Expenditure per student? Alumni giving? Ways to determine ROI

“How does one evaluate the student experience included in the price of tuition?”

That’s the tough part! So many of those things don’t come across during campus visits and you don’t learn them until you are already matriculated.

If you and your child can put together a list of what’s important, you could try posting in the college specific subforms to try to get details.

Most colleges do have calendars on their website of what’s happening around campus, or on twitter ; ). That’s not always the easiest to navigate either though because many times there are major specific events, or dorm events, or learning community events not listed on the main calendar but it can still give a general sense of what’s happening.

Evidence of spend ≠ evidence of better outcomes in the classroom. If perks like flat screens in dorm rooms (I know schools who do that) and subsidized laundry are what you are looking for then you will actually find more of that at places like OSU.

More importantly, there are 2 parts to your phrase “part of our decision”. As the financier, you can, and very much should, say 'this is your budget". As a parent you can help shape the conversation. But at the end of the day, it is NOT “our” decision: it is your sons, because it will be his college experience.

The colleges that you have mentioned on other threads are very much in the same tier: the meaningful differences will be 1) affordability and 2) your son’s fit with them. The differences between these schools are so small that it is really splitting hairs to try and figure out who spends more or less in any given category.

@collegemom3717 I’m not sure if you read all of my replies. Not looking for country club school with flat screens or lazy rivers. See my comments about my husband hating on the landscaping at Davidson. Ha.

Wow. @collegemom3717 Maybe we are splitting hairs but it’s a lot of money. And I know there are fairly big differences between Kenyon and. Carleton and Williams. As for your comment about “our” decision, I don’t even want to go there. Of course it’s S19’s final decision but he’s 17 and not sure of his major and will be looking for our input. Just trying to make sure he has good info in order to make the right decision for him. I’m not looking to be lectured.

You really have to value the full lifetime utility of the college. A discounted cash flow analysis of future salary is really the wrong measure also. I have generated a lot of additional post graduation utility from my colleges. A lot of it comes from college sports. I have been to NCAA finals in basketball, football bowl and conference championship games, and trying to get to all of the away stadiums for football. I know I wouldn’t do this if I didn’t graduate from the school. I am wearing a shirt from the school right now. I also have a statue of the mascot in my foyer. My SO that had a more nontraditional college experience generates almost no additional utility from that school.

snap! I see the conversation went on faster than my post. Yes, @momofsenior1’s advice is spot on.

Admitted students weekends are really useful as well. Yes, they are trying to woo, but everybody there is a potential future classmate, and the reality of being there makes things look rather different.

@Eeyore123 love that. Lifetime utility. That would be great if our kids both got that, whether it’s in terms of college sports (let’s face it, that’s fun) or in terms of life-long friends or in terms of being part of a local alumni group that supports each other.

If your student is interested in physics, take a look at the course catalogs and schedules to see what upper level physics courses are offered and how often. Physics has a fairly standardized set of upper level courses*, so if any are missing or not offered frequently enough, that is a negative factor, while more frequent offering is desirable in giving more scheduling flexibility. Look also at faculty listings and research activity if the student wants to do undergraduate research. Do similar for any other potential major at the college. In other words, make sure that the basic academic features are present (particularly if the colleges or departments are small).

  • For physics, look for upper level courses in: intermediate/advanced mechanics (including relativistic) electromagnetism and optics (often two semesters) quantum mechanics (often two semesters) statistical and thermal physics intermediate/advanced lab electives

@ucbalumnus Fabulous list! thx!

Reading the Grinnell link, it becomes apparent that different schools have different philosophies on spending. Grinnell seems to be quite fiscally conservative and spends their money in accordance with their mission. So you need to look at which school philosophy/mission aligns best with your S. No sense picking a school based on some version of ROI or spending per student, if those things aren’t as meaningful to him. The schools on your son’s list are all terrific. None are going to provide a shabby education. He will be best served to select the final one based on fit, vibe, feel etc.

IPEDS distinguishes instructional spending per student, which (in theory, at least) should not include spending on climbing walls (or the “gold plated toilets” mentioned above). A large part of instructional spending goes to faculty salaries. Lower S:F ratios (and smaller classes) will tend to drive up the instructional spending per student; so will a higher concentration of distinguished, experienced professors. However, neither of these factors (or both together) can guarantee an excellent learning environment that works well for your particular kid. If you measure the “R” mainly by future earnings, then the choice of major may matter more than the school choice. But then, not everyone wants to major in CS or EE.

@homerdog: In answer to your question posed in the original post in this thread, I think that the answer is no, spending per student is not a good way in which to select your son’s school. Why ? Because almost all of the schools to which your son has applied are outstanding, and all spend more than an adequate amount per student to ensure high quality of instruction & facilities.

You have identified two schools on the list which may spend too much on scholarships and financial aid for other students. Of the remaining eight, ten or twelve colleges & universities, you can select on fit & comfort level, or on fit & growth experience.

It is important to determine what type of college experience your son is seeking, and whether that will be the most beneficial to him. In short, how much is he ready & willing to grow at this stage of his life ?

Wow @Publisher you’ve hit the nail on the head. It is true that some of the schools on his list would be more challenging for him, whether it be socially or academically. My husband and I were just talking about that this morning. If he gets into one of his bigger reaches, will he be comfortable there? Will he throw himself into the mix and go for it? Or will he be a bit intimidated by kids who maybe have more life experience than he does? Would he feel more comfortable staying in the Midwest or the south where the culture may feel more recognizable to him? So hard to know. We will have to rely on visits after acceptances to see how he reacts to schools we haven’t visited yet.

Can you clarify…your EFC is $160??? Or $160k ???

$160k

All this makes me wonder how many of us look back as parents and think about the college we attended in terms of ROI, endowment, spending per student………seems most of us would simply look back and think about what a great experience it was (or wasn’t in rare cases), and as for finding a great college for your kid, I agree with what @publisher says; that depends on what your child is looking/ready for. Looking for my children it always comes down to that very nebulous word…".fit", but it is the most important aspect that you should be looking for.

Ideally narrow down the revisits to his top 3 acceptances- and include schools that he has been to before. They look surprisingly different when you are making an actual commitment, vs window shopping!

@CU123 yes. You’re right. Maybe I’m just killing time between now and March when he will finally start hearing from schools. Overthinking over here. :wink:

@homerdog check out the highest level maths and physics at the schools. I wonder if amherst having access to Umass amherst courses might offer higher/more choices senior math physics options? but don’t know about those areas at the NESCACs