<p>My son (junior) is interested in majoring in Composition. All the programs we are looking at require submission of a portfolio of compositions. What are they looking for from high school students in these compositions, in terms of level? I am not sure what he needs to prepare for this. (Fortunately starting research before the last minute, because I didn't realize you were already expected to be a composer before starting study. New world for non-music parent!) (He will have had intro music theory, 2 years in orchestra (cello), and guitar, but so far nothing formal in Composition.) We are looking at summer composition camps, but most of them require portfolios to enter. He is writing music, but I don't have any sense of at what level it needs to be. Help anyone? Thanks.</p>
<p>I recommend that you have him start taking weekly private theory and composition lessons with a composer. You would find the teacher the same way you would find any high level music teacher in your region.</p>
<p>He should also compose pieces he is able to get performed so that he will start to get a sense of what works and what doesn't. Usually beginning composers start with their musician friends or their youth or school chamber groups. He should also go to lots and lots of concerts, and listen to everything he can get ahold of. And start reading scores.</p>
<p>If he has pieces he's proud of, he can submit them to national, as well as local, competitions. He can join an organization like American Music Center which sends out a monthly list of competitions and calls for scores.</p>
<p>The summer camp idea is a good one. There have been discussions on this forum of non-competitive summer programs for composition which would probably be the best way to start.</p>
<p>And he should explore the philosophies and music of the composition professors at the collleges he's interested in applying to.</p>
<p>Hi Krsiii....your right....Composition is not like being a pianist or a performer...i mean it's very difficult to start studying composition lets say at 14-15 years old...even Stravinsky started around 20...(anyway he did quite well eheh!)
If he really wants to get in a school now i think there are several schools (liberal arts) that don't require a potfolio of compositions...you should do some research in this forum to find some "safer" schools....
My personal suggestion would be taking 1 or 2 years of private lessons just to be more prepared and listening to several composers...to understand specifically what does he want to do...i mean if he wants to write film music i think he should avoid places like Julliard, MSM ...or, if he is interested in composers like Cage, Glass ecc he should look at places like Oberlin...
I'm 23 from Italy and studied privately composition a couple of years ...I applied to 4-5 Music schools (including boston Cons, Peabody, Longy)...but believe me i'm VERY scared that no one will accept me ....especially after hearing that Boston Conservatory accepts ONLY 4 compositions students every year (and they recieve 1700 applications), Peabody around 10 - 15 (and recieve even more applications) ecc..........I'm already preparing my stuff to apply in a Conservatory here in Italy :(
So this is what i know, i'm sure a lot of people here can give you more details about good schools that are not so selective...
Hope this helps
Francesco (sorry 4 my english)</p>
<p>Thanks very much for your replies, SpiritManager and Francesco. They were very helpful. We're going to arrange composition lessons, and we found a summer camp that looks like it would be helpful, which includes information about entering college programs in composition, and is at a college he is considering. He will also be taking music theory at community college during his senior year. Francesco, I hope your search goes well and that you get into a program you are interested in. Buona fortuna!</p>
<p>Thanks :) buona fortuna to your son too !!! i would proud if i had a son interested in a such beautiful thing!! keep us updated :)</p>
<p>New York Summer Music Festival has a composition program. It is located in Oneonta, NY and is reasonably priced. It is a portfolio program, but I don't think its standards are very exacting. Probably as long as he's done some work, it will be okay. He will also have to submit a tape of his cello playing, but in the performance part of the program the standards are not exacting.</p>
<p>My S did this program for two years and had three really beautiful compositions to submit at time of application to colleges. One, the first movement of a string quartet, was played by the faculty at the summer music festival, so along with the score he had a very professional recording of his music. David Ludwig runs the composition program and he teaches at Curtis. Can't have better credentials than that.</p>
<p>DS did get accepted into his first choice school, not a conservatory because he wants a well rounded liberal arts education. However, the music major at most schools includes a composition strand. He chose a LAC which did not require an audition, although he did submit three CD's: one of his piano playing, one of his violin playing, and one of his compositions.</p>
<p>Mythmom: Thanks for the tip on NY Summer Music Festival. I'll take a look.
I did find that a few schools on S's (still long) list of interest either don't requrire portfolios for entrance, or go through qualification period after one or two years of their music program. Either way I think the summer programs will be a great help.
I'm glad your son got in his first-choice school!</p>
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<p>Apologies for dragging this thread back from the past. But quite good info here.</p>
<p>A query on Francesco’s comment above, that went without comment at the time. My boy is keen on film music composition, and we see Juilliard and MSM as more than suitable to give him a strong background for the future. Didn’t harm John Williams or Philip Glass, for example. :)</p>
<p>My boy is already competent on both piano performance and music theory, so Juilliard/MSM/NEC/similar are natural choices for delving into composition. He has been slogging away now for a few months composing and getting good results and comments from a UK summer school he attended. (Chethams)</p>
<p>Am we right here? Or missing something?</p>
<p>PS. We attended a public composition master class at MSM earlier this year and were more than happy with the school, the event, and the students performed works. And MSM had one of the best equipped electronic music composition classrooms we have seen anywhere. Small (one room) but fully-equipped and functional. NEC was excellent too. To us, electronic music = film music. :)</p>
<p>An amazing summer program is the Walden School in Dublin NH. Just wrote about it in another thread. [Summer</a> Music Camp and Summer Music Festival: The Walden School](<a href=“http://www.waldenschool.org%5DSummer”>http://www.waldenschool.org)</p>
<p>Our daughter began composing as a junior in high school, found a mentor at a local university, went to Walden that summer, and applied to top conservatories and colleges with very good results. She also did theory both jr. and senior years and music history senior year at a conservatory prep program in the city near us. She plays classical guitar, which was not relevant to her composing at all.</p>
<p>Recording compositions and having them played by musicians who are really good, makes a big difference. Summer programs can provide CD’s of works that can be used for applications, and if you find a mentor who is affiliated with a university nearby, sometimes they will help get your music played and recorded. It can even be worth it to hire musicians, believe it or not, at least for one good piece. Many schools also take MIDI recordings. Some like to see at least one handwritten score.</p>
<p>Your son can send music to things like ASCAP’s Morton Gould Young Composers competition, or to your state Music Teacher’s organizations, if he likes to do thinks competitively.</p>
<p>Generally speaking, I am not sure why anyone would apply to major in composition if they aren’t already composing. A lot of times it seems that composing is a little bit of a compulsion, meaning, those who are really involved in composing don’t seem to have any choice. Or, at the very least, it is an important expression of themselves.</p>
<p>But it is clear from many stories I have heard that a student doesn’t have to have years of experience or anything, to apply for composition, and do well in that process. It all comes down to the music itself that is in the portfolio, just as instrumentalists’ auditions come down to the music. Or, as someone said, he can apply to colleges that have good music departments, but no auditions, and really enjoy composing then.</p>
<p>Thanks compmom,</p>
<p>We will chase up the competitions as suggested. S has just got back to his MA boarding school for his senior year. College applications this year of course, and his school will be helping with real musicians to record his best pieces. And he has a set composition class each week with his music teacher who is a Hartt School composition grad (I think). Several more compositions are being done with MIDI by yours truly as I am the one keen on MIDI orchestration! I will also replicate his best pieces on MIDI too and see how it compares to the real musos. :)</p>
<p>Good to hear your stories about students not needing years of experience. Can understand reasoning for this, as my S has been busy on piano performance for years with not much chance for anything else. Still struggling to keep him playing piano which is frustrating as he is so close to second UK ABRSM diploma level and he is not that bothered to complete it.</p>
<p>We support his composition though. He turns out quite complex stuff very quickly and keeps me very busy trying to get my computer system to play them. He composes in his head and writes straight into his Sibelius notation program without playing. I am hoping to grab some local commercial work and will expect him to turnaround short jingle compositions overnight for me to finish off. Haa…</p>
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<p>Hello All,</p>
<p>Back again on same thread to add to Composition application issues! Ref my own comment quote above, I have now been told that my boy’s compositions are too complex to be played and recorded in time by his school players. Not just the complexity, but also the range of instruments that his works demand. :(</p>
<p>Being asked if I would support hiring of local pro/semipro musicians to make a couple of pieces. Sounds very expensive to me, although school would check costs before going forward.</p>
<p>Looking at Juilliard, MSM, and NEC, it seems that only MSM insist on a recording for one piece only (out of three scores - and definitely no MIDI allowed). Julliard recommend a recording, but not essential. NEC not needed.</p>
<p>Any comments on best approach? Any cost guidance/experience for 2x 5 minute pieces done by pro musicians? (Perhaps 1x 5mins enough, still checking his other choices.)</p>
<p>Thanks again for any help. Entering the applications fray for 2010 entry.</p>
<p>I recommend that you hire the musicians. It will be worth it in merit money at the other end of the process. Even with professionals, though, be warned that if it is difficult you will need to pay for the multiple rehearsal sessions. The issue that the work he is writing is too hard to play is very important. That is one of the first lessons of a young composer - they have to either be able to write music that is playable by the musicians they have on hand, or they have to resign themselves to not hearing the music live. It is also quite possible that your son, being new to this, doesn’t yet realize what is or is not hard to play. That is one of the great advantages to composition at music camps, programs, and ultimately college - that he will get to hear his music played - he will learn immense amounts just from that.</p>
<p>You said earlier that he writes quickly. Could he write a simpler piece for fewer instruments knowing it would be played by the students at the school? If so, he could send in a recording of that, and then midis of the more complex works. Just because it’s simpler does not mean it has to be dull or naive nor reflective of his voice.</p>
<p>Thanks for your well written reply. Makes absolute sense and I will take your recommendation and go forward with hiring of musicians. His school teacher also told me that having real musicians (hired or school) play his pieces will be a real eye-opener, as S works exclusively inside his own head and with his Sibelius software!</p>
<p>And he certainly does score stuff that is unplayable now and again. His 2 week UK composition course helped a little but was not long enough for others to practice and play his work. Primarily a piano school.</p>
<p>His school teacher will task some school musicians with parts of his works to accompany his composition classes. Have conveyed your point about rescoring/scoring a suitable extended piece for this.</p>
<p>Thanks again for your valuable comments.</p>
<p>For applications, our daughter’s pieces were all played by professionals or semi-professionals. In one case, a clarinet trio played for minimal cost, in one case it was the Walden summer program guest musicians, in one case, we payed out of pocket for a string quartet that is fairly well-known, that was playing pieces for students of her teacher, and in the last case, the clarinet trio kindly gave her a commission (very nice of them, and very encouraging for her) !</p>
<p>I absolutely agree that this can make a difference in merit money and, possibly even admissions.</p>
<p>Working with professionals is a great learning experience.</p>
<p>And yes, it can be expensive. </p>
<p>The issue of playability is an interesting one. Your son can learn more about this by having really good musicians play his music. It is one thing for high school musicians to find the music hard, but another if the professionals do. In the latter case, the composer needs to make some changes in process, and can learn a lot from the rehearsals.</p>
<p>Our daughter wrote some of her pieces for her high school chamber music class, in her last 2 years of high school, and made them simpler, as someone suggested. (As it happens, they still found it difficult, but did not rehearse enough to really get it). But she would never, ever have submitted those pieces to the conservatories or colleges where she applied.</p>
<p>Her real work was more complex, like your son’s, and she never would have considered having the high school musicians play them (our high school music program is not great). So the only choice was to hire, for most of her pieces. The version played on the computer by Finale or Sibelius doesn’t really convey the music anywhere near what real musicians can do. It just isn’t fair to the music.</p>
<p>This problem continues by the way. Right now, she has almost an hour’s work of music that she has to get played and recorded somehow. That’s a lot of rehearsing to pay for, too. </p>
<p>She is at college, and is trying to have a concert with musicians from her college playing her pieces, but I think we will still help her pay for professionals to play them, so that the music is really played as it should be played.</p>
<p>We are not wealthy at all. This can be a hardship, but to be honest, I would give up a lot to get her music played properly. And eventually, I think our kids can get their money back through merit aid, awards, commissions and so on.</p>
<p>The question of a college composer getting their pieces performed is one that an applicant should be considering in choice of schools. This was probably second most to the teacher on my son’s priority list. Not only if the pieces will be performed but by whom and with how much rehearsal and care? This was one reason my son did not take the path of compmom’s daughter and ruled out many wonderful academic schools which did not have a strong performance based music school. </p>
<p>As for the expense of hiring the musicians - I certainly would not recommend hiring an orchestra (unless in Eastern Europe at a bargain) - five musicians max, I would say - since as mentioned before, if the work is difficult, if it is to be performed properly, a number of rehearsals will be required, all of which must be paid for.</p>
<p>As for whether or not a simpler work, that could be played by student musicians would be something that could be submitted, I would disagree with compmom there and say, yes, it is possible to compose something substantial & original enough for an application and yet have it be playable by younger musicians. Is that an easy task? No. But possible. And, if successful - a terrific piece for submission to competitions which are always on the lookout for works playable at the student level.</p>
<p>Spirit Manager, the level of the high school musicians is important in deciding whether to have them play your music. You would probably be shocked at the low level of musicianship at our local school! There was no option in that direction for our daughter, but she did do a “service study” at school in which she wrote very simple music for them to play. They still had problems though.</p>
<p>In general, I do feel that an applicant should submit their best work, which may often (if not always) mean their most complex. I do believe that admission is more likely with more complex work, and that adapting the composition process so that pieces can be played by less able musicians, not only compromises quality but also compromises the “individual voice” that is so important. For kids like the poster’s son, who write music that they “hear” in their head, these issues get very complex: it is really better if they can just write what they hear and then find players who can handle it well.</p>
<p>Our daughter wanted to go to conservatory and got merit money at all of her top choices. But conservatory was still too expensive. The university where she studies has amazing financial aid. Luckily, she does have interest in academic subjects (right now, she is studying modernism in art. literature and music, Modern European history, and studying Ethiopian and Indonesian music). The academics certainly broaden her perspective on music and composing, but without money issues, her choice might have been a conservatory where her music could be played. I like the Peabody site’s description of how composers can best learn: write something, have it played, tweak it, have it played, write something else…This just is not as possible in a university environment. </p>
<p>Although some colleges/universities are better than others with this, and some do have composition seminars, weekly private lessons, student composer concerts and so on.</p>
<p>I suppose, on the flip side, student composers who go to university or college learn early to be entrepreneurial. They need to make their own opportunities by arranging their own concerts, finding musicians, entering competitions that reward with performances, and so on. But that can be tough on top of all the academic work, which can be demanding.</p>
<p>She also has had to find her own private teachers, and does both composition and guitar outside of her school. Again the flip side is that her private teacher provides access to musicians and other opportunities that feel maybe a little more like professional work.</p>
<p>Our daughter met with one chair of a music department/composer at an Ivy who told her that she should not even consider a conservatory, for composition. He stated that all composers should go to academic institutions (which was strange, since he himself had gone to conservatory and done very well.). She was absolutely outraged!</p>
<p>It is still possible that she will transfer, but in these first 2 years, we are saving $70,000, so that leaves money to spend on musicians :)</p>
<p>The other thing about composers is that there really is plenty of time. People often write their best music at a much later time in life: like Elliot Carter at 100! </p>
<p>Richard, you originally asked advice on how much to pay musicians. We pay $50-$70 per hour for each musician. For a high school kid, often a musician or two will insist on lower pay or even on helping out. We had some musicians in our local community who did that, and also who found a performance facility that was free on Sundays, which also happened to have a recording capacity.</p>
<p>For pieces that are 5-10 minutes long, this does not mean paying a lot. You could easily get a 5 minute piece played by 4 people, for instance, for under $250, and it could mean merit money of several thousand dollars.</p>
<p>Speaking of which, we highly recommend the Zoom H-2 for recording. You can google it. We found out about it here on CC!</p>
<p>We had scores “professionally bound” at a local copy place, which worked out great. Then we used commercial white labels on the front page, and on the CD cases. She just used a sharpie to label the actual CD’s. If your son has any handwritten scores, some schools like to see those too…</p>
<p>Has your son looked at Oberlin Conservatory? It seems as if that might also be a good fit. Have you seen their TIMARA program? Just a thought. Manhattan and NEC are both wonderful places! Juilliard often has one opening (like Curtis) but the final part of the application process can involve interviews with amazing composers, well worth it regardless of outcome. Hope you guys can enjoy all of this!</p>
<p>Since we’ve been through this recently as well, I’ll add a few points (although some of them won’t help Richard directly).
I agree that summer programs can be a huge help in getting good recordings of pieces that can be used for applications. They can be very good–my son got some very good recordings from student performers at Tanglewood.
Some schools are interested in electronic music, and of course, that doesn’t necessarily need to be performed by human performers at all.
I agree that composers need to be entrepreneurial to get their works performed. At my son’s university, another composition student started an ensemble essentially designed to play his works (and those of other student composers). But it’s also worth finding out whether the more traditional student ensembles are open to performing student works.
As for complex vs. simpler works, in my opinion it’s the idea that counts more than the complexity. Also, some student works are hard to play not so much because they are complex, but because the young composer doesn’t know yet what registers, intervals, etc., are difficult for instrumentalists and singers.</p>
<p>Hunt,</p>
<p>Your son is a first year student at Yale, right? How are things going for him? I hope he’s enjoying his studies, professors and fellow students. </p>
<p>My son, who is a second year double degree student at Tufts/NEC (composition), has a childhood friend who also just started at Yale. I’m not sure if he’s majoring in music but he is one heck of a young composer. He was an L.A. Phil. Composer Fellow his last two years of high school and a 2009 Young Arts finalist, I think. He and my son used to compose together on playdates almost a decade ago in L.A. We had our fingers crossed that he’d wind up at NEC but he preferred Yale. It’s wonderful that they are both pursuing their musical dreams. It’s not necessarily what you expect when you see a couple of 10 year olds noodling around together on the piano. </p>
<p>Best of luck to your son. I hope Yale is a great fit for him.</p>
<p>So far, my son is having a great time at Yale. He’s in the Composition Seminar, and likes his composition teacher. He’s not so crazy about the Music Theory and Musicianship classes that he had hoped to place out of. There are lots of opportunities to play music, and to get student music played. I think he will question whether he really wants to be a music major, which I think is inevitable for somebody who is going for a BA in a university as opposed to going to a conservatory.</p>
<p>Experienced Parents of compcollege students,
I just want to thank you all for your posts. How much fun for me to find you all in one post as I have been backward searching your threads from previous years to gain valuable information. I found this post very interesting as my son is still grappling with similar questions and composition application issues. I have a few questions that perhaps you may be able to answer:
- When one brings scores in to a copy center ( kinkos?) to have them professionally bound, do they know what to do, as I have never seen a bound score. If not, what do I tell them. He plans to include a preface for each piece of his own written description.
- For composition recordings are made is there a preferred formatting technique or information to be displayed with the CD? Two of three are recorded well ( WFMT studio and NIHSMI summer performance) and one is yet to be recorded ( a piano composition which he will record himself playing). We have a digital recorder and will need to buy a microphone or consider buying a Zoom H-2. ( We do have a headphone with voice recorder that my husband thinks would work… But I doubt the quality would be good enough).
- Conservatories vs Colleges/Universities - I am interested in your thoughts about the quality of non-music courses conservatories provide (and I would guess this varies from conservatory to conservatory). For instance I have noted of the schools my son has looked at have associations with universities: CIM w/ Case Western; MSM with Barnard ( also Columbia?); NEC w/Tufts? and many he has looked at that are housed within a university such as Jacobs, Bienan, CC, Eastman. He is interested in Boston Conservatory, but if I remember from our tour, they have a weak in house liberal arts component, which would almost disqualify them in my mind. He plans to go on to graduate school so I would like him to get somewhat of a broad education in college. What are your thought and experiences?
- How many schools did your children apply to, my son is having difficulty narrowing down his schools, they all look so good. I am not worried about the cost of application, as we cancelled a fall trip to visit schools to instead work on applications, so the difference can be made up there. However, the time in writing essays, and if he is invited to many how will we have time to go to them all? On the other hand is it better to apply and figure that he won’t be invited everywhere so put out a line and see what bites? No doubt you are wondering what his chances are to answer this question. I wish I knew. He doesn’t seem to be as experienced as your students from looking at your posts. He had a brass quintet composition performed at NHSMI that was well received and his two other compositions are piano. Other than these three he has not composed much except 6 etudes in his sophmore year. Academically he is good, upper 5 % of suburban Chicago school but that most likely won’t go far in music schools. He plays piano and french horn and has done very well there also, but for composition not sure that would matter either.
Any information would be welcome, I hope I haven’t been too verbose.</p>