@theloniusmonk he also applied for Davidson Belk and Cornelius Vanderbilt. Those are the long shot merit possibilities.
Maybe intermediate between these points, so neither “average,” nor skewed to an extreme (of which the latter, as you observed, may be disproportionately represented on these forums).
https://bulletin.kenyon.edu/feature/the-cost-of-kenyon/ says “the average discount rate for all undergraduates reached 44.8 percent; in comparison, Kenyon’s discount rate for its current student body lands around 36 percent” which means Kenyon’s full payers subsidize aid students less than average since there is a higher percentage of full payers at Kenyon than average, because Kenyon’s endowment is relatively low.
Not necessarily true. Wouldn’t it depend upon the source of the the funds enabling the school to discount ? Could come from the overall endowment or from special scholarship funds, etc.
@vonlost I get that math, but I guess I was thinking that schools with a bigger endowment or donations use some of the money to fund financial aid. And then our tuition money isn’t being used as much to fund other students’ financial aid because its coming from sources other than tuition revenue. I don’t know. Maybe it’s impossible to know where our tuition dollars are going exactly by looking at a school’s budget. It was only when I saw this infographic in the Kenyon piece that the 24% was glaring right at me.
But the 24% is expenditure from tuition revenue plus endowment income plus contributions. Kenyon rates high on the scale of not supporting aid students, if that’s an important consideration. But I think it is complicated.
@vonlost yikes. That sounds bad that I don’t support a school that is poor at supporting aid students. And that’s not true. That Kenyon report led me to thinking about where our money is going and that’s when I started looking at how much is spent on each student which led me to posting that topic.
There’s all kind of info out there about how the cost of college got so high. I just became curious about where exactly our tuition money will go especially since we will be paying the maximum amount and, if I’m honest, then I would rather that money be spent on the student experience…not funding other kids’ financial aid packages.
That school also noted that it would be increasing funds for financial aid. Suggests that a larger portion from tuition payments will be redirected to financial aid.
Perhaps funding aid enrichens student experience. I think that’s what most private colleges believe.
I agree that creating a diverse environment with students of all races and walks of life does indeed enrich student experience.
I agree with that as well but being full pay does make one think about the absurd amount of money $280k is for undergrad. We could have given S19 a lower budget but that would just be shooting ourselves in the foot as the schools he’s applied to are the best fit for him and cost what they cost. In the end, does that mean we are literally paying for our son to have diversity in his classrooms? I suppose so, but he could have had diverse classrooms at less expensive schools. I guess we just need to get over that feeling that we are paying for other kids’ educations. We’ve saved since the kids were born and were fortunate to be able to do so. Again, I was just curious about exactly how that tuition money will be spent. Hard to know exactly so I was investigating expenditure per student as a way to feel better about the cost. Some schools on S19’s list do indeed spend more money per student even though they will cost us the same. That’s the kind of thing I was scoping out.
I’m perplexed. OP suggests it might not be good that Kenyon devotes 24% of its tuition revenue to financial aid, but then expects her son to get a merit scholarship, which comes out of that 24% (plus the additional 12% of revenue derived from the endowment, to get to the overall 36% net discount). So for him personally that’s a good thing, even if the college is less diverse because dollars go to merit not just need.
It seems to me that the important issue is that the endowment only provides income equal to 12% of the tuition fee revenue. I assume that number is much higher at many colleges with a higher endowment per student. And the fact that Kenyon feel obliged to offer merit suggests they have a harder time persuading top students to attend.
@Twoin18 true. I guess it doesn’t make sense that I think both that S19 might get merit and that I’m not thrilled about the 24 percent of the cost going towards financial aid. I think I was just using Kenyon as an example of a percent of tuition used to fund financial aid. So, at the schools where we will be full pay, I’m curious how much of that tuition payment will go towards need-based financial aid for other students.
It’s a conversation that full pay parents who I know do have - if we are paying full tuition, how much of our money is being used for need based financial aid for other students. I’m not completely confortable thinking about it in those terms so I went a little bit of a different direction in my search of how the money is being spent and settled on looking for expediture per student. If it’s higher or equal to the price of tuition, that makes me feel better. But, as explained above in other posts, it’s not a perfect way of looking at things either because any one student may or may not benefit from the total dollar amount spent per student (ie if money is spent on new science labs and the student is a history major).
You are concerned that the funds you pay a school might go to benefit another student instead of your child. If you look at any college that has been in existence for any length of time, all of the students that have attended the school in the past are subsidizing the current students. Kenyon college is getting close to its 200th birthday. Who paid for the all of the things that are benefiting current students, such as the buildings, the equipment, the property, the faculty, the programs, and its excellent reputation? Former students. To fear that somehow your tuition dollars might help another student instead of your own is troubling.
The concern that full pay students at private colleges taking classes at U Mass Amherst are somehow not getting their money’s worth is also curious. The classes at state schools are heavily subsidized by the state. If students want to take them, they must be receiving benefits that aren’t available at their home college.
Measuring ROI for college is inherently difficult or impossible. You can quantify most of the investment, but quantifying the return (before they even start) for any individual student is impossible. If you look at the range of outcomes for any particular school or major, the individual differences will be far greater than differences in the aggregate outcomes between schools. You son is interested in math or physics. As a math major, your son may end up working in a financial field and making a very large salary. Or he could choose to teach math at a K-12 school. As a physics major, he might end up as a tenured professor at a prestigious university or he might end up as a lab technician. There is just no way of knowing ahead of time.
If you insist on continuing down the ROI path, look at the honors college at your state flagship or schools that he will receive large merit awards. Instead of 70k, your cost might be 35k or 20K or even less. This will result in the best ROI. Frank Bruni’s book “Where You Go Is Not Who You’ll Be: An Antidote to the College Admissions Mania” might be worth looking at.
Find a school that is a good fit for you son and one that you will not begrudge paying for. All of the schools you have mentioned are top, top schools and all of them will offer amazing opportunities for your son.
In other countries (and in our public state schools), more of the tax dollars are used to fund higher education. The effect is similar. Those who can pay more will pay more for higher education.
Could it be @homerdog that it boils down to you are just lukewarm on Kenyon and are trying to find ways to eliminate it and justify not picking it in the end despite getting merit/having lower sticker price?
Ok. I understand the last two points. I was just being very very honest when I shared that concern and I probably shouldn’t have said it. I’m sure that some other full pay parents feel the same way. This is getting off track. We are a family who looks for value. I mentioned above that we looked into honors colleges and they aren’t the best fit for S19. Now, if we didn’t have the funds, he might have to make one of those work for him, but we were able to save so that he can have choices. Or maybe he would be one of the kids who would receive need-based aid if we didn’t save but we didn’t risk that and, again, we’re very fortunate that we could save the money.
I don’t think it’s unreasonable to be curious where tuition dollars go. Does our S19 want diversity both socio economic and racial diversity? Of course. At certain schools, it seems that the full pay families help fund the diversity since the full price tag is really high and many, many families cannot afford it. I’ll make myself crazy, though, thinking about what percent of our payments fund any particular budget line item. My opening question had to do with how much the school spends per student. That’s the number that’s most important to me.
@wisteria100 haven’t gotten a definite yes from Kenyon yet and I don’t want to count our chickens before they hatch but I suppose there is some truth to that statement. I really loved Kenyon during our visits but the school does struggle with its location being more remote than any LAC we’ve visited so it has to do what it has to do to get students and to keep it financially healthy. I really don’t have it out for Kenyon. The article I posted here earlier just came across my email and I realized all of the issues behind how to fund the school. It’s what started my looking for stats on expenditure per student as a way to try to find value. I now agree with other posters’ analysis that that probably not a great way to ascertain value, though, and fit will be the way S19’s decision will be made in the end. The school that has what he needs most will be his choice I’m sure. The wait continues…
“I’m wondering if spending per student could be a way for us to help us decide on a school for S19”
I would only treat it as one of many factors when deciding on which college to attend. As someone mentioned, if our kids are so blessed with many acceptances, narrow the list down to the top 3 choices and make a list of the pros and cons of each college and visit the college on accepted students day.
IMO, 4 years of college is much, much more than how much the college spends per student and the monetary ROI. And remember, most kids can and will thrive at most colleges on their short list no matter how much or how little the college spends on them.
@homerdog I am not an expert on athletics @ D3 schools, but you may start to run into issues. You may want to check on the athletic subforum. The schools have to be careful that merit doesn’t start looking like athletic scholarships.