<p>Say–</p>
<p>There is not one Ivy league player on this list:</p>
<p><a href=“http://www.socceramerica.com/article/39344/soccer-america-womens-preseason-all-americans.html[/url]”>http://www.socceramerica.com/article/39344/soccer-america-womens-preseason-all-americans.html</a></p>
<p>Though Ali, an ACC player, is on the list, as are several stanford athletes.</p>
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<p>Then how can you make such silly posts. I also know girls who have played on the team and know some of the pros from previous years. If you have this knowledge then you know that NC alone produces a huge percentage(though less today) of the pool and the rest come from just a handfull of schools. Yes if you are good enough for the national team you will not go to the ivies. This however is a far cry from say that the ivies don’t compete successfully in major D1 sports. The truth is that many high IQ girls/parents quickly realize that there is nothing of value in pro women’s soccer and the injury rate is horrific. Bus drivers earn more than “pro” women’s soccer players in most cases. The current “Pro” league is probably going to fail since the sport is relatively uninteresting since the top local 16-18 yo boys club teams can beat them.</p>
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<p>I never said that. </p>
<p>I said that most elite athletes in the United States do not go to the Ivies.</p>
<p>I said that the few who do go to the Ivies are academically qualified to be there.</p>
<p>I said there are other teams which are more attractive to elite athletes.</p>
<p>The list of All Americans happens to contain those teams for women’s soccer.</p>
<p>LaCrosse and Hockey are not good examples since almost every D1 team in LaCrosse is east of the Mississippi, and since there are only 58 D1 Hockey programs in the US and 60 major junior programs in Canada, and it is anyone’s best guess who has most of the best hockey players there.</p>
<p>Anyway, good luck to you. </p>
<p>I think you want me to say that the Ivy’s are one of the “best” D1 leagues and I’m just not going to say that. Sorry.</p>
<p>Athletes receive the greatest admission preference…why…because we value sports. Advertisers pay the most for ads aired during the superbowl…</p>
<p>I am not giving an opinion on whether it is right or wrong.</p>
<p>poetgrl don’t you realize that your post supports my argument. The entire squad is composed of players from just a few schools and in some prior years almost 1/2 the team came from just NC. In fact I’m not sure we really disagree if you are claiming that no one from the ivies makes the national team but you did not say that. Keep in mind that each of those colleges on your list carry 30 players on the roster and very few of them make it either. Some girls in the ivies could be on those rosters but they have chosen differently for a variety of reasons. I assume you have read the book Warrior Girl? Every parent of a girl club player should read this carefully before pushing their child since unlike boys sports there is no meaningful pro career path even for the best. I have been through the process as well and have many friends with daughters playing D1 soccer around the country. </p>
<p>[Player</a> Bio: Anson Dorrance - NORTH CAROLINA OFFICIAL ATHLETIC SITE](<a href=“http://tarheelblue.cstv.com/sports/w-soccer/mtt/dorrance_anson00.html]Player”>http://tarheelblue.cstv.com/sports/w-soccer/mtt/dorrance_anson00.html)</p>
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<p>No matter how hard a parent “pushed” a kid, they couldn’t “push” them into a position to make these choices. Kids who go this direction with this level intensity often do so inspite of, not becuase of, their parents preferences.</p>
<p>Anson is a strange, strange guy. But his book about coaching girls should be required reading for those who don’t understand the difference between the way girls respond to coaching and boys do.</p>
<p>I don’t really know why you continue to argue with me. (or me, you, I suppose. :D) We’re talking at cross purposes.</p>
<p>Wow poetgrl now you have jumped to the most elite athletes and I can only assume next you will move to olympians. The ivies are filled with incredibly good athletes and occasionally a few even make the NFL. Do you consider ND football to be big time? They no longer challenge for National Titles because they changed their admission to more like ivies and the program has never been the same. The ivies compete quite successfully with most colleges that give full athletic scholarships and that is quite a good level of success. Only a tiny percent of college athletes make any real pro rosters and using this as the standard is disingenuous.</p>
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<p>A standard for what? disingenious of what?</p>
<p>My point is simply that the Ivies are not competing for top athletes “at any cost.” They very much require academic standards are met. There are also students, regardless of IQ, or maybe because of IQ, who realize that playing athletics at this level requires such an intense committment they could not do that level of academic work at the same time.</p>
<p>The students who do this, IMHO, are stunningly gifted.</p>
<p>poetgrl I’m not sure even you know what point you are trying to make. A thread focused on D1 athletics makes sense on a CC thread but a thread discussion of the tiny fraction of girls good enough for the national pool is irrelevant on this thread. As for boys if they really want to play pro the best way is to go to europe at 14-15 and forget about college.</p>
<p>Poetgirl,
There are many students who are multitasking. They are all hard working. To say that a student who plays a sport is gifted compared to the others…is a bit of a stretch.</p>
<p>testtaker–</p>
<p>A student who plays D1 athletics, which requires a significant time actually away from the classroom in order to meet the committment, and does Ivy academics at the same time, is stunningly gifted compared to a student who plays D1 in the SEC, where tutors and all sorts of academic support are provided to them. </p>
<p>Say: I know exactly what point I am trying to make. I made the same point with my daughter when she began to be recruited by the Ivy schools. She isn’t a strong enough student to do both and she and I both know this. She will have to choose. Many have to choose.</p>
<p>I happen to think that this is a relevent pont to this thread, whether or not you agree.</p>
<p>ETA: Testtaker: it occurs to me that you believe I think the athletes at the Ivies are somehow MORE gifted than the other students there. Sorry if this is the impression I’ve given. I think the Ivies have some tremendously gifted kids all around, all of whom are incredibly hard workers as well as naturally bright and none of whom “merely” did academic work. Just to clarify.</p>
<p>I’m with testtaker in that I have no idea what point you are making. Do you really think the workload is easy at Stanford,Duke,NU,ND,GT,Vanderbilt,Rice or Davidson. The fact is most D1 athlete don’t get the best possible grades but the grad schools are well aware of the time committment and make allowances for D1 athletes if they apply. And many of them take more than four years. You are also fogetting the rampant well known grade inflation present in many ivies. Over half the class is graduating with honors etc. Getting B’s in many ivies is not very hard. Many of the schools in my list have far more rigorous grading.</p>
<p>Are you saying you think the Ivies should stop recruiting athletes?</p>
<p>Because the only thing I think you are saying, up to now, is that the Ivy is a top athletic league. Now you are saying something else, entirely.</p>
<p>Are you saying you believe that the athletes at the Ivies are or are not qualified to be there? </p>
<p>All I’m saying is that they are, and that they make that choice based on academic ambitions and not athletic ambitions.</p>
<p>But, this is getting repetitive, so I’m done.</p>
<p>poetgrl again I don’t see the point you are making. Let’s start again. Outside of football and basketball the ivies are fully competitive against scholarship D1 schools in almost very sport. They are rarely the very best team but most of their players were recruited by many other D1 schools. The ivies recruit heavily in almost every sport and they are competitive with students because of the quality education and the great FA packages that rich Ivies can provide. In most non-revenue sports full athletic scholarhips are rather rare and most “scholaships” are partial and often amount to only a rather small amount of money that is often exceeded by the FA award offered by the ivies if the familiy makes under 250k and even better if under 150k. So if the athlete gets a likely letter from Harvard and the parents make 100k Harvard will give them a 35-40k FA award which is very competitive with any scholarship offer. The students are just making a rational choice and most are not losing any money by going to the ivies.</p>
<p>They are not competitive in running or swimming against D1 scholarship schools.</p>
<p>Yes, individual runners/swimmers may place high in NCAAs and may have been recruited by scholarship schools, but those are the exception.</p>
<p>Yes at the very top but those are specialized sports dominated year in and year out by a small group of schools. The proper measuring stick is the top 50-60 universities and they are competitive in most sports with most schools. This isn’t really open to subjective analysis. If you go look at the NCAA tournament in most sports you will find ivy schools; lacrosse, soccer,water polo, hockey etc. Again I don’t want to sound rude but you don’t really know what your talking about. Check out the NCAA Cross Country from last week. Princeton finished 12th againt the nation. That is very competitive by any measure. </p>
<p>[Princeton</a> Men Earn Program-Best 12th Place at the 2010 NCAA Cross Country Championships : The Ivy League](<a href=“http://www.ivyleaguesports.com/sports/mxc/2010-11/releases/NCAA_XC_Championships]Princeton”>http://www.ivyleaguesports.com/sports/mxc/2010-11/releases/NCAA_XC_Championships)</p>
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lol. And I don’t mean to sound rude but you really have no clue of how to disagree agreeably. It’s a skill and it would serve you well to learn it. Otherwise folks will never take you seriously. Again, not to be rude. Just sayin’. ;)</p>
<p>Ok I see your point and I might have worded it better. But on e mail things are prone to sound differently than intended. But I come from a very sports oriented famliy and all of my four children have competed at a high level and my son’s best friend was a ranked cross country middle distance runner. He was recruited at ives and other D1’s as well as other friends in many other sports. I just would suggest that the posters at least bother to check the ranking of the various sports in the NCAA site for the past few years before just posting their own subjective views. The objective rankings tell the story. By the way in my business people are taken seriously(or not) based on whether their arguments/advice/analysis are actually correct.</p>
<p>SAY. Maybe you should change your name to “READ” or maybe “LISTEN” for a while. 
MOWC’s son was a recruited Ivy League runner. She does, in fact, know what she is talking about. </p>
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<p>BTW, in my world, success is not just about what you “know”, but how clearly and persuasively you can present what you “know” to others who may not want to hear it. And (again, not to be rude) but the “argument” you have presented here is virtually opaque. Combine that with the lack of tact present in your writing style and Voila!! Instant thread squabbling of no import. JMO.</p>
<p>I wouldn’t use Water Polo as an example as it’s dominated by the West Coast schools. Schools like USC, UCLA, Cal and Stanford dominate Men’s and Women’s. The only reason the Ivies even make the final tourney is an automatic bid. If it were determined by the best teams only, it would be ALL West Coast schools.</p>
<p>Yes there are sports where they Ivies compete on an elite basis, but at many they do not. I define elite as competing for a national championship with players with professional or national team aspirations.</p>
<p>As far as topic, it’s not surprising and nothing to get worked up about. Top schools are looking for a top class, so of course they are looking for outstanding scientists, writers, musicians and athletes. The US college system is fairly unique in that it values athletics, and has for a very long time. However, I know students at schools that have top music programs don’t have to have the same stats that engineers have, rather they have to be gifted at the discipline to which they apply.</p>