But not all oos public are the worst financial choices. 3.9+Unweighted and 34+ ACT could put Alabama, Vermont, Miami OH, Arizona and others in a better place. They’re competitive with IU generally.
With room & board. Sounds like your son is set, maybe your daughter will consider it 
I know how it goes, my DD at times was desperate to go anywhere other than where she is now, only because other kids from HS went there and therefore too typical. I could see it had everything she wanted so I didn’t let it drop and she eventually came around and has totally loved it. But it was a long road. It is tough working out needs vs. wants vs. budget. I hope your son ends up loving Mizzou!
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The fact is that the more diverse a city is in the USA, the more segregated it will appear on most analyses. NYC, LA, NOLA, Boston, etc. Both NYC and Chicago were segregated down to country of origin and ethnicity, so Chicago has Ukrainian Village, Polish neighborhoods, Italian neighborhoods, the Jews lived around Maxwell street, moved to the South Side and then to Skokie, etc.
The only cities which were not segregated were the cities to which neither immigrants, nor minorities would move, or were welcomed if they did move. There is not a single city in the USA which is not segregated, and looking through the app below demonstrates just how bad and how widespread it happens to be. It is not only at the level of neighborhood and town and city, but entire regions.
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re: merit: i’ve had 3 kids graduate 2015-2020. Even in those few years, the number of (auto) merit options has gone down at schools all over.
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I wonder why? I’m sure COVID is the convenient reason for this last year, though they received stimulus and other CARES act funding. It seems non-pandemic related. Why is merit aid dropping?
Many colleges are shifting FA dollars from merit to need based aid, so they can attract more low-SES students (and give less merit $ to families who can pay all, or a substantial share of, the COA).
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Another reason…some schools over offered auto merit aid aid and changed to competitive merit aid. One example…Temple University. They used to have great auto merit…but that is not the case any longer.
And agree…some colleges are transitioning to mostly or all need based awards. Northeastern University, for example, had some auto merit awards, but their merit awards are now competitive as the school is transitioning to need based aid primarily.
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Pitt and Tulane are two more good examples of merit to need based aid shifters
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I would argue that the private schools - at least the second tier - cannot lose competitiveness. Tulane will lose out on those top students they want. The Washington & Lee will lose those Ivy students they are brining in.
Go to lesser ranked schools like Bradley or Butler or Evansville - if they don’t pay, they’re not going to get butts in seats.
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This is really the most realistic options for most families. The choice will be an in-state public or a mid-ranked private that provides enough FinAid (merit and/or need) to be affordable. Either can usually provide the education a student seeks, so it will be a matter of affordability and preference.
Bradley, Butler, Xavier, Muhlenburg, and a hundred other schools are great options for the families
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Slippery slope to do one in exchange for the other. These schools will lose out on high achievers that ultimately reflect on the institution.
Also a terrible disincentive for future students. Aim for a higher ACT, take that extra AP class, rank in the top of your class so you can get next to nothing.
This is all making so much more sense. Butler was by far the most generous, even though it couldn’t quite compete with in-state. And, it was automatic. I’m pointing my next college bound kid in the direction of midsize private.
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One thing schools are trying to do is to pick and choose who they think will go - hence schools - even publics such as Charleston - have ED. Then others focus on demonstrated interest figuring if you invest your time, they have a shot of getting you vs. someone who invested no time and might have applied just because.
A school like Pitt is still affordable in-state. And it’s highly regarded. But you have the southern schools such as South Carolina (with its highly regarded Honors College), Alabama, Florida State, Arizona - that are giving huge bucks!!
Those schools are brining in fantastic students - at some point it will benefit them ranking wise. Even if it doesn’t, there are thousands from Illinois, NY, NY, etc. going South - there are articles about some kids skipping Ivys and these states publics such as UIUC and Rutgers losing too many of the best and brightest.
Maybe it’s a 20 year cycle but at some point the pendulum will swing because even if you can afford to spend $75K a year, you’re not going to if you don’t have to!!!
My kid is in at Florida State - $6K a year tuition OOS for #59. She wants to go to Charleston…about $21K or so and less pedigree. There are options - lower cost - you just need to be flexible. Your kids won’t be!!
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I hear you, and I’ve read some (what I call) horror stories on CC and elsewhere. Fortunately, my S20 was flexible. I had a budget, and through clear and repeated conversations, he knew I had a hard line on that budget. If the COA came back too high, he knew those colleges were out of the running.
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It seems like many schools make the switch from merit to need based aid once they hit a certain “popularity” threshold. They begin to enroll so many highly qualified applicants, particularly through ED (where FA is less of am issue), they turn their goals to increasing SES diversity which necessitates the prioritization of need based aid.
The switch can be in the span of one or two admission cycles so it catches people off guard. As an example a full pay good friend’s S17 received amazing merit from Tulane and her D19 with similar stats received none.
This year with all the TO implementation, merit seems even harder to predict.
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Merit aid is not “aid”. It’s a discount, and an enrollment tool. Jet Blue wants to sell every seat on its popular routes to Florida. That likely means discounting in August, and full fares in February.
Need based aid is in an entirely different category, and used to build a class which meets the institutional mission.
Colleges that switch from a heavy merit strategy to a need based strategy aren’t suddenly enrolling dumb kids who didn’t “reach” or take that extra AP class. And they are likely enrolling the same number of high achievers, so they don’t have to worry about the “low achievers” reflecting poorly on their institution.
They are switching out one set of high achievers (middle and upper middle class kids who have a budget and merit aid helps them stretch their budget further) to a DIFFERENT set of high achievers (lower income kids who may not have any budget- it’s either commute to community college which they pay for with Pell or get a job). Need based aid makes the difference between getting a degree or not getting a degree at all.
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No one is saying that they’re enrolling “dumb” kids. That’s insulting to suggest. I think we all understand and appreciate the importance of need based support. But there is no doubt that my son is feeling his effort, including ALL the essays because so many of the scholarships are competitive, was anything but worth it.
I don’t think of merit as a “discount” exactly. Makes it sound random and unearned. Or like we got in on sale. I think of it as an exchange for high achievement with the assumption that those same students will continue to be high achieving in their institution and in life. Those students will reflect on their reputation and future alumni donations.
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Sidenote: Pitt is NOT affordable instate (it’s currently 32-36k for tuition/fees/R&B, depending on the school applied for which is generally 20+K, and there’s almost no financial aid, merit only for top1% test scores). It’s incredibly expensive and each year there are PA residents’ kids who are admitted, get some aid, but nowhere near enough to attend, and either go to private universities (there are over a hundred in the State and they know how to price themselves) or nearby states’ publics, such as Ohio and West Virginia.
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However one wants to think of merit aid, it is definitely a discount. And at some schools, 99% of students qualify for ‘merit’, it isn’t unearned per se; the students qualify by being willing to commit to that specific school. There is usually quite a sliding scale, from as little as a few hundred dollars to several tens of thousands of dollars but merit aid is an enrollment aid, not a prize for being awesome (if it was that, they would just give you the money outright to be spent as you so chose).
Colleges and Universities are in the business of getting butts in lecture halls, and bodies in dorms. They need to make their target yields, and therefor many schools do offer discounts (merit and need based) to get the butts/bodies they want each year. If you want/need more money, you need to find the schools who need to give a bigger discount to get the right number of the right kids in those spots. You may want to check out Jeff Selingo’s new book where he talks about buyer schools and seller schools. We found it to be very enlightening.
Our family went into our oldest’s college search keenly aware of the merit we needed to reach the firm budget we set. I am a huge bargain value shopper, lol and as long as the college worked for our daughter, met our requirements and was under budget - I couldn’t have cared less if the colleges that fit the bill gave the discount ‘unearned’ versus them thinking our daughter walked on water. We wanted the discount more than we wanted prestige/recognition. Our daughter (like so many others on this board), had been recognized many times over for her strengths and achievements throughout high school - we wanted her to go to a college where she could get a great education at the price we were willing to pay. There are plenty out there that meet those requirements.
She ended up at a wonderful school, with a very large merit award that left her COA well below the top of her budget. It didn’t have everything she wants (location took a huge hit from her ‘wants’ list) but the school has been a great match for her and she is already seeing the benefits.
She is the only person in her friend group that didn’t end up at a “NAME” school. But as she and her high school friends have kept in touch this year, she is finding that she has had as many (and often) more opportunities than her friends at those “NAME” schools, with amazing professors who all graduated from those amazing “NAME” schools. She didn’t have to take an on-campus job because her school came in at a great price, allowing her to have more time for her studies and her extracurriculars. She has built close relationships with a couple of her professors already, as well as outside contacts her professors have connected her with helping with possible internships/experiences. She is getting the opportunity to study abroad for an entire year because of her choice of school and the budget she will still have after tuition/fees/R&B.
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Your daughter received a merit discount. I have little doubt that the word choice is probably right. It’s disheartening though. It’s like seeking a college on a clearance rack. Sometimes you luck out and get a great deal. Other times, it unravels after the first wash.
Of course, like every parent, I want the best value and the best experience. I know what I’m willing to pay and what he’s willing to sacrifice. But…I will never agree that the highest achieving kids shouldn’t have more equity allowing them more options. If not, again I’m not sure of the point. Be upper middle achieving. You yield the same result.
In theory you have access to better programs…Honors, Research. High achievers typically will win …if they are go getters.
At Charleston, kids with under $30K EFC get an additional $6K. My kid is in Honors…but my EFC is triple that (so says the govt). How is that fair I have to pay more for the same thing? That’s a societal discussion.
Where the haves economically and have nots differ often is greek life…it’s sooooooo expensive.
Because college is a business, if you’re willing to give up a name, you’ll always find a place to get a quality and affordable education. Perceived lesser schools need butts in seats.