With the Ivy League having such a strong brand, a sports league, and sometimes coordinating on academic and research issues , why wouldn’t it make sense for the Ivy League to consider adding a couple more schools. Perhaps MIT, Johns Hopkins, or University of Chicago? Northwestern or Duke could be candidates, but their sports programs are more different, so that could be a barrier.
It could provide the added scale to make a TV channel with sports and other interesting programming like the Big Ten does. The larger conference could also raise public awareness about the substance of the Ivy League beyond “elite/top colleges” and allow those schools to mold a more positive image and understanding of the good they do. Most Americans don’t seem to know which colleges are in the Ivy League, what they contribute to the country, where they are, or really anything about them.
It seems to me that adding two schools could be a win for all 10 schools in increasing the scale, expanding the geography, and improving public awareness about all of the schools, and strengthening the brand.
Many of the schools you mention are not really interested in athletics. Northwestern is already a member of the Big 10. It would be demeaning for Duke to stoop to the level of Ivy League basketball.
The Ivy League is a historic conference where sports is not the top priority so is unlikely to get caught up in the realignments that have been going on in college sports. And in all honesty, I don’t think the “Ivy brand” needs to be “strengthened”
I went to Penn and am a fan of Ivy athletics – but the truth is that Ivy sports are not at the level of college sports that are typically televised Adding more schools to the roster won’t change that. Plus, why would schools like Duke, Northwestern etc. want to significantly scale down their sports programs (that are a big draw for some students)? And why would other schools like UChicago want to spend money to ramp up their athletic departments? I do think that knowledgeable people understand that there are schools which are the academic equivalents of the Ivy League.
Currently the Ivy schools are bemoaning the lack of student interest in the sports programs. Expanding the league is not going to happen. And which school needs more exposure?
@happy1 I agree that I doubt Northwestern or Duke would be interested.
That is why I suggested adding a couple schools from the University of Chicago, MIT and Johns Hopkins group.
For example, Chicago and Hopkins would expand the geographic range, and increase the scale of the schools in the group. That would seem to be positive for the Ivy League in general, while maintaining the quality of the group.
@Ollie1113 “And which school needs more exposure?”
I think the percent of Americans who can name 1/2 of the schools in the Ivy League is about 2%. It is a very low number. Most people have no exposure to them.
Hopkins, MIT and Chicago are DIII, so it would not be an easy transition. They have to petition to change divisions, add sports if necessary (there is a minimum number of sports for each division), have 2-3 year trial, change recruiting rules.
But what would be the benefit to the Ivy League, either as a sports league or as an academic group? As a sports group, they don’t need any more teams. It works out well to play the other 7 schools and then have room in their schedules for a few out of conference games. As an academic group, would it make any difference to anyone to say ‘the 10 schools of the Ivy league have…’ than it currently is of saying ‘the 8 schools of the Ivy league…’?
I don’t see it happening:
–I don’t think schools like Chicago, Hopkins, MIT would want to invest the time, energy, and money that woudl be needed to bring all of their sports programs up to the level of Ivy athletics.
–I don’t think the Ivy League has any need or desire to expand. Again it is a historic league.
–I don’t think there is any benefit at all to the league expanding.
–Adding to the group won’t change the quality of the athletics (unless you are also suggesting drastically changing Ivy sports programs) and won’t get them more visibility in that area.
In addition, I think having diversity among the top schools is a positive thing – I know many people who have attended non-Ivy top shelf schools and love them just the way they are. I have not once heard friends I know who went to MIT, UChicago, and Hopkins say that they wish the schools would expand and spend more money on their athletic teams, and other friends who attended Duke and ND (including my H and S) love having big time sports as part of their school experience. IMO it is a good thing that people can consider what they want in their college and seek out schools that are good matches.
@happy1 “And why would other schools like UChicago want to spend money to ramp up their athletic departments?”
I don’t think it would be a huge investment given that they are currently in the UAA. Being a member of this group of schools has value to all of the members. I also think the alumni would like a little better sports. It may also enhance communication on research etc.
Why not?
@gearmom MIT could benefit because the location is convenient, it may improve its sports programs, enhance coordination on research, and if there were a TV channel (Like the Big Ten channel), it could provide a convenient platform for the school to showcase itself and its contributions to the country.
There is a big difference between DIII and Ivy level sports. Also see post #8. Quite honestly I think the DIII schools are happy where they are… See what others think but no need to tag me further on this post.
@Much2learn MIT doesn’t need any of that. It’s already top dog. Ivy league is an historic classification (even though many are moonbat obsessed with it). That’s like asking can we reclassify New England to include New Jersey. New Jersey would get more mileage with the New England brand. If you expand the Ivy League, you’d change it’s exclusive branding. Then even more kids could strut about with Ivy league branding on their jeans back pocket and that devalues the brand. MIT, Stanford, Berkeley are already serious and respected institutes of learning. They don’t need to buy into the Ivy obsession.
@twoinanddone “But what would be the benefit to the Ivy League, either as a sports league or as an academic group? As a sports group, they don’t need any more teams. It works out well to play the other 7 schools and then have room in their schedules for a few out of conference games. As an academic group, would it make any difference to anyone to say ‘the 10 schools of the Ivy league have…’ than it currently is of saying ‘the 8 schools of the Ivy league…’?”
This is the key question.
Elite sports schools have been consolidating nationally. That raises the profile of the in-group members geographically, and makes things like Big Ten TV more affordable that further raise the profile of members.
As technology eventually comes to play an increasing role in education and the educational process slowly evolves, there will be a consolidation in higher education too. Increasing the scale, brand familiarity, public familiarity with the schools, and the good they do for the country, would benefit the entire group. It would enhance their ability to exchange information, attract top students and top professors, to adapt and drive positive change together as the world evolves.
Without showing top level college sports, the Big 10 network doesn’t exist. The Ivy League will never be about top level college sports. So the comparison isn’t valid. And there is nothing the non-Ivy league schools you listed need to do to get better recognition. All are top schools. People who do not know of them likely will never go to one of them.
I think JHU lacrosse is in DI and a perennially powerhouse and has won quite many NCAA championships. It runs separately from its school’s other spots’ league/division, very similar to Notre Dame’s football, which doesn’t belong to any league, but the rest of the school’s spots are in ACC.
No one at MIT is going to want to change that student population in order to compete at a different sports level. That’s not who MIT is. MIT is academic boot camp for the gifted not Well Rounded U. I think the real reason for suggesting expanding the Ivy League is so that more people can get social mileage from the status. But when Louis Vuitton starts selling bags at Walmart, when it loses it’s exclusivity, it loses it’s value. Half the kids on here have probably never visited an Ivy League school but they know they want to go to one because their friends will be impressed.
