Hi everyone! As junior year comes closer, I’d like to sort of build my college list. Early, I know, but it never hurts, right? I’m an international student looking to do something related to math or theoretical CS. I’d prefer schools that are on either coast (easier for travel reasons and I’m liberal, so culture fit!) and smaller class sizes, but medium-large student population is fine. Preferably somewhere with a strong math/CS department, but not overwhelmingly science-y (I’m more of a math and philosophy girl) and an undergrad focus.
My stats are as follows: 3.98 UW GPA, going into full IB Diploma next year. expecting a 1500+ SAT (taking in the next couple of months) and decent-ish ECs (a lot of it is focused on research, design, and debate). Will be full pay but would love merit aid, although it won’t be a deal breaker.
Right now, the list has Williams on it because it has a wonderful tutorial system + great math department, and the location is a huge plus for me (MA is one of the most beautiful places). Princeton is also there (huge, huge reach) because of the undergrad focus and it was wonderful when I visited; fell in love w/ the place pretty easily. I’ve also been considering Wellesley but I’m not sure about the women’s college environment yet.
I’d love to hear your thoughts on what schools I’d ‘fit’ at!
What about Harvey Mudd? Yes, it s very math & sciency, but my literature-loving daughter who also wanted to major in physics has loved it there. The first 3 semesters are pretty heavy core coursework, but then you have time to take some classes at the other Claremont colleges if you want to. You could do your secondary concentration in philosophy, for example.
@intparent I’m not the biggest fan of CA but it has nice weather, so I’ll take that. Outside of that though, it seems pretty great! What else did your daughter have to say about the environment at Mudd? I know they have great PhD placement (and I’d love to go to grad school), which is wonderful! In terms of ‘heavy’ coursework, how heavy would it be relative to other colleges? Is it Caltech-level heavy, where burnout is a real problem, or more manageable, yet still challenging? How’s the gender ratio at Mudd (I feel terrible for asking this, but just curious) — and has your daughter felt left out or judged by not being an engineering major at what I assume is a school with an engineering majority?
What about Canadian schools? Canada is more liberal and multicultural than the US and the cost of a degree is less. The application process is easier too. Have a look at McGill, University of Toronto, University of Waterloo and University of British Columbia.
Highly selective colleges that meet most of your stated general criteria and at which math appears as a popular major (a good starting point) include Amherst (you like Massachusetts), Bowdoin, Hamilton (https://cs.hamilton.edu/ccscne/), HMC and Pomona. You may also want to consider Reed, though I’m not sure of the status of their nascent computer science offerings. Haverford (in a bi-college relationship with the curricularly complementary Byrn Mawr) and Swarthmore would also be top options for you to explore.
Mudd has about a 50/50 gender ratio (one thing my D liked). Now the workload – it is crazy. CalTech heavy. But Mudd is also a collaborative place, not a competitive place. No problems for my kid at all as a non-engineering major. I don’t sense that there is any disrespect between students in different majors.
There are tons of opportunities for research (my kid researched on campus every summer, and has a summer position this summer after graduating and prior to starting grad school). She has good friends and great faculty mentors. GPAs can be lower, but grad schools (except for med schools) seem to know that and Mudders have very good grad school and employment placement.
Don’t know if you will be able to visit schools in the US, but most Mudders know when they visit that they’ve found their tribe.
@merc81 I’ll be finished with Math HL and Further Math HL by the time I go to college. This includes Linear Algebra, Discrete Math, most (if not all) of single-variable Calculus with a bit of Multivariable, as well as a few ‘extension’ topics in Statistics and Set Theory.
Amherst sounds great, but it does seem a bit overshadowed by Williams in terms of LACs with strong STEM departments. Care to share more about the differences between the two? They’re equally selective too, from what I gather, which is a bit of a turnoff, since I really want to try and apply to more match/safety schools – otherwise it would definitely be on my list!
I like that Mudd is very collaborative (one of the deal breakers in my college search!) and the Claremont consortium is a huge plus – just not sure about its 1. selectivity and 2. rigor (it seems pretty intense if it is on par, if not more rigorous, than Caltech). Also nice to hear that students in different majors aren’t in any way treated differently. Might be able to visit Mudd next summer, although I’m not counting on it. @intparent
@bouders Canada looks great; I’ve been looking into it for a bit now, but I’m afraid my parents want me to stick to the US, since we’re more familiar with it and have lots of relatives in the bigger cities. I’ve heard great things about Waterloo and UBC though, and might apply to that if time permits. My biggest concern with Canadian schools are the class sizes and emphasis on undergrad teaching; I haven’t seen schools with this sort of focus (like a liberal-artsy school) but still with a strong math department.
Any schools you would recommend visiting to see if it’ll be a great fit? I’ll be on the East Coast and may be able to squeeze in college visits on certain weekends, provided they aren’t too far away from NJ/MA! Currently have Wellesley, CMU, Williams, Amherst on my list.
@intparent Fair point. Since my school will only allow 10 applications (worldwide) for each student, I’ll have to decide between Amherst, Williams and/or Mudd (by taking off a few other schools from my list) since I don’t want a reach-heavy list at all – some risks I’d rather not take! Do you reckon that being a female applicant would increase my chances at Mudd at all? Is this the case at most tech-bent schools?
Yes, it will increase your chances at Mudd & probably other tech schools as well. Although Mudd has a stronger commitment to being close to a 50/50 gender ratio than other tech schools as far as I know.
That sounds great! So would I say, have a higher chance at a school like Mudd/CMU (Math), which have less female applicants but a similar acceptance rate to Amherst and Williams? @intparent
You can look at the Common Data Set for each school to see acceptance rate by gender. (Google it). Although I don’t know if you can see CMU clearly at that level, and I also don’t know their admission policies. If you apply to Mudd, research them carefully. They are really looking for fit and students who understand their culture/environment.
Though, with linear algebra, a proof-based topic, you will have entered the typical “gateway” into a college mathematics curriculum, you will nonetheless have ample courses from which to choose at LACs with strong math departments. It’s possible you would begin your studies with multi-variable calculus, a course commonly taken by first-year students. Set theory may appear within computer science offerings, so you will have a sound foundation there as well. Courses within physics departments, such as mathematical physics and general relativity would likely prove of interest to you. Going further forward, a semester in Budapest would be an option with which to complement your LAC studies.
This thread discusses admission with respect to gender:
Although it would be misleading to strongly correlate popularity with department quality, note that of the five most popular majors at Williams, one, biology, registers as STEM. Amherst reports one STEM in the top five as well, but in your field of interest, mathematics. (Economics is the most popular major at both schools, at 17% and 15%, respectively.)
In terms of my own East Coast recommendations, I’d suggest you see at least four schools post from post #5, which span selectivity ranges up to about that of Wellesley:
Consider looking in course catalogs and schedules for advanced math and CS courses like
Abstract algebra
Number theory
Cryptography
Algorithms and complexity theory
Theory of computation, languages, and automata
Combinatorics and graph theory
Computational geometry
Numerical analysis
Logic and set theory
Thank you, @ucbalumnus ! I’ve started looking into these course offerings – would it be best if they offer these courses every semester/quarter, or would once a year be enough? How would you gauge the strength of the department by its course offerings?
@merc81 Those sound really cool, thanks! Would you then, recommend Amherst more than Williams simply because math is a more popular major at the former? Although popularity isn’t a good determinant of quality, would you think that more students flock towards departments of ‘good’ quality? I understand fit is an important variable in this all, but all else being equal, would you use popularity as a benefit or a negative?
At LACs, would a math major be more beneficial compared to a CS degree? I’m trying to decide between these two majors (or do some sort of joint/double major) – I guess the biggest selling point for a CS degree is the employability, in case I don’t want to go grad school (although that option seems most likely IMO)
Obviously, the more frequently a given course is offered, the more flexibility you have choosing when to take it (and with which instructor, if there are more than one who teach the course). However, you should expect smaller departments to have some courses taught by only one specific faculty member in whose specialty the course is, and as infrequently as once every two years (which gives most students one chance to take an advanced level course over their junior and senior years, though students who come in advanced may be ready for them in soph or even frosh year, giving them extra chances).
Be careful of courses listed in the catalog that appear to be offered even less frequently, in which case you may not be able to take them at all.
If you are concerned about class sizes, you can see if the on-line class schedules list class sizes. More advanced math courses are commonly taught in small class sizes even at large schools. The rapid rise in the popularity of CS means that CS courses (particularly lower level ones) can be surprisingly large even at small schools.
This is not LAC-specific, but it is possible to major in math while taking some CS electives. A math or other liberal arts major typically consumes about 1/3 to 1/2 of your course work, leaving room for both general education requirements and free electives that you can use for CS courses that will help prepare you for industry jobs in computers if you choose not to go on to graduate study (presumably in math or theoretical CS – obviously, if your graduate area is theoretical CS or a math area closely related to CS, you do want enough CS foundational background as well).
For a popular and strong math department in a curricularly balanced LAC, take a close look at Hamilton. Their beautiful campus near a quaint village should appeal to you as well. Pay particular attention to the Taylor Science Center, home of their computer science department, and Christian Johnson Hall, home of their math department.
What about schools on the likely-safety side? A lot of these LACs are great, but what about schools that are easier to get into, or somewhere that I’d receive good merit aid at? Would love your input!
