<p>And Rice is a bargain compared to comparable schools.
I personally would find it hard to turn down going to a UC for free.
Veronique, you didn't mention the school, though. There are state schools and there are state schools. You can do a lot with a savings of $80,000-$160,000.</p>
<p>There are only a few state schools that can match up to top privates in terms of academics: Berkeley, Michigan, UNC, UVA, UTA, and Wisconsin. Also, keep in mind that the out-of-state tuition (and the ensuing lack of fin aid for out of state students) makes public universities as expensive as privates for a lot of people.</p>
<p>Dstark-
You are absolutely right-- Rice is a comparative "bargain"- its like getting 4 yrs of college for the price of 3. He could have gotten a virtual free ride at several places (our in-state, with the Hope Scholarship, is almost free, and he was a NM finalist, so was offered $$$ at several schools) but we were willing to pay for what was right for him. He did get some scholarship $$, but hardly a free ride. We are fortunate that we could manage to deal with the cost, which isn't true for everyone. Our #2 s., currently a HS freshman, is more likely to be interested in the bigger, party school type atmosphere. For him the Big Univ. Honors Program might be a good choice-- and we could use the tuition break by then!</p>
<p>One additional thought-- I believe what we are alluding to but not stating directly is the hope that our children will be successful in college -- and success is measured in many ways. For example, for a child with significant learning problems or dyslexia-- I might consider encouraging them to apply to Landmark College in Vermont. While it is known to be one of the most expensive colleges in the country (tuition, room & board is over $42K), it specializes in the education of LD/dyslexic students. It may be the "best fit" for a bright student that might otherwise struggle, and possibly fail elsewhere. Many students can succeed in many different environments-- others will blossom in a more "tailored" (for lack of a better word) environment. So, in many cases, the "point" of an expensive undergrad education is not just to put that elite college sticker in the back window of the car, but to provide in excellent educational opportunity for students who would flourish in these types of environments.</p>
<p>I've said it before on the legal forum, but it might be worth stating again. Professional schools, such as law school, medical school and business schools, look solely at the GPA and respective graduate admission's test-period! Thus, a 3.8 from Purdunk U will get into a better school than a 3.6 from Harvard, assuming similar test scores. Believe me, I know what I am saying too. If the grades and scores were the same then attending the top school might give the slight edge. </p>
<p>Thus, the answer is that if you are going on to graduate school or professional school, attend the school that will probably get you the highest grade point average.</p>
<p>However, if you are not going to a graduate school or you are going to a specialized program where undergraduate training is crucial (art, music,theater etc) then a good private school that specializes in your area might be the better choice. </p>
<p>Obviously other factors do come into play such as whether you want a school that is trade oriented vs pure intellectual oriented? Another criterion would be do you want a school with a good co-op or internship program?Also, if you want to major in subjects that the top schools doesn't offer, you don't have a choice; an example of this type of major would be accounting.</p>
<p>Finally, although state universities are much cheaper than their private school counterparts, not all state universities are equal. If you live in a state with a poor to mediocre state university system for your desired major,you may want to attend a private school.</p>
<p>Taxguy, you said:</p>
<p>"I've said it before on the legal forum, but it might be worth stating again. Professional schools, such as law school, medical school and business schools, look solely at the GPA and respective graduate admission's test-period! Thus, a 3.8 from Purdunk U will get into a better school than a 3.6 from Harvard, assuming similar test scores. Believe me, I know what I am saying too. If the grades and scores were the same then attending the top school might give the slight edge."</p>
<p>I don't completely agree. I'm not doubting your personal experiences or what you've been told. On the other hand, I have a relative and two friends who each have 10-20 years of experience as top admissions people (two at med schools, 1 at two different law schools, and all nationally known and highly ranked programs -- one in the top 5). These people have very different personal experiences. I've been consistently told that while the GPA number itself is indeed very important, the GPA number itself is far from determinative and is rarely used "as is." They've told me that they are consistently debating the "weighing" of GPA's amongst the different classes of undergraduate institutions (needless to say, there can be considerable debate about where a particular institution might reside on this "class" continuum and exactly how much to adjust via this weighing). I've also been told that the grade inflation factor IS taken into account (that is, the grades for students coming out of schools known for rampant grade inflation are adjusted downward, where students coming out of schools known for grade deflation and generally tough grading standards are adjusted upward). Finally, I've also been told that the specific undergraduate study area often has an affect as well. Because it's come up for specific people I know, MY contacts have told me that their schools are well aware that engineers, as one example, will almost always have lower GPA's than their liberal arts counterparts -- because these schools believe the rigorous nature of an undergraduate engineering program provides them with many of their top students, they do not simply compare engineering GPA's with liberal arts GPA's, because doing so would definitely be comparing apples and oranges, and would be devaluing the intensity of the engineer's undergraduate experience (an engineer might rank in the 95% of his engineering class with a 3.6, while that GPA might only be a 60th percentile rank for a liberal arts grad).</p>
<p>To be completely fair, I've heard each of my contacts say that of course MANY admissions committes do look at nothing other the GPA number itself and the relevant standardized test (with schools and programs being nothing more than a tie-breaker). However, my contacts go on to say that the existence of adcoms that take what they feel is an overly simplistic approach doesn't change the fact that many, many schools study admissions a little more completely and holistically, including, they claim, a disporportionate number of the so-called "top programs."</p>
<p>Anyway, this is simply what I've been told from contacts who I believe have loads of experience, credibility, and integrity. I present it solely as another view for any concerned about how certain undergraduate schools or programs might later affect their post-graduate plans.</p>
<p>Dudediligence, I don't doubt that most graduate and professional schools take somewhat of a holistic approach. However, regardless of what they tell you, I have clearly seen, and admission's officer friends have specifically told me, that a 3.8 from Purdunk U will have a better shot at top schools than a 3.6 from an ivy school ASSUMING similar rigor in majors and similar exam scores. Obviously, if someone majors in Phys Ed vs. engineering, this will be taken into account. However, absent such disparities, the GPA and test score is 90% and miscellaneous factors might be 10%.</p>
<p>My major was only offered as an interdisciplinary type at public universities. However, several private schools offered my major (Georgetown, where I'm 99% sure I'll be going next year has a whole school dedicated to it). I want to make sure my four years are put to good use...</p>
<p>Plus, internships were important to me...and location..and all schools in the DC area are private.</p>
<p>Establishing a network is always a plus, too. Plus, I needed to get out of California before I completely lost it.</p>
<p>~Taxguy~</p>
<p>Thanks for your response, but we clearly have different sources and a different opinion. As far as I can tell, I'm not working with "regardless of what they tell you" kind of information. My contacts are heads and second in command level people. They are the decision makers at some top institutions. I've known these people 30-40 years and they are relating their personal and direct experience as well as the anecdotal experience (as they know it) of admissions personnel at similarly situtated institutions.</p>
<p>Because we've had any number of people in the extended family (and friends) interested in this issue, I've asked the question in various ways over the years, eliminating "wiggle-room" to the extent possible. Without exception, I've been told that while SOME (even perhaps MANY) institutions use a straight grid of GPA number and test score (other factors being used as tie-breakers), MANY, MANY OTHER institutions (including their own) ALWAYS factor such things as quality of the undergraduate institution, grade inflation, course of study into the equation. Always. Not to break ties. Not as a small part of the equation. As a principal part of the process. Always.</p>
<p>At the concrete and specific level, they've said the exact opposite of what you (among many) contend. They've said a 3.8 biology major at Northern Illinois University (taking advantage of much less competition) would NOT have an advantage over a 3.6 biology major at Northwestern University -- MCAT's and other factors assumed identical. Similarly, a 3.7 biology major at Northwestern University would NOT have an advantage over a 3.5 electrical engineering major at Northwestern (where they understand that a 3.5 in engineering is perhaps MORE difficult to attain than a 3.7 in biology). I've heard similar stories in the law arena as well.</p>
<p>I'm fully aware that many believe exactly as you do. That's why I asked people who should know and have every reason to tell me the truth (for their institutions and for similar thinking institutions). When I've asked the further question about why ANY school would do such an admittedly simplistic admissions review (and they admit that SOME do), they claim that some schools simply don't have the admissions personnel (unlike a more fully staffed undergraduate admissions office) to do an adequate job of looking at the whole picture, but that many, many schools are staffed, funded, and take the admissions review process much more seriously.</p>
<p>We clearly have a difference of opinion here. For me, given the level of scrutiny that elite colleges give to undergraduate admissions, it seems counterintuitive, and quite frankly ludicrous, to believe that select institutions like medical schools and law schools admit based on rigid formulas. My "experts" tell me to rest assured that MOST top institutions don't (and that perhaps I should be careful of any institution that does).</p>
<p>Again, thanks for your reply, but reasonable people can differ. I'll leave it at that.</p>
<p>im faced with a similiar decision. I've had my heart set on going to skidmore for a long time, but the fact that I was admitted to SUNY binghamton makes for a hard situation. I want a small LAC because i feel that i will get an immeasurably better education at a school with small classes, a close-knit environment, and a flexible/no core curriculum. I feel that if i go to binghamton, I'll just be one student of many, and I cant become a prominent figure in the community. Unfortunately, i also know that if i chose skidmore, i'll be in massive debt upon graduation! I'm also having a difficult time finding out which school is considered better, and whether or not i even want to consider that as a factor. A different poster previously said that you cant put a price on happiness, which i agree with, but oh the troubles it may cause!</p>
<p>Nobody should put his or her parents in financial jeopardy to go to school. Nobody should put him or herself in financial jeopardy to go to school. Massive loans can be a big problem.</p>
<p>Donpon-
A slight correction. What I said was "how can you put a price on emotional well-being?" That is a tad different than putting a price on happiness. While not mutually exclusive, it is hard to be extremely happy and/or in mental health utopia with a huge debtload hanging over your head, unless you've had a lobotomy or something. I could be real happy driving a $150K Maserati, but I couldn't justify it financially. I guess the same analogy can be used in the college selection, to a degreee.
Oh well, I can dream about that maserati while I continue to tool around in my mommy-mobile (aka SUV/minivan thing).</p>
<p>yeah, i understand that. its sooo difficult because while yes, im a narcisistic now-thinking teenager, i also just feel that the kind of person i would become (based on the kind of people id be around) at a school like skidmore would be drastically different (and more to my liking) then how i would be coming out of binghamton. of course, the other option is attending suny geneseo, which has the small size of an LAC without the pricetag. I didnt want to have to fly to school, but maybe its the best option...</p>
<p>donpon11, I have heard food things about all three schools. Can you visit the SUNY schools?</p>
<p>Donpon-
Are you likely to get a financial aid package from Skidmore if you get in?? Seems to me you really can't yet weigh your options until you know that variable and can plug it into the equation. If you get great $$$ aid, and your tuition is not drastically more than what you'd pay for a SUNY school, then it may be worth the out-of-pocket expense. That said, SUNY Binghamton (Harpur) is a great school, and I am sure you'd get a great education there as well. Have you considered going for a weekend/overnight visit? That is a great way to get a feel for the school. Also, keep in mind that sometimes you can "negotiate" with the financial aid folks. If there are variables that the FAFSA forms dont adequately take into consideration,and you are a strong candidate that Skidmore wouldn't want to lose, sometimes they will take a second look at the package they are offering you. It can sometimes feel like you are buying a car-- that the actual pricetag is a bit of a moving target.
And yes, Saratoga Springs is a charming town-- just be sure not to put your tuition $$$ on the ponies! :)</p>
<p>Haha yes. To be honest, it was the shrimp scampi that I got at a local restaurant that convinced me more than just the ponies.</p>
<p>Skidmore gave me a rough estimate about how much aid I would get, and unfortunately it didnt help very much. After we got our estimate, my dad was on the phone with the head of financial aid for about an hour or so, and the guy told my dad that Skidmore just doesnt have a lot of money to offer, and even a called it among the poorest private schools in the northeast! My SATs are considerably higher than their 75%, but as they dont even offer any sort of merit aid, I dont know how much that is going to help. </p>
<p>I visited Binghamton in September, and to be completely honest I really really disliked it. Without it even being considered a big school (12 thousand), it was just wayyy too big for me. Everything seemed impersonal and almost sterile. It is not at all the kind of feeling I got when I went to skidmore, which just seemed so much more warm and lively.<br>
Furthermore, as I dont want to major in business anymore, I have even less of a reason to go to Binghamton since its school of management was among the more prominent factors in my contemplation.</p>
<p>So yes, I suppose Im going to have to just wait until the decision arrives with the aid information, and will keep my fingers crossed! Does anyone know how these schools are in terms of aid? Oberlin, Colgate, Connecticut College (didnt love), Bard?</p>
<p>Also, if Skidmore doesnt work out, does anyone know anything about Geneseo. Even though its admissions statistics are higher than Binghamtons, will it always be second banana among the SUNY schools?</p>
<p>Thanks everyone.</p>
<p>Try several of the LACS:
Franklin and Marshall, College of Wooster, Lafayette College, Dickinson</p>
<p>In addition, Lehigh and American U.</p>
<p>Forget Colgate for merit aid and Bard only gives merit to the top HS students.</p>
<p>I know what you mean about Binghamton.</p>
<p>Skidmore had the worst aid offer of my D's four LAC's. Fwiw.</p>
<p>If you look at areas outside of NY, your chances of aid go up.
Schools llike Goucher, Drew and Denison, for example.</p>
<p>10 more days and then im legal for lotto tickets, skidmore here i come $$</p>