University of…Tucson. They accept til May 3rd…or they offer their $ til then. Check their website. They literally publish their merit guarantee.
Also check UAH - see if it’s not too late there and MS State…they all show you up front to the dollar what you’ll get based on their grade calc of your son.
Check MIssouri S&T and Michigan Tech too. Not sure which schools still take apps but U of Arizona does.
https://financialaid.arizona.edu/types-of-aid/scholarships/incoming-transfer
Need to be admitted by May 3 - give yourself a month head start to be safe. Simple app, no essay. Or can use Common. They will have a school, enter your grades supplement. If your son never got lower than an A, he’ll get $35K. If he’s had one or two Bs, $30K.
Regarding Arizona, as @kidzncatz answered, both Arizona State and University of Arizona offer merit. I was listing states rather than specific universities.
In any event, it is good to hear that the video from Rowan spiked his interest.
There is nothing peculiar about Deb’s judge. Those of us who know that MANY employers look at undergrad (in addition to grad) keep quiet now because the CC police have deemed us all “peculiar”, insisting that it’s only the last degree that matters.
That may be true in speech therapy, medicine, and a host of other licensed professions, but is not always and universally true.
I have worked for many employers who care about undergrad. Sometimes it’s a finger on the scale 'Oh look, Susie graduated from a Bible College nobody ever heard of and ended up with an MBA from Wharton- she must be fantastic, let’s interview her". Sometimes it’s an outright preference-- “Our boss loves U Michigan and hates (fill in the blanks on a bunch of sports rivals) so we know this candidate will make it past the resume reading stage”.
On a different note, I agree that Rowan has a lot to offer. And it’s wonderful that there’s a whole wide world of employment out there where nobody cares where you went to college. But an employer who cares/takes note is not “peculiar”.
just a quick thought - i think it’s Arizona - (not ASU) that offers the best merit (at least it was for our son last year wtih 34 ACT and 3.95/4).
*sibling is a lawyer; and sibling’s place now only looks at top top top degrees. Husband is an engineer - and his place hires people from any ABET school - and they all start at the same salary. they would love to hire URM engineers - but very few if any ever apply.
Both University of Arizona and Arizona State University offer merit scholarships for stats.
https://financialaid.arizona.edu/types-of-aid/scholarships/incoming-transfer
https://scholarships.asu.edu/estimator
Note: “National Scholar” at ASU is defined at First-year Student Admissions | Barrett, The Honors College | ASU
What non-legal employers do isn’t relevant to legal hiring.
Blossom, Debnhill, as an aside, what do you mean?
These are the examples I provided -
3 candidates from Yale Law, one got their degree from UDel, one from Kalamazoo, and one from Williams, is that the one factor that’ll decide? What about 3 from UVA + Howard, Spelman, and Morehouse? Or 3 UPenn from UMaryland, SUNY Bing, and Temple?
Would these three candidates be selected based on their college or be considered equally?
Or do you mean something about the undergraduate that is very specific, such as Liberty or Oral Roberts v. UOklahoma?
Or colleges as far apart as CC->CSULA-> Stanford law and Stanford-> Stanford Law?
Or within the public system, sth like Radford v. UVA?
And would the Radford student really be less well considered if they had a top GPA and have a further degree from a Top 20?
Basically, is attending an affordable local college and doing exceedingly well so that you get into a Top 20 held against the applicant that chose the affordable college, and would getting into debt for a more highly ranked college (say, admitted to Radford full ride and VTech no aid) be advised at your firm? This would, indeed, go against what most people say on CC.
Yale law is a bad example. The class is tiny, getting in means you are already at the tippy top regardless of whatever went before that.
Nothing gets “held against” in my experience- it’s more the thumb on the scale. I’ve worked for leaders who prefer the kid who worked his or her way through college vs. a kid from a more privileged background (all things being equal) and I’ve worked for leaders who LOVE a prestigious background (but not a weak candidate- if the reality doesn’t jive with the resume) and I’ve worked for leaders who have said 'Bring me someone with a B average who gets along with and can lead people, vs. the A student who is tone deaf and has no emotional intelligence."
But I have never worked anywhere where undergrad “didn’t matter” as some on CC like to claim. Full disclosure- to my knowledge I have never hired anyone with a STEM degree from Liberty or Oral Roberts. Those colleges do not do their alums any favors by some of their political/anti-scientific screeds, even though I’m sure their classes are rigorous notwithstanding the political leanings of their leadership.
BYU? Yes, fantastic. Not the same thing at all. And although I’m not LDS, if I were, I’d have encouraged my kids to apply. Rigorous place, kids are hard-working and intellectually curious.
Going into debt for a more highly ranked college? Of course that depends. I don’t spend other people’s money. A modest amount of debt for a more rigorous education seems like a solid bet (but only if the family, kid, etc. understands what the repayment terms are and many do not). A modest amount of debt for a modest increase in prestige? Likely not “worth it” although worth is in the eyes of the beholder.
The HBCU’s? The three you mentioned are VERY prestigious in some corporate environments!!!
It is U of A is much better merit thatn ASU.
I once read a story that McKinsey wouldn’t look at a Harvard MBA because their undergrad was Colorado. Dumb if you think about it - every flagship has Ivy caliber students walking around. Their loss…
Most of these kids - hopefully they’ll get jobs or careers they enjoy and contribute to society. Most are not going to be gazillionaires. We just need for them to get a solid foundation. Their drive and desire will be what takes them forward.
Well I have a great news. I booked a private tour today at Rowan; we went and he fell in love with the new engineering building. He also got to talk to a bunch of civil engineering students who were on the lawn working with the surveying equipment. What we thought was a student, ended up being the professor of the civil engineering class who ended up spending a lot of time with us and explaining the projects and the employers who hire Rowan kids as soon as they graduate. He also asked him about his grades and told him he should apply for honors engineering.
I happened to get a postcard in the mail on Monday that invited him to apply for free with a waiver code, which we did. I emailed one of the admissions counselor to make sure there was still merit money available and he responded there definitely was.
Even if he received minimum merit money, it’s still more affordable than Rutgers, who gave him $0 and Rowan’s Electrical & Computer Engineering program is ranked #17, Rutgers is in the 50’s; Rowan has a maximum 24 students to a class-Rutgers could be hundreds. I think the choice is apparent–he will get a much better education at Rowan for possibly half the cost.
I would like to thank you ALL for your guidance and knowledge. I really don’t think we can go wrong with Rowan–it’s a community rather than an institution,unlike Rutgers where the professor will mostly likely never know your name.
I can tell you this, there is no Federal Judge in NJ that will hire a law clerk if they did not graduate from an Ivy league law school; most won’t even let Rutgers Law students do extern/internships either.
I know from my experience, community college and then a four-year college is HIGHLY looked up, especially if the applicant indicates they worked while paying themselves through college–that is a plus plus in our book
That is awesome news! Congrats!
and, I have to say back when I went to Middlesex County Community College in 1990, I obtained my Associates in Paralegal Studies (Middlesex & Montclair were the only two approved ABA colleges for this degree). I then transferred to Rutgers part-time, taking 6 credits a semester. Rutgers did not take a single credit from Middlesex. Rutgers was very behind with online classes, so I left Rutgers and enrolled in Fairleigh Dickinson University to obtain my Masters in Public Administration–funny thing, Fairleigh took all 78 of my credits from Middlesex. But of all three colleges, and being a single mom back then who worked full time and went to school, I was able to pay my way through Middlesex with no debt; but hands down I obtained the BEST education from Middlesex–it far exceeded the education I received from Rutgers. At Rutgers, I had all TA’s; I sat in classes with over 100 kids in each class; never got to personally meet any of my professors, nor did they know who I was. And, I say this as an ADULT who was paying herself through college, working and raising a son on my own–an ADULT who actually appreciated an education and worked to pay for that education. That is just my honest opinion.
Thanks… I mean we want to try to give our kids the best, but I will not go into $100k of debt nor will I allow my son to go into that debt as he begins his adult life–it’s kind of negligent.
They are not “legal interns” they are “law clerks” with a nicely paid starting salary. And, I am telling you, many of them are very picky when it comes to both undergrad and law school
I took him to Rowan today. We had a private tour of the Engineering Building–he was presently surprised and Rowan is now at the top of the list. We received a postcard from Rowan on Monday in the mail that waived the application fee, so he applied. I spoke to my other son’s admission counselor who advised that they are still awarding merit money. There is no doubt in my mind that he will get in–his stats are higher than what they publish. So Rowan may end up not costing much at all, or maybe nothing. Thanks so much for your advice. I can’t tell you how much you guys helped me in this one!
I agree. I was hoping for as little debt as possible for my two, but knew I wouldn’t let them take any more than the federal limit for four years ($27,000).
Some of the Supreme Court justices are also snobs for the Ivy league, but others do hire clerks from non-Ivies, some even from schools west of the Mississippi (gasp!).
I find it hard to believe that NO federal judge in NJ will hire a non-Ivy law clerk. The judges didn’t all go to Ivy schools. Ester Salas, the judge whose son was killed, went to Rutgers. I checked the JD of several judges and the first 3 I picked went to Rutgers.
Judges often hire from their schools.