Experienced Posters: Help Me Not Mess Up In Guiding My Kid Through The Next Three Years.

You’ve gotten a lot of good advice. I would add: don’t look to rush your child through HS in three years instead of four. Your child is much more likely to have a merit-worthy application after a full four years.

I also second the recommendation for Art of Problem Solving mathematics courses.

The other thing that needs to happen right away is for your child to build wonderful relationships with teachers, hopefully in multiple classes with at least a few of them.

@compmom Yikes. Glad to hear you found a course progression resolution. Will check out that link. Kid started discussing their building goals at 10; since they seemed reasonable - why not? They could change. Then again, when your kid tells you something, believe them. Note: no pressure on the kid to be a doctor/lawyer/accountant/software engineer. Not into bio at all. Into math, physics. Mechanical engineering seems logical.

@powercropper This thread is to avoid talking much about college with the kid - and instead with you fine folks. The student burnout factor is real and frankly awful. Yet top scholarship-winning kids are doing incredible things. My solution? Lean, plan, execute. My kid won’t know the many paths or opportunities available - what kid does? I can find them, they can choose what to pursue.

There are no dream schools here - okay, not entirely true. Mudd’s President’s Scholars Program would be the dream and the fit. Complete long shot. But - why not this kid? This thread is to build options and support - since the school really can’t, sourcing outside options is crucial.

The main reason graduating in three years at 16 is on the table is because this is a lonely kid who reaches out, but is not part of the cool kids at school. Socially, no bullying, but a dearth of deep friendships. Combined with few truly inspiring on-campus experiences. This is not a bad school at all. But the top elite high schools (public or private) are next-level.

The kid is already a good kid (arguably better than me). There has to be more out there for them - intellectually, socially, emotionally.

@shuttlebus Re: AOPs. Would love to consider online courses; they are in the pricey-but-worth-it category. Are the books a reasonable substitute? The main question is what courses/levels to pick: the kid has done Int. Math Ad. I, II & III. Doing further classes or book study to deepen their skills is something the kid absolutely would benefit from. Have no idea of what level they should be in, or what courses are important.

@chmcnm Yes. I liken parenting to running a marathon at wind-sprint pace. Thing is, we need to be on the right course; without that, there is no relaxing and glory in showing up at the wrong finish line. The kid needs to pursue what interests them, and not take themselves out of the running for schools that are the right fit. Since this kid is at a campus that has NONE of the standard STEM/leadership clubs or opportunities it’s a double-edged sword. Their application will be unique, but it also has to make sense.

@thealternative - I would describe my financial situation as similar to yours - donut hole in California. All three of my sons were accepted to UC programs (Irvine, UCLA). In each case, we found an alternative that was more cost effective. We had to balance fit and financial feasibility. The two schools I have the most experience with are Arizona State and Notre Dame. Both schools have strong Engineering programs.

I was shocked during the application process that my NMF kids did not get into highly selective school. Now that I have read more here on CC, I understand the 6-10% acceptance rate. Unless you have a hook like under represented minority or an extremely compelling life story, the chances of getting into an MIT, Cal Tech, HYPSA are next to zero. A common theme with all these schools is need-based aid that exceeds most state schools.

There are plenty of strong engineering programs out in the world. ASU helped some with my oldest. The aid brought his cost down to ‘in state’ levels. He was able to graduate in 4 years even though he changed his major 3 times. My second son to attend ASU is a NMF. That qualified him for 100% tuition for 4 years. He will graduate with a Masters in Computer Science in 4 years. Even though ASU has a ‘party school’ reputation, I feel it is a great option to the UC’s that would have cost $30k+ per year. And, there is no guarantee that you can get through in 4 years.

Notre Dame is an example of how a private, selective school is different than the large publics. The school is unapologetically Catholic. That said, there is not a push to convert non-catholics. The part of the process that surprised me was Financial Aid. Notre Dame has their own formula for aid. The MSRP, as I call it, for ND is around $72k per year. Unlike a UC school, ND will meet need even if the family makes up to $250k per year. The second aspect of Notre Dame that surprised me was the culture. The “Hall” system plays a huge role in the life of students at ND. My son that is there is normally fairly quiet. He has said several times in the past 6 months, I miss my guys (his Hall). The added identity has really helped him feel apart of something larger than himself. He would not have the same sense of community at ASU. He has friends at UCLA, USC, UC Irvine and Cal Poly. Unless the friend is involved in marching band, they do not have the depth of friendship he has experienced at ND.

Every student’s journey to college is different. The best advice I can give, make sure your student knows the stakes. Every grade in high school will count. All the tests, PSAT, ACT and SAT will most likely count. The essays in the applications will count (more than ever if schools stop looking at tests). There will be a time to discuss the tests and the essays. Do your best to help them build experiences that will serve as a foundation for their story.

@thealternative -

AoPS - go to their site and your son can take the “are you ready for this” and “do you need this” assessments to see where you are. I doubt any of us can answer without knowing what your district calls “Math N”. :slight_smile:

Graduating early - here are some reasons I think you should not pursue this.
Note - these are all reasons about achieving your stated goals; I’m not going to address what is best for your son’s mind/body/heart/self:

  1. your son will be competing with people who have had 4/3 as much time/effort to make connections, develop socially, win awards, get good letters of recommendation, find summer opportunities/research/internships, and participate in ECs
  2. with excellent academic ability, your son can finish enough AP subjects by the end of junior year to get those scores (and possibly SAT 2 scores) on his applications
  3. especially for a student who is a bit less outgoing, the fourth year is critical for social/emotional development, and colleges will suss out good social/emotional development in admissions

You’ve already gotten great advice but I also wanted to add that you can’t predict what a middle schooler’s HS experience is going to be. So much maturing happens in HS. My D went from a shy, quiet, nerdy type person who I would also have described as not being bullied, but no close friendships, to a self assured young person who emerged as a leader in her school, a thespian (never in a million years would have I predicted that), and someone who had a small but mighty friend group that really had each others back. She really hated middle school but HS was totally different and she really enjoyed the whole experience. The person she was at 14 was totally different than who she was at 16, 17, etc… She blossomed in HS. You might be very surprised that your child ends up finding their people in HS.

There are also plenty of ECs to do outside of school. The arts, volunteering, working, etc… Your school shouldn’t be the limiting factor. (And don’t discount the value of just a “regular” summer job). Many communities also have summer STEM enrichment that is very affordable, if not free. If you child is a girl, SWE (Society of Women Engineers) runs a host of events for HS students. Also look into competitions that are being held in the community. My D did a bunch of robotics stuff at other schools.

Your child needs 4 years of math, english, science, history, and foreign language. If they can reach calculus before graduation awesome. 1 of the science courses should be AP (for a mech e, AP physics C would be the most helpful for when they get to college). Your child doesn’t need to specialize in HS. They need their core courses. If there are STEM electives at school, that’s a bonus if they can fit into the schedule without bumping one of the core subjects.

Lastly, your child will be assessed within the context of their school. If there aren’t a lot of AP courses offered, they won’t be penalized for that.

I can empathize with being a planner but it’s a long road ahead and you need to let your child be a child too. I would be less worried about your child’s path and more with trying to save a bit more money every month for college.

Looks like the student in question can take calculus, Spanish year 4, and French year 4 in 9th grade (and may have the opportunity to go beyond that later in high school), so math and foreign language appear to be covered. As far as physics is concerned, it may be worth considering taking calculus-based physics for physics and engineering majors through dual enrollment at a local college, since such courses tend to be more math intensive and may be better accepted (at least at UCs) for transfer credit, compared to AP physics C.

But it looks like the student is at a more typical level in English, history and social studies, and other sciences (biology and chemistry). Note that UCs and CSUs (and some other colleges) require a year of high school visual or performing arts (or a 3 semester unit college art course) for frosh admission, so be sure to include that in the high school schedule.

With four years to go before the student goes to college, consider your financial planning now.

Remember that college costs tend to go up, and economic downturns can lead to spikes in tuition (or, more stealthily, less money given out in scholarships and financial aid, affecting the bottom line net price but not the headline top line list price).

If you can afford a UC comfortably with money to spare (to cover the risk of cost increases), then that is helpful. If a suitable one is in commute range, that is even more helpful, at least as a backup. CSUs have lower list prices, so they could be an option, but are more pre-professionally oriented, so they may be less suitable if the student wants to prepare for PhD study, or major in math as an already highly advanced student.

Parental money is most students’ primarily limitation on college choice. If you can make this less of a limitation for your student, so that your student’s own interests and achievements have more to do with determining the college destination, that can open up more options to allow for a better academic and non-academic fit than would be possible if money limits the choice to very few options.

My kids were homeschooled and used all of the AoPS textbooks from algebra on up. One of my kids took the classes, but my other kids worked through the books on their own as the online evening classes interfered with their extracurricular activities.

I would start with the Introduction to Counting & Probability class. If you didn’t want to take the class, your son could work through the books on his own and supplement with AoPS Alcumus program, which was free when my kids were younger (not sure if it is still free or not.)

My kids are/were all math/CS double majors and AoPS gave them a great foundation.

Good luck to you and your son.

@thealternative, I love your posts. Glad you are the one asking us “fine folks” to spare your son from thinking about college as yet :slight_smile:

My kid loved to build and spent any available waking hours doing Legos as a younger kid. He is a software engineer now and likens writing code/programming to building, with binary decisions along the way.

Outside of our mediocre high school, he did theater lighting and worked with some dance companies operating the lighting board. I arranged, at one point, for him to have a tour of the local cable tv station, after having one myself. He ended up doing camera work for them. He did a bunch of techie projects for teachers at the school. Etc .

He was bullied so badly in 7th grade that I took him out for 6 months. High school was totally different: he had a great group of about 10 close friends who he still sees years later.

ps My favorite engineering school was Olin, as competitive as MIT, project based, small, and at the time tuition free. You might want to look at it.

In the American admissions system, sure (though for UC’s, it seems that only every class sophomore and junior years will count).

For the UK (and many other places in Europe), it mostly or completely comes down down to AP tests.

For UCs, all high school and college classes count, but only grades from 10th and 11th grade count for the purpose of recalculating GPA (but all grades are visible to admission readers).

Good suggestion with Olin, @compmom. Cooper Union is similar (tiny; limited majors, half-tuition scholarship so tuition comes out to around $25K/year, though COL in NYC is sky-high). Webb Institute is tuition-free (but even tinier and even more limited in major).

With privates like these, APs (with high scores) likely carry more weight than DE.

@roycroftmom @bouders Thanks for the thoughts on Canadian requirements - when did popular engineering schools start requiring ECs, essays and interviews? Waterloo is a strong school - not sure which major ones would be best for MechEng. Re: dual citizenship and border crossing - let’s just say that your thoughts on that isn’t everyone’s reality, unfortunately.

Re: DE and grade permanence - agreed.

@fretfulmother Thanks for the AOPs suggestion. The kid has some good teacher relationships that can continue at this school.

@Twoin18 Yes, there are definitely potentially contradicting objectives here. Will explain why later - my posts are already too damn long! Kid does not lack ECs, though; just haven’t gotten around to discussing them.

Correct about the UCs; although kid’s school is so small that they don’t register on that link (thanks for that!). Only a couple of graduates head there per year. Any info about other difficult-to-find/earn scholarships is welcome, although there aren’t many and surely will be impacted in the future.

@thealternative
We are in CA and my D is taking Math 3 plus. It covers trigonometry and prepares kids for Calculus. She’s taking AP Calc AB next year.

Like you I am a fervent planner who has used CC as a lifeline. Don’t apologize! I think it’s very smart to understand the college landscape to help your kid… When my daughter started high school I explained to her about her school’s graduation requirements as well as UCs A-G requirement.s. We sketched out a tentative and rigorous 4-year plan. At the end of 9th grade she met with her counselor (one of few times in her large urban high school) who confirmed the courses as planned would be classified “most rigorous…”

This year a couple of things changed - biggest was planned elective. If she wants to slow down, fine, but she understands that if she wants to apply to competitive schools, this is her path. I don’t want her to enter her senior year wanting to apply to a particular school and find she does not meet their academic requirements.

I understand your son is well ahead in math and FL but top tier colleges are looking for rigor in all subjects. Take a look at what Mudd looks for to guide you.

Are you not considering CA publics?

Read this. It will give you excellent perspective on the whole process, start to finish.
http://talk.qa.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/2188340-the-original-average-excellent-student-graduates-today.html#latest

@thealternative - I’m a bit confused. Instate UC’s seem like a perfect fit. Are you not interested in UC’s? If not interested, why?

Also, your child seems to be doing very well in school, so I would focus on ECs. It sounds like his school is lacking in ECs, but it would be great if he had at least one EC connected to HS. Perhaps a sport for 4 years. There are ECs outside of HS that can work too. Maybe volunteering or something like the boy scouts. I think the value in ECs for high academic kids is to show they have social skills and are more than just book smart.

@thealternative I was also the researcher for my 2 kids during their college journey. With their permission, I went hunting for merit scholarships and then drove them to schools to let them tour and get a feel for different types of colleges.

Researching and laying out options is a great path, and I commend you for realizing your public school has some limitations for your child.

If your child still doesn’t click with other students in high school, DE is an option to get them off campus for part or all of their school day.

@thealternative I PM’ed you

Maybe. Engineering programs because of their professional nature are more expensive (sometimes close to double the cost of Arts & Sciences tuition) and very few schools give any meaningful merit scholarships. I would cost it out.

The other consideration is where the op’s student intends to live/work post graduation. If they attend school in Canada but intend on working in the U.S. I would check into seeing what the accreditation process to become a professional engineer is (not saying that it is a problem only that there might be more hoop jumping).

My nephew applied to Waterloo SE this year. Top student, in a French Immersion program, many meaningful EC’s including leadership positions in both sports and STEM club, employment experience, articulate and well spoken, fantastic kid. Didn’t get an offer.