would be a good place for you to go in terms of aid and the academic environment.</p>

<p>Given your background and self description of having had some laziness and lack of confidence, I think that you'd be far better off at a liberal arts college because what those colleges are noted for is having professors who enjoy teaching and mentoring and helping all students reach their potential. Large universities like MSU are places where professors are valued based on their ability to do research, not teach. </p>

<p>Of course, if you are viewing the partying aspect of college as being of utmost importance, colleges such as the ones that I'm suggesting won't match what MSU offers. However, if you are committed to being a doctor, and also want to have an affordable college experience, then what I'm suggesting could be the best ways for your reaching your career goal without carrying a lot of debt.</p>

<p>My husband was first gen college, inner city Chicago, black male who went to Calvin, and has done very well in his career including in graduate school, having got a top national fellowship to go to grad school. One of his friends at Calvin, another black male, first gen college, inner city background, became a doctor. Another friend became an extremely successful businessman -- president of a company -- and is now a state representative in a major state.</p>

<p>Taking a gap year and doing something like fulltime volunteering or working will help, not hurt you in college admissions. Speaking from the perspective of having had a S who will be going to college this fall after a gap year with Americorps. Colleges were extremely impressed by his Americorps experience, and he got merit aid.</p>

13

<p>Here is something my financial aid package looks like: Ill round to make it easier.</p>

<p>Estimated Cost of Attendance: 18,700</p>

<p>Parent Loan (PLUS): 4,200
Stafford Loan: 3,600
Perkins Loan: 1,300
Work Study: 2,400</p>

<p>Equals:9,100 in loans plus work study
The rest are grants and scholarships.
My EFC was something like 2,100.</p>

<p>Is this normal with someone with my EFC, and for a state school to give me this many loans.</p>

<p>Should I go to the Fin. Aid office and ask them why I had so many loans? I might talk with my parents about taking a gap year, and see if they like it, but given the track record of many black families children we know, they took "gap" years, to do other things and either never ended up going to college, got someone pregnant, in a dead end job, or are going to college 5-10 years later. So I'm not sure how keen on the idea they might be. </p>

<p>My dad was just complaining about my stepsisters that went to do some volunteering after high school. The oldest had a 3.93, and was Salutatorian in her school. That was almost 3 years ago. She was in some volunteering program for about 2 years in texas doing some kind of missionary work. She cant do that anymore so she has come home but doesn't really want to go to college, even though she knows she needs to go. She did lots of EC's in high school, and is basically fluent in french (she had some obsession with it for the longest time which got her so good.) She could probably get into a VERY good school, but she has gotten SO lazy. She could have a shot at ivy and such but knows nothing about college process and doesn't seem to care. My dad and stepmom just gave her an ultimatum, so she will be going to the local community college in the spring semester. Her year younger sister that had a 3.8 and pretty good ECS too, is following in the same steps, and refused to come home to go to college, so she could stay her second and final year in the missionary program. Because of these reasons my mom would be okay with it because she doesn't know the situation with my stepmom and dad, but my dad I can almost guarantee would make me go to MSU no matter what, or offer no support. And since he is the one with more money it would be stupid to go against him.</p>

<p>If I'm faced with this ultimatum, what should I do. Should I look more towards scholarships or towards transferring. Transferring while it might be fun, would seem kind of hectic for a pre-med due to them needing to build relationships with teachers for rec., getting to know their pre-med advisor, etc.</p>

14

<p>Yes, it is very normal for state schools go give so much in loans. State schools have less scholarship $ than do probably most first and second tier private colleges, so often one can get a much, much better deal from private colleges even though the private colleges tuition and board costs are higher. </p>

<p>At the colleges that I listed before, you'd probably carry much less in loans than you are at MSU. Take a look at the financial aid web sites for those colleges and you'll see what I mean.</p>

15

<p>This situation is very disappointing, I will try talking to my dad about taking a gap year today and see what he says. He really wants me to go to MSU though and is always comparing me to my stepsisters, about how proud he is of me that I'm starting college before my step sisters who graduated high school a while before me. He was disappointed for a while that I didn't get into U of M, even though he knew I prolly wouldn't but, after seeing the MSU campus and talking to the faculty he was all uppity about me going there.</p>

16

<p>The bottom line, though, is that you need to make the decison that is in your own best interests based on the facts -- not people's biases -- about which school will give you the best financial aid and the academic experience that would best help you attain the kind of academic and career success that you are capable of attaining.</p>

<p>If you check rankings, you'll see that some of the colleges that people like me have mentioned that you could apply to while taking your gap year are more highly ranked than is Michigan State. </p>

<p>Calvin is ranked. by US News #1 in the Midwest for being a comprehensive college offering a bachelor's degree. This ranking is for institutions lacking graduate programs, and the ranking is extremely important to students like you because you are exactly the type of student who'd most benefit by a school that emphasizes undergraduate education.</p>

<p>I feel so strongly about this, incidentally, that my younger S -- who has lots in common with you -- will be going to the #1 ranked comprehensive college in Florida. </p>

<p>I also strongly suggest that you call ior e-mail the admissions offices at some of the schools that have been mentioned here. Tell them about yourself and that you are considering taking a gap year and applying to their college. Tell them about MSU's acceptance and financial aid offer, and ask them if they believe that you'd have better chances for aid with them.</p>

<p>You would be a highly desireable student for the schools we're mentioning, and I think they would go out of their way to treat you well including by answering your questions, hosting you and giving you excellent aid.</p>

<p>You are very unlikely to get into places like Amherst and Georgetown even if you go to MSU and manage to get stellar grades. However, if you go to the kind of LACs that I suggest that you look at, if you work up to your potential, you'd have good chances of going to higher ranked professional or graduate school.</p>

<p>Also do take the time to look at Americorps. It is an absolutely excellent program that is very well respected. There's at least one other parent on CC who's kid went through it. My S has gained valueable skills that include a certificate in supervising volunteers. He also has served on boards along with top leaders in our city, and he routinely meets with top city officials, and is in charge of organizing programs and events.</p>

<p>As a result, he has gained many skills and has grown a great deal in terms of being mature and responsible, all things that will boost his chances of doing well in college.</p>

<p>One last thing, MSU is not likely to hold your space if you ask to do a gap year. That shouldn't keep you from doing a gap year, however. The public universities admit people based mainly on one's stats -- classes you've taken, gpa, and scores. Since you got in this year, you're likely to get in next year. The fact that you took a gap year won't be held against you because publics don't use such criteria in making admission decisions.</p>

<p>I know students who took a gap year after acceptance to a state u, and then had to reapply to the state u, and were admitted. </p>

<p>Unless you do something like commit a felony, you'll be accepted next year just as you were this year. </p>

<p>The gap year, however, will give you chances for acceptances to other colleges that may offer you better academic and financial options. This may even include some colleges more highly ranked than MSU.</p>

17

<p>You may want to check the list of school still accepting applications:</p>

<p><a href="http://www.nacacnet.org/MemberPortal/forstudents/2007SpaceAvailabilityResults.com%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.nacacnet.org/MemberPortal/forstudents/2007SpaceAvailabilityResults.com&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>I agree with Northstarmom, you should be able to get a better FA package somewhere.</p>

<p>If you do attend MSU, I would look into some educational organizations ect. There should be a pre-med club or something. You are going to have to find a study group. The first two years of classes you will be in alot of weedout classes. Does MSU have any orientation program for minorities. At my D's school they had a special summer program geared toward making sure minorities and 1st generation college students were sucessful.</p>

18

<p>Before applying to any of the schools still accepting applications find out about their financial aid policies particularly for late-applying and high need students like you.</p>

<p>I see that Calvin, the college that I mentioned, is on the list, and I strongly urge you to contact them as I know that they want to recruit students like you, and they have good financial aid.</p>

19

<p>My options seem limited, but I will still try to contact some schools, and see what they say in hopes of swaying my dad my way.</p>