Ex-academy Instructor Cleared at Hearing

Colleges and Universities A-Z Naval Academy - Annapolis
101

<p>The original story reported "tearful and appalled". Took it at face value. If it were my daughter, they would've reported "hissed and firing back". :) :)</p>

<p>Here's the thing....Old relics like Z and myself who've been in the fleet have seen (gasp) women behaving badly where men are concerned. I admit I am hypersensitive to this because several women officers I knew made my life as an officer MUCH worse because of their actions. That's my experience. </p>

<p>Now hang on because I am not accusing the mid in question of this....All I want to do is give the current batch of future women officers the same advice given me....don't be one of those idiots who flirt, cry, whine, or use so-called feminine whiles. And before anyone gets all hissy, those women are out there, they exist, i've had to serve with them. They are very, very much the minority, but boy do they make news and screw it up for the vast majority of the rest of us. </p>

<p>I served with dozens and dozens of talented, brilliant, hard-working, loyal, tough-minded, squared-away women. I served with a few whiny or flirty, inappropriate squirrels who infuriated me because some men would look at them to judge my gender and say, "See, this is why women don't beling in the military." I HATED being painted with that brush. THAT's what makes me nod my head when Zaphod says, "get a spine." Should know better than to believe anything a newspaper reports about the academy, though. Should've asked Wheelah for the facts from the git go. </p>

<p>In the words of Petty Officer First Class Reilly, my boot camp Company Commander, "If I find out you let some male carry your seabag, I'll hunt you down in person." Be strong-minded, have a sense of humor, handle problems on your own when at all possible, be assertive and forthright. </p>

<p>OK, now I'm done here. Z has apparently been banned and that's so completely foolish. I've enjoyed many of you. Good luck to the kids.</p>

102

<p>Spidermom:

[quote]
Here's the thing....Old relics like Z and myself who've been in the fleet have seen (gasp) women behaving badly where men are concerned.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>I can certainly vouche for this statement from my time in the Navy. For some strange reason, you don't see much of this behavior in the business world.</p>

<p>I wonder why? :rolleyes:</p>

103

<p>I did not post the question for my own edification or expecting your remorse. </p>

<p>With nearly a year of reading mean-spirited, ignorant, and uninformed posts, I have a reasonably good picture of how you wish to be portrayed to the users of this site. Now, despite attempts to obfuscate your original message of hatred by offering weak-apologies and blaming the Baltimore Sun, it is important for your admirers to see that you still believe in what you say; that you still stand by your demeaning use of the term "sweetheart"; and that you still believe, despite being told that the the BS story was essentially correct, that the mid should "get a spine."
I think that is unfortunate.</p>

<p>You don't see this behavior in the busines world [even though it occurs in smaller businesses still] because they are afraid of lawsuits. As I mentioned earlier--and was criticized for--that is how our business gets handled in America. Congress sets up laws and private attorneys enforece them. The alternative is to have a government ageny enforce such laws more vigorously.</p>

<p>Don't try to excuse Z's behavior as being attributable to "old relics." He is of an age--late 30s--that should know better. He graduated from teh Acadamy in 1991. Women had been a part of the Navy for years by that time and part of the Academy for about a dozen years. We've all been exposed to women [and minorities and white males] that didn't know how to behave; how to conduct themselves w/ others. That's life these days.</p>

104

<p>I think it's time we give this thread a rest. Long past time, actually.</p>

105

<p>who got banned??????</p>

106

<p>Apparently, the Marine JAG had quite a bit to say at the preliminary hearing. </p>

<p><a href="http://www.capitalgazette.com/cgi-bin/read/2006/01_14-40/NAV%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.capitalgazette.com/cgi-bin/read/2006/01_14-40/NAV&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>The opening paragraphs:</p>

<p>WASHINGTON -- Political pressure on Naval Academy officials has resulted in the unfair prosecution of an officer and professor for making sexually offensive comments in the presence of a female midshipman, a Marine major testified yesterday.</p>

<p>Testifying at a preliminary hearing in the case of Lt. Bryan Black, Marine JAG officer Maj. C.J. Thielemann said the academy's superintendent, Vice Adm. Rodney P. Rempt, is under heavy pressure to make the academy more welcoming for women and is looking to make an example of Lt. Black.</p>

<p>"If another admiral came in, I would have the same concerns," Maj. Thielemann testified at the Washington Navy Yard.</p>

<p>End excerpt.</p>

<p>Also from my recollection, a non-punitive letter of caution is not a permanent part of one's personnnel file. No other future command would know an officer received such a letter. The intent of the letter is to be a private communication from a commanding officer to a reporting officer detailing performance problems and necessary corrective actions. Also, fitness reports may not mention letters of caution but may mention the performance problems which initiated the letter.</p>

107

<p>^^^^^^ I was glad to see this post. Thank you.</p>

<p>While many have disagreed with the style at times, if you boil it all down to the advice, it was sound, it was sincere, and it was of value. </p>

<p>If you take issue over and above, feel you have been dissed in some way, a PM goes a long way to sort things out; that this was not done is most unfortunate.</p>

<p>I am hoping others who feel this was unnecessary will contact the site administrators and voice their concerns.</p>

108

<p>I am a little computer challenged, how does one contact the site administrator? I could just select the "report a problem post" button but wouldn't want to start the wheels to banning someone else!</p>

109

<p>To contact the site administrator, address to Roger_Dooley.... i simply double-clicked on his name, and from there just sent a message- hope that helps-</p>

110

<p>Just food for thought....</p>

<p>this is a service academy forum. While this is a huge assumption on my part, I would venture to say most of the posters and visitors to this site are academy parents and those wishing to attend. We have been graced, on occassion, by "those in the know"....students at the academies, BGO officers, admissions members and alumni.</p>

<p>We may not like what people post- but our kids are putting their lives on the line to protect their very freedom to do so.</p>

<p>Therein lies the irony.
And it is very, very sad.</p>

111

<p>^^^^ for clarification: this is intended for my fellow posters, not the moderators of cc....</p>

112

<p>So what's your point and why only for posters?</p>

113

<p>the point is to remind everyone that people are entitled to their opinions- not to take things personally- that sometimes we have to agree to disagree- and that it can be handled respectfully- and amongst the posters.</p>

<p>if someone feels they are being treated "less so," then it might serve the greater good to PM the "offender" to work things out- often times it is a matter of misunderstanding or misintepreting a comment that has been offered- IMHO, this should be done BEFORE contacting the site administrator to have someone "banned" from posting. IMHO.</p>

<p>As for not directing this to the site administrators, I just wanted to make sure my comments were directed to the posters- it was not intended as a criticism of the site or the moderators (who, by and large, have been very liberal with the site).....</p>

<p>I hope this makes my point a bit clearer to everyone.</p>

114

<p>Thanks. Your good explanation appreciated. Carry on.;)</p>

115

<p>no problem whistle pig- have a great Navy day!</p>

116

<p>Sigh. Got an email to check out this thread. I'd not seen it until yesterday. I noticed that one of the uglier post is missing today.... Hmmmmm.....Interesting....</p>

<p>Yep. I stick with underwear & merlot for a reason. I re-read post 73 & 74 twice they were so good. Reasonable readers are free to pick & choose the information they want to use or add a thought about, as Bill once said I do. Its true. And why not? Why ugly up a perfectly good day over some computer society? There's more good than bad here on these forums. I never considered Zaph to be one of the bad guys. Abrasive at times but ain't we all. There was only one guy I personally thought didn't fit in here & that was Confused. <em>evil grin</em> Others may have liked his comments. :) = Theres a smilie smile for the day.</p>

<p>I dunno guys, Navy2010 is right. If there is a problem with a poster, perhaps we can take a lesson from our kids & go up through the chain of command. Start with a pm to the person in question letting them know you're offended by something they said then go from there. I used my little button once & that was from some kid on here telling us Moms to go get ***. Now, THAT was offensive.</p>

117

<p>WOW.....haven't visited here in awhile and kinda glad that I haven't. Politics is one of those discussions that you are suppose to avoid with your "family". I know that there are several political topics that I avoid like the plague with certain very dear members of my family. That being said, much good has taken place on this site with the very best of intentions and I think that we should try to keep it that way. For most of us, we share a very strong common bond and we should continue to have a place to go and "chat" with others that share that bond in a safe environment....meaning no personal assaults. And of course, if you do not like the direction of the thread or topic.....DON'T VISIT OR COMMENT ---EVEN IN STEALTH MODE!!!!!!!!!</p>

118

<p>Jamzmom and USNAMom-</p>

<p>I could'nt agree with you more! This site was so important for my son last year in his pursuit of attending USNA. He is now Class of 2010 and when I told him what was happening on CC he was appalled. I think we all need to think of our children, the purpose of this site, and perhaps we need to grow up a little and be more tolerant of each other's opinions. And then we should politely agree to disagree rather than REPORTING people... if need be take a time out and turn off that darn computer and...</p>

<p>have a glass of merlot, a margarita (if of legal age) or a big chocolate bar (for any age)!</p>

119

<p>Isn't it interesting how different people deal with differing opinions? Some people continue to debate in an objective, non-confrontational manner; some people try to debate, but fall into ad hominim attacks, off-topic insertions, and generalizations; and finally, the most desperate and/or least competent debators try to silence the opposition.</p>

<p>Whoever pulled the plug on Zaphod ought to ask themselves why they couldn't just stand up to his assertions. If one's case really holds water, it ought to be able to prevail against anyone, including Zaphod. </p>

<p>It's ridiculous that one of our posters has been banned - I don't think ANYONE should be banned - Bring 'em on! Let's discuss things out in the open! That's the beauty of this type of forum - it's not like you're trying to discuss religion or politics around the family dinner table where feelings can get hurt & relationships suffer. This is where the truest, most unemotional debate can actually take place! Banning other posters undermines the whole process!</p>

<p>And in case you haven't noticed, this is a Service Academy forum - that means military topics are going to arise, and that means politics. I don't think we can separate the political discussion from the Service Academy discussion. They are part & parcel of one another. To try to eliminate the military & political discussion from this forum would be like the kids who get to one of the academies & then say, "I didn't know it was going to be so MILITARISTIC!" Let's not be in denial here! Our elected president is the Commander in Chief after all!</p>

<p>BTW, I'll admit that Z has "busted my chops" once or twice on this forum - I appreciated it tho' b/c it made me think a little bit more before I posted some random comment. </p>

<p>We have a saying down in Fightertown: "If you can't run with the big dogs hide under the porch!" We don't say, "If you can't run with the big dogs, get the big dogs banned!"</p>

120

<p>
[quote]
Whoever pulled the plug on Zaphod ought to ask themselves why they couldn't just stand up to his assertions. If one's case really holds water, it ought to be able to prevail against anyone, including Zaphod.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>apparently not. when the going gets tough, some go running- along with pulling all their posts. </p>

<p>Makes for very, very disjointed reading....</p>