Expenditure per student? Alumni giving? Ways to determine ROI

@anon145 we didn’t “seem interested” in Alabama because it’s not a fit for our son who wants a smaller community for his college experience. I’ve learned a few things on this thread about who gets need based aid and I never said that I was adverse to low income students receiving aid. I applaud that. I’d just like to see enough spent per student to feel like we are getting value for our tuition dollars. That’s why I started this thread to see if expenditure person student and alumni support would maybe make a school more “worth it” for a family who is full pay.

My comments about others not paying as much were just an honest assessment of how we feel sometimes. I agree that we’ve chosen expensive schools. But other families also chose them and pay less. I don’t know your situation but I think it’s only fair for one to try to put himself in our shoes too. Do you think that anyone likes parting with that much money if even if they have it? You know that the way that many people become wealthy is by making choices that are very frugal, right? So, when it’s time to spend the money that’s been saved for college, many of those families just feel more comfortable knowing what the big price tag is for, how is it spent. I don’t think that’s an odd thing to want to know.

I’m not sure if you are a student or not but, if you are, then you are probably too young to understand.

I’m not looking to debate how we will spend our money. Since we have saved, we feel like we should get to choose how we spend it. Why wouldn’t we want the best fit for our kids if we’ve spent years saving for college?

I think I’ve learned quite a bit on this thread about how to determine what might be “worth it” for S19 and it boils down to fit and finding a place that spends its money on things that are important to him.

In any case, roughly half of the classes at the colleges on @homerdog’s son’s list attend as full-pay students. The path has been well established.

@homerdog – having watched your narrative of your S’s college since last Spring, I predict that once your S knows his options and you and your DH see him get really excited about his ultimate choice you will recognize it’s a great fit and part with the $$ more willingly. It’s easier to justify the investment in the concrete than in the abstract, and I don’t think quantitative analysis will play a big role in the end.

The waiting game is hard and you’re not the first to spend time running more analyses, but at the end of the day he’ll know where he’s meant to be and you’ll know – and it will be awesome!

Good luck!

Thanks @AlmostThere2018 :slight_smile:

Income seems to be a much bigger determinant of financial aid than savings, although savings and other assets do play a role.

@Homerdog, it sounds like you and I are in a similar situation in that we are closer to the cut-off for aid/ no aid than are some other full pay families with much higher salaries. We even considered applying for aid this year to see if we would get any, but ultimately we decided not to do so.

But I don’t have a problem with part of our tuition being used to fund other kids’ educations, because I consider their presence on campus to be part of my son’s education. One probably learns as much from peers in college as one does from the professors.

But yes, a lot of the full pay kids are from much, much richer backgrounds than ours. I am on a public K-12 school district’s salary scale, and my spouse earns less than I do.

But my kid’s friends at college include people on full financial aid (all aid there is need-based), some middle to upper middle class kids probably on partial aid, some people probably in our general ballpark, and some much more wealthy kids… and kids from all over the nation and world, of various races, etc. I consider this diversity to be part of the benefit of going to a college like his instead of going to a college that cannot afford to subsidize the education of less wealthy kids and thus attract them to the college. This exposure to diversity is a big part of what you refer to as ROI in this thread.

But yes, as I have shared with you before, sometimes my husband and I do walk around campus and comment that so much of the school’s money seems to be going to attract top professors and students and is not going into other things. Parts of campus definitely look a bit run-down.

And the contrast between what kids with even a little aid get versus what kids with no aid get is stark: all their textbooks, free skiing lessons and all equipment rentals, career exploration trips, etc., etc. It seems like the list of things that are paid by the college for kids with financial aid never ends. It is hard not to experience moments of envy, but then I put it into perspective: we are lucky that we do not have to panic about how to pay for our shelter, food, transportation, and health care. Some of the people whose kids get aid face those worries every day.

In answer to the original post, however, I don’t know if ROI can be quantified if you broaden the definition beyond post-graduation salaries— and I would, because college is about learning and enjoying the exploration of ideas, not just about career preparation. So much of the college experience is intangible.

If I were your family, I would go by what your son feels is the best “fit” once he knows where he has been accepted. All his applications are to good schools, so there is not a “wrong” choice. Where will he be happy?

My kid is so happy in every phone call that I am fully satisfied with our ROI so far. The “fit” seems so perfect. Sometimes I try to imagine what it would be like if my son had gone to one of his safeties that is pretty different from his college. I think he would still be happy, because of who he is, and even his safeties were colleges with very good reputations. But, judging from some of his high school friends’ experiences, I think there would be some aspects that would have been less of a “fit” for him than where he is.

What really would have been tough for him, and might be tough for your son, would be a choice between a couple of safeties that “fit” and do not “fit” in very different aspects. Then, the question becomes, in which aspects is it most important to him to have a fit?

Thanks for chiming in @TheGreyKing. I hear you loud and clear. All of what you say makes sense to me. And, in the end, if he’s choosing between schools that are matches and safeties, he will have to decide which aspects of a school are the most important to him.That makes sense.

And I continue to be so happy that your son is thriving!

My older daughter attended undergrad at one of our instate public schools and we were full pay ( nowhere near the cost of a private, obviously). Some kids received merit, others received some financial aid etc. I never really thought about it…but nobody paid the same price.

My younger one is at a school that meets full need based on Fafsa EFC. Some families are full pay…while others pay zero. I never really thought much about it…I was only focused on what we could afford and whether my kid was at a fit school. Those were the two factors that were important to me. My D has two close friends who are on full FA…they pay nothing. I never thought about it until now, but I am happy that they have this opportunity and I am grateful that my kid has made some wonderful friends.

At some point we have to accept the way FA or merit works, and then move on. I understand that college is very expensive…that first semester payment is a shock… whether it’s $15,000 or $35,000…it’s still a lot of money for most people.

@homerdog I sense your stress ( I understand…I was there twice) but it will work out. Your son applied to some amazing schools and at the end of this process he will have made the right choice for him. I am looking forward to hearing what school he attends and how well he is doing. Now it’s time to relax… :)>-

Yup. And tat diversity part of the mission and experience at every elite, to varying degrees. Except maybe WUSTL :slight_smile:

This study can serve to reinforce the decision to attend a liberal arts college given a realistic choice:

Pascarella, Wong, Trolian and Blaich. Higher Education (2013).

I think whatever lens you are viewing it from, people find a way to perceive things as unfair or broken. But you do have to remember that at schools that are not need blind, full pay kids can get an admissions bump that others do not. And even at need blind schools, full pay kids may get that bump during the WL period when things can change to need aware. Even schools that are totally need blind, can probably figure out who is full pay by looking at the high school and parent profile. Full pay in itself can offer admissions advantages that families needing aid don’t get.

@twogirls thanks! yes, at some point, acceptance will have to set in. I have to keep reminding myself that, at our income level, we probably wouldn’t have received any need based aid anyway so our only choice was to save. And, because we have, our kids will have the luxury of being able to choose the school that works best for them if they can get in.

About eight more weeks until we start getting answers…

@wisteria100 I agree that being full pay will probably help at a few of his schools. I think at least three of them are need aware. Of course his bigger reaches are need blind so that probably will not come into play.

Interesting discussion. I think what is most important is that schools have the money to accomplish their missions. For some schools this is easier than others. Kenyon has the money to complete an ambitious building program while Middlebury is straining to meet its needs. Middlebury spends more than its yearly income and is trying to balance it’s budget by increasing class size and freezing hiring. This has caused complaints about overcrowding and reducing Middlebury’s quality of life. That is a metric we should be interested in.

@AriBenSion Hm. Where can I get more info on that Middlebury situation? Why would it be in this position?

Middlebury has been spending its endowment each year to balance its budget. That is unsustainable and the president has committed to balance the budget in the next few years. All the info is on their website and overcrowding complains are in the student newspaper.

This is the place to get up to speed on Middlebury’s initiative to reduce spending:
http://www.middlebury.edu/offices/administration/vpfin/financial-sustainability

Also, definitely read the student newspapers regularly at the school’s on your S’s list…they are full of good information

If ROI is a major consideration, then it would be hard to beat schools such as Williams College & Dartmouth College if we limit the discussion to schools either under consideration or to schools similar to those revealed as being under consideration by @homerdog & family.

Some may find this approach regarding fit helpful: What will my son or daughter have to do in order to fit in at this particular college ?

Answers may range from “drink” to “work his tail off”.

@Publisher “drink”. I want to lol but understand that this could be partly true!

@Publisher: If Hamilton grads report higher early career earnings than Williams grads, why would you single out Williams with respect to ROI?