<p>I'd love to hear people's experience with dual enrollment classes taught inside a public high school. In particular, have they been able to cover all of the material in one high school period per day during half of a high school year?</p>
<p>With all of the snow delays, standardized testing, etc, I estimate they would have less than 80 high school class periods of 50 minutes each to cover the material. </p>
<p>Meanwhile, the AP teachers say they have difficulty covering all of the material in 160 or so periods a year, particularly when kids are pulled out of class early for away sports games and other activities, etc. </p>
<p>My kids' urban public high school is emphasizing dual enrollment classes next fall for 11th and 12th graders. They are encouraging students to take up to TEN dual enrollment classes per year. Many school teachers were replaced as part of this program. The local community college is providing the instructors, who apparently will be part-time adjuncts. Some of these instructors may have never taught ANYONE before and may not have any training in education - the only requirement is a masters degree in the subject matter. </p>
<p>The school is keeping the current AP program with high school teachers, so the dual enrollment ends up being for students who are one step below AP level. </p>
<p>In my state, the in-state public colleges all accept the dual enrollment credits, while most selective private colleges do not. Therefore, the students aiming for more selective colleges are staying with AP, and not taking the dual enrollment offerings.</p>
<p>Your thoughts, please????</p>
<p>The benefits of dual-enrollment are best experienced in a college environment on a college campus. Your peers are almost all college students and the professors have expectations that they will behave and perform like college students. Students will have the freedom of college students and might even participate in some of the college activities on campus.</p>
<p>Some colleges will not accept dual-enrollment courses that are not conducted at the college campus.</p>
<p>You should determine whether the selective colleges that you’re interested in take dual-enrollment credits from universities that are taught on university campuses.</p>
<p>We researched these for my daughters and decided that dual enrollment at the high school simply wasn’t worth it. There would be no credit given at most colleges, and the possibility existed of messing up the GPA and rank since they were included in the high school transcript. My Ds both took AP courses, which are almost always accepted at a certain score. They also both took courses during high school at the local college on its campus with college students. They received huge benefit from that experience and all credits transferred. We found out in our search that the college offered a small number of seats for high school students meeting certain criteria (SAT scores/GPA) free of charge. I wouldn’t waste time with dual enrollment classes in the high school if there are AP options. Actually, I’d have my kids do an extracurricular activity, take a class just because it interests them, or even have some downtime because I think dual enrollment classes on high school campuses are the least beneficial uses of class periods.</p>
<p>I think it depends on the kids and the situation. My D attended a smallish private school that used dual enrollment where there were too few students to fill a HS class. She took Calculus 1 and Calculus 2 this way. (I think there were five or six students in the Calc classes … all very good students.) The HS gave credit against its math requirement, and her post-HS college gave transfer credit for the “previously taken college course.” So it worked out very well. YMMV.</p>
<p>The dual-enrollment thing certainly can work out for credit and grade purposes but the benefits of sitting with other college students and professors that are teaching mostly college students and the amenities and opportunities on campus provide real college experience and confidence in handling college because they have done it before.</p>
<p>A college professor coming on a high-school campus to teach high-school students may change her teaching approach for high-school students.</p>
<p>Ours worked out just fine. The dual credits taught in school had to meet every day, just like a hs class, as opposed to 3x a week at the college, so no loss of instructional time. The classes ended with an exam administered by the college offering the credit. And we found “most” colleges were fine with it. D1 is beginning next year 2 credits shy of sophomore standing. Thanks to some sequencing requirements, she won’t be done in 3 years, but 3.5 is definitely doable or she could add a minor. </p>
<p>For us, though, no way is de a step “below” AP. State dept of ed regs prohibit a school from offering a class for AP and de. So at my kids’ high school, calculus is de, stat is AP. The grade grubbers worried about their standing go AP. Physics is de, bio is AP, same situation. </p>
<p>My thoughts? What does the kid want? If she finds the course challenging and learns something, does it matter whether or not it’s AP?</p>
<p>Calc III, the highest math must be taken in our school district as a dual-enrollment class, and is taught on-line through our state flagship university. The class grades, assignments, and tests are under the auspices of the university, but the high school assigns a teacher to monitor the students - who must take the class in a regular class period - and to offer additional instruction and give assessments between the university tests. They say students do not have any issues with getting the credit accepted anywhere. If a student attends an in-state public university, then the grade counts as well.</p>
<p>However, the community college dual enrollment program is looked upon as in the OP’s case as less rigorous than AP courses. In-state public universities will accept the credit through transfer agreements with all in-state CCs, but it’s a gamble if am out-of-state university will. The classes are taught in a building leased by the school district and only our district’s students attend.</p>
<p>For kids who know they will have to/want to go in-state, the CC dual enrollment can save them money. For others who haven’t taken any AP classes, taking the dual enrollment senior year can give them a different challenge without overwhelming them in AP courses filled with students who might be much stronger academically.</p>
<p>Thanks for responding everyone.</p>
<p>Just to re-re-emphasize, anyone considering a Dual Enrollment class should research in advance whether the colleges where they intend to apply will accept it. The policies vary greatly.</p>
<p>They do vary greatly, Charilieschm, from college to college and it depends on the program. My son did dual enrollment this year. His college classes were taken at a full fledged university along with other college students, however, not at his school, and the college was a selective one. There are schools that have that sort of arrangement, and from what I am told, are favorably assessed. Taking community college courses, uuuum. Depends. Depends on a lot of things. Also, any programs that a high school has in place depends so much on individual factors.</p>
<p>The best way to assess the value is to look at the past record of the program. Are top colleges taking kids who are doing well in such courses and which schools have given the kids credit for such courses? There are times a college will just let you take a test for such a course and let you start at a higher level but not give you actual college credit for it. These days, most schools only give college credit for 4s and 5s on the AP, and they scrutinize the community college courses very carefully and have to match them with a college course to give credit for them. </p>
<p>In my son’s case, he was actually enrolled and treated as a student at the college,and the transcript had to be treated totally separately.</p>
<p>Yes, AP credit varies greatly from college to college. From what I have read, most public colleges give credit for a 3. Most selective colleges require a 4. </p>
<p>My son’s university and some Ivies require a 5 in several subjects in order to get credit. My son’s university also will not give AP credit for chem labs, which I understand is also the policy of some med schools. Some colleges give 2 courses worth of credit for some tests, while others only give one course. </p>
<p>There are some colleges that allow huge amounts of total AP credit, while others are very strict in the maximum amount that can be earned.</p>
<p>These differences in AP credit can make a huge difference in the comparable affordability of colleges. One semester of AP credit can be equal to thousands and thousands of dollars.</p>
<p>I took dual enrollment courses both in my high school, on the community college campus, and online. I don’t know what the situation will be like at your kids’ school, but at mine, dual enrollment courses taught at the high school were subject to the high school’s schedule and if there wasn’t enough time to teach something on the syllabus, that information wasn’t taught. Of course, many of these courses were AP courses and the dual enrollment was only an option-it cost $180 per class for the credit while classes run by the community college were free.</p>
<p>I started out taking a lot of AP courses and then switched to taking a mixture of AP and dual enrollment courses (my state allows students to take a full schedule of high school and a full schedule of college courses if they wanted so a student could technically take up to 2 full time equivalent course loads per year). I conducted my college search and applied to colleges based on who would accept my college credit. I ended up choosing an OOS public school which accepted all 75+ semester hours of my AP and dual enrollment credits, most of which counted towards courses required for my major. I will be able to triple major and get a masters degree in 4 years, but could have graduated in 2.5 years with a double major and no masters degree.</p>
<p>Your family’s situation would be better if the dual enrollment courses were taught on the community college campus and open to all of the college’s students. I know that my high school had very limited dual enrollment options at the high school itself, particularly since the courses were taught by high school teachers with supplemental pay from the community college rather than by adjuncts.</p>
<p>I really like the idea of having top high school students graduate with an associates degree, even though most colleges aren’t set up to accept these students. I had multiple schools tell me that they would not recognize any associates degree I earned while a high school student and that really turned me off to a large number of schools. When taking dual enrollment classes, your kids will legally be college students just like those attending the community college after graduating from high school.</p>