<p>My son is finishing sophomore year. He's in all accelerated at one of the top high schools in the country. His last report card had an A in AP Euro, and A+ in everything else. He has never brought home a B. Though he has two more years, I expect him to graduate with unweighted GPA over 3.9, including 7-8 AP classes. SAT will be next year, but with his smarts I expect extremely high scores. He is currently in the second year of Project Lead the Way (which he loves), a 4 year engineering program affiliated with RIT. By the time he graduates, I would say that academically he should qualify for just about any school. He has his eye on the Ivies, MIT, and the like.</p>
<p>That brings me to EC activities. He made the Spanish Honor Society (if that counts). He plays JV basketball and volleyball, and will make varsity for one or both. A bit of charity stuff, but nothing noteworthy. Will this be enough to merit serious consideration from the top schools? What else should he consider?</p>
<p>I would always say that a student headed for these schools should have a job as well as valuable ECs and valuable volunteer work. The valuable part means it should be geared toward his real interests. The adcoms at these schools see kids with great GPAs and SAT scores as well as many APs. This alone will not make him stand out in the admissions process. Has he taken part in any competitions? MIT is very interested in this type of kid as is Cornell. I can only speak for those schools.</p>
<p>What makes one stand out for Ivy admission is doing extraordinarily well in ECs. This means having a deep visible commitment to them and having major achievements in them such as having statewide or national recognition or doing something extraordinary at the local level. For example, leading a campaign to raise the funds and volunteers to build a Habitat for Humanity house could make a student a standout in admissions. Similarly, being the captain or MVP of a state championship team could help an applicant stand out.</p>
<p>momma-three- Many kids heading for highly selective schools do not have jobs. High level athletes really can’t handle a high school job AND the practice schedule of the sport. Boarding school kids seldom have jobs during the school year. You have do do SOMETHING at a pretty intense and recognized level to stand out- I agree with that.<br>
The OP’s child sounds very bright and accomplished but one of many similar applicants for the highly selective schools.</p>
<p>Since you say he has done some charity work, I wanted to suggest that if he were to take the lead in a charity project, that would be great. Perhaps he can think of something that ties into his interests in Spanish, basketball, or volleyball. Here are some outstanding examples
[Prudential</a> Spirit of Community 2010: High School Honorees](<a href=“http://spirit.prudential.com/view/page/soc/14785]Prudential”>http://spirit.prudential.com/view/page/soc/14785)
but stepping it down a notch, you might also look at some of the Eagle Scout (or Gold Award) projects that have been done in your area for ideas. </p>
<p>It would be helpful for him to lead a project in an area he is particularly interested in.</p>
<p>When we talk about EC’s that stand out at HYP, we are talking about state or national level success, not JV volleyball. Not that there is anything wrong with playing JV sports or anything else that your son likes to do. My point is, actually, that the lower Ivies (Cornell and Penn) do take high GPA/high test score students with few ECs. HYP, on the other hand, are looking for so much more. Your son may have enough, or may not, but don’t have him change his life for a speculative chance at HYP.
MIT is actually interested in athletes who are otherwise qualified; he should emphasize that if he is willing to play for the school. In general, though, most male athletes who play at college will have been playing their sport year round on a travel teams by sophomore year.</p>
<p>MIT coach just screwed over someone I know. Coach basically promised a tip. Kid was completely qualified even without the sport and didn’t get in. Coach probably wanted to use the tip on a lesser-qualified athlete. Kid got into Wharton off the waitlist, fortunately.</p>
<p>Ivy admissions are hard to predict. I think the best ECs develop naturally out of a child’s interests. The kind of kid that ends up at Ivy caliber institutions is usually the kind of kid who has time to both excel academically and find time to do other stuff on the side without breaking a sweat.</p>
<p>From our school for Harvard/Yale/MIT:
Kid A - Eagle Scout, Intel finalist, Davidson scholar, medals at state level Science Olympiad. track team
Kid B - medals at state level Science Olympiad, on a team that made it to nationals for Academic Team, freelance and volunteer work in computer programming with letters of recommendation praising him for working at a graduate level in the field, no sports.
Kid C - Science research, many Science Olympiad medals, no sports
Kid 4 - State level orchestra, jazz band, rock band, theater takes extra music and theater classes for a music and theater designation on the high school diploma.</p>
<p>The lesser Ivy kids were far more ordinary, but even they tended to do things. They weren’t just members of clubs - they participated in clubs that did things.</p>
<p>I agree with all that was said here, Ivy success comes from not just being in ECs, but being at the top level of those ECs state-wide or nationally, and also of course being a leader in the local club. If it’s an EC without a competition structure (like volunteering or community based activism or something along those lines) then the student should show leadership in creating programming for the EC that benefits their school or their community. So someone who belonged to Spanish Honors Society for example, might think about setting up a penpal or video exchange with students in a spanish speaking country, and maybe organizing an in person student exchange to that country a year or two down the road. </p>
<p>BUT I also agree that these activities should 100% arise from the student’s interest. Don’t push your kid to be a varsity athlete or the president of a club or a community organizer if that’s not what they want to do. You can’t engineer an Ivy student, and Ivy admissions officers can tell a mile away when a kid is being pushed too hard to do stuff they’re not itnerested in. It shows in the interview, it shows in the grades and the activities. </p>
<p>Best advice is to suggest things to your kid if you see opportunities, but otherwise let things develop naturally. You dont’ want their grades to drop because they’re feel a lot of pressure to be the “super student”. There are lots of amazing top schools out there for a kid with amazing grades and not as intense ECs.</p>
<p>I recommend that your son commit himself to ECs that he is truly interested in rather than trying to sculpt a resume. The odds for every qualified candidate are too low for a kid to waste their HS years on something they are not really in to. My D just completed her freshman year at Harvard. Yes, there are many kids with exceptional ECs, but there are also many with “just” the normal profile of ECs that you see amongst those that aspire for a top 20 (or 50) school. What HYPS want to see is that your ECs are truly important to you so that they can get a sense of what you will contribute to the class that they are trying to assemble. If you are just resume building and not truly passionate about your ECs, then that will probably show through in your essays and certainly in your interview.</p>
<p>The kid ten houses down from mine turned down Harvard who had no ECs, clubs, volunteer activities other than math, math and more math. Another from the same school got in at Harvard with nothing but music, music and more music. A third kid, who is a legacy (big donor CEO dad) but she’s good at everything – national latin champ, national science olympiad, science researcher etc.</p>
<p>Everyone here tends to be very nice and understanding but, the truth is, if he’s not excelling at any activities at the end of 10th grade, I don’t see how he can get to the level of the first two kids I mentioned. Remember that he has basically one year left to gear up! The third kid, while brilliant, I don’t think she has that kind of angular accomplishment. Hence legacy helps. I don’t have any advice (my D is Jr., I wish could!), let’s just say “aim high, but being pratical” in your expectation.</p>
<p>Interesting because the kids who attend Cornell from my area have all been very accomplished in research and competitions. Cornell is a lesser Ivy…I did’nt realize that.</p>
<p>I just checked my son’s classmates senior scholar bios. The one heading for Harvard (in addition to the GPA/APs/unknown test scores) was president of a club, a state ranked athlete and a student board member of a local charity plus other normal high school stuff like NHS, Commended Merit Scholar, part time job and a bunch of other club participations. The other one heading for MIT had a bunch of sports none state ranked, no clubs other than NHS indicated but was student body president and had a part time job. Both are geographically desireable, really intelligent and great kids, but not “resume builders” and definitely not packaged from birth. If you are in the NE I think it’s tougher because the schools are such huge regional draws as well as drawing to a degree nationally. Both, if they posted to the awful chances threads here would be told “no chance.” Our school is compettive, small public, no grade inflation, no weighting of GPAs except in the final determination of the senior scholars derived from a formula. Each year a few or about 1% head off to highly selective, brass ring colleges the rest of the top of the heap are spread pretty evenly amoung UofM, Michigan State or to GVSU w/hefty scholarships or to regional Big 10 or selective midwest privates.</p>
<p>Cornell would not be a lesser Ivy for the OP’s son, who seems to have a demonstrated interest in engineering. It has one of the best engineering programs in the country.</p>
<p>But in general, I tend to agree that Cornell is a lesser Ivy – and I say that even though I graduated from Cornell myself and one of my kids is a student there now. It’s not Harvard. Neither are Penn, Dartmouth, or Brown. Ordinary mortals with excellent high school records get into these schools every year. They also get into non-Ivy schools of similar caliber, such as Duke, Georgetown, Northwestern, and Wash U.</p>
<p>I know plenty of kids at Cornell and other schools of its caliber who did not have extraordinary ECs. They certainly “did things” and had significant accomplishments or leadership roles in their main activities, but they didn’t necessarily win national competitions or do graduate level work in high school.</p>
<p>Highly technical schools like MIT and CalTech tend to weight scores more highly than anything else. His PSAT next year is important from the standpoint of potential merit aid from colleges for being a National Merit Finalist.</p>
<p>^^Each school in the Ivy Leage is quite unique. Several have similar characteristics but it’s not difficult to argue that they are unique. While certainly all colleges look for diversity in their student body they also look for kids that will come together as a “class” and hopefully stick it for four years as no college or uni is looking for kids that will transfer or fail out or simply drop out. Any high school student should work to be the best student they can be, contribute to their class and community and ultimately senior fall be able to articulate who they are what they care about and why they want to attend the schools they apply to. Simplified perhaps, but I don’t believe it’s off the mark. To the OP I would say help your young son grow into an independent young man who has a good sense of self and the brass ring is his to reach for. Give him the space and opportunity to develop his interests and let his own personality shine through.</p>
<p>Has your son participated in the AMC or other math competitions? He might want to if he has the opportunity, and high scores can be helpful. Also, if an Ivy is important to him, have him look into those who are trying to attract more engineering majors, such as Yale.
There program is a bit different than some (check out the website) but he might want to investigate the program, and even contact a prof who could answer questions about the program and offer suggestions. I’d have him wait until application time to do this, though.
I agree with others that a job isn’t necessary, but if he did something related to his engineering interest in the real world- part time work or an internship- that wouldn’t be a bad thing. It also might help with future employment.
Authentic interest in whatever ECs he does is what matters. If he can demonstrate leadership, so much the better.</p>