Expensive Undergraduate School -- What's the point?

College Search & Selection
1

<p>Stanford, Amherst, Swarthmore, Harvard, Princeton... etc.</p>

<p>These are all very expensive schools, and for the middle income families, an undergraduate would be very hard to pay for.</p>

<p>So my question is, what is your opinion on going to one of these expensive private schools for an undergraduate degree, since employers only care about a graduate degree anyway?</p>

<p>Do you believe that the alumni connections, resources, etc. are worth it?
Or what do you think about going to a state university, preferably in some sort of honors program, and rising above and taking every opportunity there?</p>

<p>Sometimes I think it would actually be beneficial to go to the state school via the honors program. Maybe at a private school you'd be competing against way more ambitious, intellectual students? At a state school, do you think you'd shine brighter than your peers?</p>

<p>But I know some downsides are that you'll be competing against MANY more kids at a state university (unless you're in a special honors program, but even then you might take some classes that are non-honors students only), and professors have so many more kids to keep track of.</p>

<p>So those are my thoughts, what are yours?</p>

2

<p>I think it depends on the career your going into, because it's obvious that if your planning to be a lawyer/doctor/ or any other career that needs a post undergraduate education, you'll eventually be caughing up more money for grad/med/law school.</p>

<p>Also if you can get into a school like stanford, amherst, harvard, etc, chances are you can get really good merit aid from a school that is not in the top 20 like say, Carnegie Mellon, USC, NYU, BU, which are all great schools to attend for undegrad.</p>

3

<p>I personally think it doesn't matter, graduate matters a whole ton more and that's where I'm planning to spend my money the most. Undergrad, although I want to end up in a great school, it's less important to me. At a state school, there are definately more people to compete against, but not all of those people will be academically forthbringing as a private school's might.</p>

<p>It's a weigh and balance sort of thing. Personally, I've already made my decision.</p>

4

<p>The problem is for people in small states/states with poorer public universities. Obviously a 3.9 GPA from Montana State University is a longshot for top-notch graduate schools, whereas a 3.9 from Berkeley, UVA, and UNC (the first and the last are noted for their lack of a grade inflation, not sure about UVA) is completely different. Out-of-state tuition is usually much higher, and thus a superior aid package offered by a private school is better. And don't get me wrong, I love UNC and will probably end up going there, but the average caliber of the student isn't as high as a Harvard or MIT. Certain students are highly motivated and chose UNC for their own reasons or took longer than others to become motivated in high school - these will likely do as well as their Ivy counterparts. However, being an NC resident, I have seen many people who are quite frankly not that smart get into UNC - these people will likely go nowhere. That's not to say there aren't lazy people at Ivies, but the typical student is more motivated. But then again you cannot forget the counterbalance that a school like UNC simply has more students, so there are still significant numbers of extremely intelligent and highly motivated students. What <em>is</em> overrated, in my opinion, is the actual acedemic experience of the elite research universities' undergraduate programs - this especially leaves public universities and LACs with an undeserved, diminished reputation.</p>

<p>And truth be told, many don't care as much about the overall school experience as they do prestige and bragging rights.</p>

5

<p>It depends on too many factors. What are your options? What are the cheaper alternatives? What do you want to do with your undergraduate degree? I believe in giving State universities their due, but the number of state universities that are worth chosing over top private universities are very few in number.</p>

6

<p>It really depends. I initially started out at an expensive private school that basicay threw money at me (institutional grants...not scholarships) and had I wen there, the cost would have comparable to an in state public school. My parents are middle class but no way could they have afforded the $35k to $40k price tag....in fact, I had to negotiate aid and after they re-evaluated my fin aid package, they upped the offer. It really depends....sometimes you can negotiate.</p>

<p>Ended up not going to that school and opted for a public out of state....that ended up costing me more in terms of what I had to pay and how many oans I had to take out, but I am MUCH happier with my choice and it's definitely been worth it.</p>

7

<p>It depends on preference.
Some attending private universities find the academic and social environment more to their liking. Perhaps one does not prefer larger intro classes conducted by profs and smaller sessions with TAs. In general (very general I add), the socioeconomic status of one's peers may be a consideration. Many of the students at an Amherst, Duke, Yale, etc... do not receive financial aid and are probably from wealthier families. I would guess, that if money was no object, the average candidate would select a private school. Obviously there are a fair number of students on financial aid at these top private schools. On the other hand, state universities serve the public and the top 10 -15 state universities are superb research institutions having many top notch professors.</p>

<p>It is interesting how many state universities are attempting to provide a more private school education for their top students in their honors programs.<br>
The bottom line:
One can get a great education at either. A top student at Michigan,UVa, UNC, etc.. can excel anywhere.</p>

8

<p>You can get as good an education in the narrow sense of academic learning at an honors college at a public university and, at the top public institutions, an excellent education. But if you have a lower middle class background and manage to attend an expensive top ranking private college via financial aid, parental sacrifices, jobs, loans , whatever, you wil also gain social and intellectual skills that will be invaluable in demanding careers later on. In addition, the luxuries in terms of of campus environment and facilities available at private colleges may well contribute to a four-year experience that will occupy an important place in your store of experiences for a lifetime.</p>

9

<p>Here's the thing.</p>

<p>If you're poor, you will get a lot of grant money from ivy/top private colleges.</p>

<p>If you're rich, well whatever.</p>

<p>The middle class gets screwed here. That is where college admissions is really strange. Unless you're going to get merit $ from top schools, they are in my opinion NOT worth it unless it's a specialized program such as Wharton, SFS @ Gtown, PLME @ Brown, etc. I think in that case the money is justified, but the AGE OLD DEBATE of 3.9 at local state U vs 3.3 at top ivy makes me feel like state U is the best call when you can save sometimes up to 100,000 dollars. Some state schools however like UNC/Michigan are nearly impossible to afford due to the lack of grant money, even more impossible for out of state students. </p>

<p>It's really a case by case call</p>

10

<p>It depends. One benefit to top private colleges is that it makes you more competitive when applying to grad school. Other than that it depends on the school.</p>

11

<p>OP, I take your original Q as asked to be off point:

[quote]
So my question is, what is your opinion on going to one of these expensive private schools for an undergraduate degree, since employers only care about a graduate degree anyway?[

[/quote]
</p>

<p>While my D is getting a fair amount of FinAid, I'm still paying a fair chunk of change, more than the total bill for a UC, for my D's education at a private school. At least directly, I don't care anything at all about what her potential future employer's think. I've come to the same conclusion that a lot of Ivy League profs have (if you judge by where their kids go to college) and that is where my D can get the best education <em>for her</em>. Period. No other considerations need apply.</p>

<p>Yes, the financial commitment is staggering and is the second-most expensive decision we'll ever make, after buying a house. </p>

<p>But the richness of the day-to-day experiences of my D, both in and out of the classroom, are far more than she could extract even by being pretty aggressive at a school such as, say, UCLA, or an Honors Program at, say U/Arizona.</p>

<p>Part of your question also transforms into the same question students ask in high school, is it better to get a "B" in AP's or an "A" in regular/honors, and the answer is get the "A" in AP's. Only in this case the answer is "shine brightly in a pool of ambitious, intellectual students."</p>

<p>The Honors College is an attempt by some larger public schools to create a more LAC-like environment to attract talented students. In some cases, the $$$$ differential is signficant, and if the $$ gap is an insurmountable concern, then choosing the Honors College is making the best of the situation. But on an absolute scale I don't think the two experiences are equivalent. As with many things, you may a price for buying "cheaper." </p>

<p>Finally, your mileage may vary.</p>

<p>Side note on the socioeconomic thing: many of my D's classmates are on Pell grants (lower income families) and on the other hand many many spend money as if it were water. We're far from either cluster and it's good for her to see both in the world.</p>

12

<p>
[quote]
So my question is, what is your opinion on going to one of these expensive private schools for an undergraduate degree, since employers only care about a graduate degree anyway?

[/quote]
</p>

<p>I think the OP's is mistaken here. While it is true that some careers require a grad degree that commonly you get right after college (law, for example), it is entirely possible to enter a good career without a grad degree. And even for programs like MBA's, you need work experience before grad school. And going to a good college undergrad, one that maintains good ties with its alums and has a good reputation, can aid greatly in getting a good job out of college.</p>

<p>BTW TheDad makes a great point about choosing a college for its own sake (or yours, to be more specific) rather than viewing it as simply a check-off item towards that grand career. For one thing, most students have only vague ideas of what many of the careers they've considered actually require and have little idea if they'd be happy in those careers. And there are just so many opportunities out there the average HS student has never even considered.</p>

13

<p>My take is a little different than most on this thread. I don't know if paying up for undergrad is worth it or not. I won't know until my kids are finished with college and I see what kind of education and experiences they received. Even then, I won't really know because they may have had exceptional experiences, at other, cheaper places. So maybe, since I am paying the money, I should pretend it is worth it. After all, the money is going...</p>

14

<p>Some people prefer private, more expensive universities over less expensive public ones.</p>

<p>In all honesty, at the undergraduate level, it doesn't matter that much. What does that much mean? Well, you have to attend a first tier state university for that to hold.</p>

<p>I live in Georgia, so I'll use it as an example. With hard work, you can definitely attend a top university for graduate study with a Georgia Tech undergraduate degree. It's not so easy with a degree from Kennesaw State.</p>

<p>Now, as others have said before, if you talk about graduate study, that's a whole different story. You better work hard to get into a top university for that graduate degree, or you will really regret it.</p>

15

<p>
[quote]
For one thing, most students have only vague ideas of what many of the careers they've considered actually require and have little idea if they'd be happy in those careers. And there are just so many opportunities out there the average HS student has never even considered.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Cheers and whistles.</p>

16

<p>hm, what about attending a state school for free? do you reccommend it?</p>

17

<p>It depends on the student, the student's goals, and the finances of the student and parent(s). I went to a UC, entirely self-financed through a combination of scholarships, grants, loans, and work. No other way was possible. Some say that it's a great way to build character; I believe there are better ways.</p>

18

<p>TheDad makes several very good points here. Priorities can be very different for each individual. We are paying a large chunk of change for our s's education, but the school he selected is a great fit for him. I addition to the excellent education and availability of faculty, he is extremely happy, comfortable, and has a great group of friends. To me that is worth every penny. He is the kind of kid that, even if he had gone to the honors program at our large university and been in small classes, the size of this institution, its heavy greek presence and rah rah sports focus would not have been the right environment for him. Could he have gotten a good education, found a circle of friends and been generally happy? Sure. Might he have been overwhelmed and had a harder time adjusting (as he tends to be a bit on the shy side)- possibly. And that just isn't worth it to me. How do you put a price on emotional well-being? If you look for in a college what is important to you, you can readily answer the question as to whether the cost is worth it. For many, cost is the major issue, and the thought of having a large student loan burden, or having to do work-study throughout school might be equally unpalatable. These are all valid concerns in selecting a college. One of the biggest differences in looking at the "expensive" undergrad schools is commonly the size of the institution. While there are a few public LACs, they are the exception rather than the rule. And if you are the type that will clearly do better, academically and emotionally, in a smaller school, than that is an important variable in selecting a school-- not just the prestige or the contacts made (though that always helps :) ). Many students will not choose to go on to grad school, so for them this is their one and only secondary education, and an "expensive" undergrad may be very well worthwhile.</p>

19

<p>jym626, if you don't midn me asking, what college did your son end up going to?</p>

20

<p>Colegebound-
Don't mind at all. He wanted a small environment, few core/distribution requirements, small classes, easy access to faculty and ,if he could avoid it, didn't want to have to take any more languages. He wanted a strong math/science school, and when he decided that he wanted to have engineering available to him, out went Williams and Amherst (formerly top contenders) and in came Rice. He really loved the idea of the Residential College system- it offers that supportive living environment, so no need for frats.And he loves the beautiful, enclosed campus-- it is in the city, but doesn't have city streets running through it. All of this was helpful in finding the "right" school. He absolutely loves Rice, and I am thrilled. Thanks for asking.</p>