Expectations for comp majors?

College Majors Music Major
1

<p>The school
website just tells to have:
somewhat piano skills
/composition skillsusic theory. </p>

<p>I have emailed the chairman of comp dept of the school im applying to, and he just told me that most undergrad kids come
from no compositional
experience. And i have no compositional
experience but except that i have naturally learned from playing classical piano pieces and sometimes analyzing with my teacher (I lack theories)</p>

<p>I have submitted
a septet for 2 clarinets, flute, 2 violins, bassoon, cello
a piano suite
and a piano piece for dance. </p>

<p>I have recorded the piano songs by myself, but not the septet...
My school teacher told me that my compositions were good, but it is really hard to trust school music theory teachers. </p>

<p>Im just wondering that how
many comp majors are selected every year, and how good do you have to be (ex: you should at least be making a symphony).</p>

2

<p>Expectations for composition majors will vary with the program - just as they would for performance majors. Some schools will be more selective than others and expect a higher level of achievement from the applicants. And for others, that won’t be as important. If the head of the department of the school you’re applying to told you most of the undergrads have no experience, I would believe him.</p>

3

<p>What school?</p>

<p>I read on some forum that a school receives thousands and accepts only 8 undergrad students. I’m not sure if it’s true, but this worries me.</p>

<p>I’m also a prospective undergrad for composition. I haven’t had theory classes either but I’m taking composition lessons that I started last month. I’m always asking her how I’d fare against other applicants, haha. She’s reassuring, though.</p>

<p>I’d also like to know any elaborations on this subject. There’s another thread similar to this but it wasn’t really thorough.</p>

<p>In terms of prescreening scores, Peabody wants variety in media. My composition teacher told me to write a solo/duet and a bigger piece (string orchestra, full orchestra, etc.) with the time we had. Most of the top schools require three scores, maximum of four. UMich is maximum of 7.</p>

4

<p>A program that wants to end up with 8 freshman will probably admit 15 students. There are many selective programs which admit no more than 3-5, and some even fewer. For both posters - if you’ve composed so little and had so little experience, how are you so certain that is what you wish to major in in college? I would recommend going for a more general music (or other) degree and feeling the waters, as it were. You can always, and in fact, should get a graduate degree in composition.</p>

5

<p>Sorry I wasn’t clear. I’ve been composing since I was 10, fiddling around with finale and learning through self-study from that point on. I didn’t take professional lessons up until now, though. I just needed some one-on-one guidance from an actual composer for college and these weekly lessons aren’t cheap.</p>

<p>I guess I wasn’t sure for the longest time whether I wanted to pursue music, period. But I spend all of my time practicing my instruments, composing and nearly all of my activities surround it. I’m very passionate about what I do and I’m very confident in my choice of major.</p>

6

<p>Shinster - if you haven’t started a large ensemble piece yet and you plan to submit one in the next few weeks, I wouldn’t advise you to do it. You want to present your best work - not something you rushed out to meet the deadline. Perhaps you could write something contrasting by writing a short smaller ensemble piece for unusual (or different from your usual) instrumentation? I’m sure you’ve noticed in the composition threads in this forum that we composition parents are always recommending submitting at least one live recording. Do you have anything, or can you get something rehearsed and performed in the next weeks? I believe some of the deadlines have already passed - but, if not for the programs you’re considering, I’m sure the deadlines are looming.</p>

7

<p>I’m most comfortable with string orchestration. I have a solid string orchestra piece that I started back in spring and finished after my composition teacher reviewed it. It’s about 9 minutes long. I wrote it in dedication to my cello teacher who’s also the orchestra director of a local high school. They’re performing this in January. I didn’t specify that there’s a performance date on any of my applications which I regret.</p>

<p>I also wrote another string orchestra piece which contrasts in style. About 5 minutes long. Doesn’t show variety in media since I have two string orchestra pieces that I submitted.</p>

<p>I wrote a short (3 minutes) piano and flute piece. I incorporated graphic notation. It’s more “modern sounding” than my string pieces. I’m having this recorded next Sunday.</p>

<p>My question is this: Should I send in the recording of the flute and piano once I get it with midi realizations of the other two and specify that there’s a performance date? Would the schools review this? All I did was submit my scores.
I guess I can just call tomorrow. Just wondering if you had similar experiences.</p>

8

<p>Are you saying you missed the deadline to include the recordings (midi or otherwise) with your submission? My son did submit a recording of a piece that was performed in February (at the request of the department) after the score had been originally submitted. (But he also had live recordings of all but one of his other submissions.) He was told the composition professors wouldn’t get around to reviewing the portfolios until after then at that school anyway. So you could quite possibly send in a subsequent recording of the orchestra piece you submitted. It’s a pity though that you didn’t get the flute/piano piece recorded in time to submit with your application.</p>

9

<p>I didn’t get a chance to send in any recordings, no. They didn’t require them, but I’d like to send them in. For some reason, I had the idea that a midi realization wouldn’t be professional and that it would hurt me. I use Sibelius and it actually plays a couple of notes incorrectly. Better than nothing, I guess. I’ll call them tomorrow and see if they’ll work with me. Thanks, SpiritManager.</p>

10

<p>Shinster//
I read that conservatories do not accept midi files as recrdings.
I also use sibelius, but i hear wrong notes as well as wrong rhythm. Thats why I never play sibelius to hear what I wrote, if you have a perfect or at least a relative pitch, it is a waaaaay better to just put down the notes on to the program without listening.
(listening to sibelius makes me sick. )</p>

11

<p>shinster//smilemask10 Ref: MIDI/Sibelius</p>

<p>You guys are doing something wrong. Or on a very old version of Sibelius. With v5 and latest v6 the playback and export of audio is excellent, and if your music has good dynamics written in, can be very expressive too. Never heard a wrong note, unless it was there for real in the score!</p>

<p>With Sibelius and GPO4 and/or EastWest virtual instruments you can even get recordings that some conservatories will listen to. Not true to say that conservatories do not accept MIDI scores. Some do. Depends on the place itself, but yes, real life performances are the norm. But Curtis told my boy they would be interested to hear an orchestral MIDI film score in addition to live recordings submitted. We are not gonna hire an orchestra for a piece, so a good quality MIDI recording makes sense, and sensible admissions folk know that. Many big-budget film scores now are computer MIDI / virtual sound driven with some real musicians thrown in to make it sound really really good. No need for a full-blown orchestra in many cases.</p>

12

<p>I am a little confused about the type of school the original poster is applying to. Mention of a “composition department” seems to indicate a conservatory. But conservatories do tend to have a 12/1 deadline and require both scores and recordings (yes, some allow MIDI but performed versions are better, and they should not all be MIDI). So, smilemask, are you applying to conservatories?</p>

<p>I don’t know, but is seems possible to me that both smilemask and shinster are very modest people and may be more proficient in composing than they are indicating, but haven’t had access to a wider composition world in which they can assess their work with any perspective. The application process, whether to conservatory or college, is often the first time composition applicants get that kind of evaluation versus others who are also composing. So it is a little nerve-wracking.</p>

<p>If this were last year, many of us would be recommending a summer program, theory classes in the fall, and more private composition lessons (which can be monthly or even less often, if you write on your own and then meet when there is enough work to meet about). Many of us also might have suggested entering work in a state music teacher’s composition competition, or ASCAP, or some other way to start putting your music out there.</p>

<p>But there are many composition applicants who don’t do these things, who do fine,and there can be people with obvious potential (“diamonds in the rough”) that schools will pick up on. It’s all about the music, just as the audition is the thing for instrumentalists.</p>

<p>Overall, I disagree that most applicants for freshman year at a conservatory have little composition experience. Most students who end up at the conservatories have quite a bit of experience. Their experience does not always stretch back years, the way an instrumentalist’s would, and often people do start composing at an older age. But if someone is applying to major in composition, I think most have spent at least a couple of years composing and have some real depth to what they are doing.</p>

<p>Shinster, writing a couple of orchestral pieces is pretty impressive. Writing an orchestral piece that is 9 minutes long is quite a bit of work. Orchestral pieces do pose a special problem in terms of getting a recording (hard to hire an orchestra!), unless someone goes to a high school with a stellar music department.</p>

<p>I wonder if you could send MIDI/Sibelius versions (and you don’t have to listen to them!) as a temporary measure and then supply schools with a recording of the performance. January should be soon enough for that, I would think. Composition interviews are usually late Feb. or early March.</p>

<p>I am still surprised that schools allowed you to send scores only…but adding CD’s, even if late, would probably help.</p>

<p>Some schools have exams in music theory and history. These are generally for placement purposes, so don’t get too thrown.</p>

13

<p>compmom has provided a very thorough and thoughtful overview, and it leads me to wonder if perhaps she, SpiritMananger, RichardHK, stephmin, and a few others could be persuaded to start a new thread along the lines of BassDad’s essential “One Family’s Experience” post. I think the study of composition is too rarely understood, and the process by which people apply to and get accepted to a conservatory still has some mystery about it. </p>

<p>If you hear of a pianist applying to a conservatory and she says she started playing at age 5, you have some idea of what’s going on. If a pianist says they started at 16 and are applying to a conservatory, your eyebrows go up.</p>

<p>But how does this relate to composition? Where, when, and how does the “spark” manifest itself? What kinds of backgrounds do the composers have that get in to prominent conservatories or those Ivies and LACs with reputations for composition? compmom is absolutely right–as it’s such a solitary endeavor, so many aspiring composers have little idea of what to expect. And there are some who don’t start writing until age 16, and yet they aspire to attend the same school as the pianist starting at age 5. And–what’s more, it’s not inconceivable for said composer to get in to the same school! Or is it? What kinds of programs expect someone to be a very experienced composer, and what kinds of programs accept many late bloomers? </p>

<p>There’s no All-State for them, no Stulberg or Fischoff. With NFAA it’s already too late. Many times a young composer knows no other composers his/her age. There’s so little context, relative to performers on instruments or singers. (Perhaps you could tell us more about BMI/ASCAP, or other opportunities for JHS and HS students?)</p>

<p>What choices are made? What paths are pursued? Please do tell!</p>

14

<p>N8Ma,</p>

<p>Interesting that you should bring up the issue of opportunities for young composers. I am a member of a local chorus that has tried to fill part of that gap, at least for local high school students composing choral music. We have run a composition contest for the last twelve years. It is judged by a panel of professional composers, choral directors and music educators who provide detailed feedback to every participant, not just the winners. We also give each participant the opportunity to attend a composition workshop run by some of the judges along with another member of the chorus who happens to have a degree in composition from a well-known conservatory. </p>

<p>Winners receive cash prizes, publicity in area newspapers, and a recording of what usually turns out to be a good public performance of their composition. Those winners who are not already seniors (and there have been several) are frequently able to use this recording as part of their college application package. At least two past participants are currently working as professional composers and several are attending or have graduated from composition or performance programs at colleges including Juilliard, the Peabody/Hopkins double degree program, Boston University, Ithaca College, Smith College and Butler University.</p>

<p>My favorite part is getting to watch the faces of the young composers the first time they get to hear their works performed by a very good 90-voice chorus in rehearsal, and then again at the first performance in front of an audience.</p>

<p>This particular contest is only open to New Jersey high school students - public, private or home schooled. I invite anyone who wants more details (particularly those who might be interested in entering the contest or in starting up something similar) to send me a PM.</p>

15

<p>N8Ma’s idea is great, I think. I’d be happy to add in our experience though it is far from typical and by no means a sure path into a conservatory. It may, however, give hope to those who are following a less conventional path but still aspire to conservatory study. </p>

<p>DS is studying composition at NEC (as well as environmental studies at Tufts) though he had no previous formal composition study. He submitted scores only with his app, NO midi files or live performances. He began his first instrument (violin) at 10, took one college level music theory class at 11 and began composing the following year. Despite the late start, he packed quite a bit of musical experience into the 7 years leading up to his acceptance at NEC including youth orchestras, chamber music, NC Governor’s School, a summer festival, and gigs including subbing for a professional orchestra. He also won a national composition award (ASTA’s Merle J. Isaac Composition Competition -Jr. Division) and a couple of local music awards. In addition to his formal composition major at NEC, he is studying violin with Nicholas Kitchen at NEC, playing in the Tufts orchestra and studying conducting under Gil Rose (of the Boston Modern Orchestra Project) and playing in an NEC chamber group with other double degree students. </p>

<p>He submitted applications for violin performance, composition and in a couple of instances both. He applied to conservatories, universities and university based schools of music. He was accepted to 7 of the 9 programs to which he applied.</p>