Extracurriculars for the Ivies

<p>My reaction would be–chill. What we have here is an obviously outstanding, motivated child. Let him do what he wants. If he gets to the Ivies, good for him. If not, he will succeed somewhere else.</p>

<p>^^Agree with emm1 and others who have suggested your S should do whatever it is he is passionate about (and at whatever level works for him) and not “whatever it takes” to get into Ivies.
First of all, because it’s an elusive equation. Short of the sort of national EC recognition some of the above posters have suggested, it’s difficult at best to know exactly what will or won’t make the Ivy cut any given year. So it’s a little like reading tea leaves.
Second, because I would hate to imagine a scenario in which a kid who’s doing everything right (as your S clearly is) takes on a commitment to something simply because it might get him in to an Ivy, passing up on something else that might not come with any sort of name recognition /leadership position but that can make a real impact in either his or someone else’s life (close friendships, good work for a small, local charity, learning something new --photography, music, whatever–, getting to spend time with grandparents or a younger sibling). What happens if after doing all that, he is still not admitted to the Ivy? Consider the alternate scenario, where everything he’s doing isn’t aimed at an Ivy acceptance letter.
Third, because I think the idea of finding the right “Extracurriculars for the Ivies” reinforces an ends versus means mentality that sends the wrong message and ultimately sets a kid up for disappointment (maybe not in two years, but at some point in his life), and not necessarily the good kind of disappointment that s/he can learn and grow from.<br>
I don’t mean to sound preachy (and I think I do…sorry, sorry) or to suggest your S shouldn’t work hard or follow his passions, on the contrary. Your S sounds like a great kid and he is incredibly lucky to have the parent/s he does. What I mean to say is that maybe you should let him (or help him) find what it is he really loves and wants to do (it sounds like he already does quite a lot!), not for some unpredictable possible Ivy admission, but because it’s something he really cares about.</p>

<p>There is a lot of mythology surrounding extracurriculars for the ivies. Please realize that the first, second and third factor in admissions for most applicants is academic and intellectual excellence. I know he is doing well now, but see if there are other ways inside and outside school to highlight his intellectual abilities. </p>

<p>Beyond that, there are many ways to stand out, but the only absolute requirements are authenticity and excellence- in that order. Take your cues not from the discussion forum but from your child. What does he like? What is he good at? Encourage him to do those things.</p>

<p>He is almost a junior now- there isn’t that much time left for him to take on a new EC and excel at it. I know nothing about Project Lead the Way, but if it is something he really enjoys and is good at, then he may already have an EC that he can focus on- spend the next year working hard at it, and let him accomplish something really significant in it. That would be much better than signing up for or starting a bunch of clubs and becoming an important sounding office holder. Or logging in some hours of volunteer work that he has no interest in doing. Or doing a random summer job.</p>

<p>^mom111 and vicariousparent have it exactly right.</p>

<p>I agree with Vicariousparent that authenticity and excellence are important. My daughter had a lot of success in her college admissions, and we never had a plan from the outset. It was only when we got her SAT scores we started thinking about the Ivies and other selective schools. She had always had perfect grades and was a real and natural scholar. After we started looking into H and Y and finding college confidential, I became worried we hadn’t known enough prior to high school and hadn’t positioned her well enough to compete with some of the kids I read about here. She didn’t have any fancy EC at all. She had worked in our family store her whole life and had gotten good grades because she was genuinely interested in all subjects. Apparently, this was enough. Some sort of authenticity shone through on her applications, I’m guessing. She’ll be at Harvard in the fall and we couldn’t be more surprised with the outcome. It’s hard to know why they pick who they pick, but I’m thinking some sincerity goes a long way.</p>

<p>Let’s say, hypothetically, that he really doesn’t want to do anything else. He has his sports teams, and likes a little xbox and TV with his downtime. He has no documented extraordinary leadership outside the classroom, just ordinary stuff. With his academics, I have no doubt he will get into some outstanding schools. And, I know whatever school he graduates, he will be a high achiever and a wonderful person. But, if for whatever reason he has his heart set on the Ivies, MIT, etc, is he setting himself up for disappointment? In other words, are those schools possible for him as he is?</p>

<p>Looks like mountaingoat answered my question</p>

<p>“But, if for whatever reason he has his heart set on the Ivies, MIT, etc, is he setting himself up for disappointment? In other words, are those schools possible for him as he is?”</p>

<p>Those schools accept fewer than 1 in 7-10 applicants, and are flooded with applications from high stat students. They are longshots for most students – including ones with stronger ECs than your son’s. They are more of a longshot for your son than for the students with strong ECs.</p>

<p>Still, if he’s interested in those schools, he should give them a shot while making sure he has safeties that he knows he will be accepted to, can afford, and would enjoy attending. This is something all applicants should do.</p>

<p>Chardo, any kid who has their heart set on any particular school unless it’s a straight up “admit from the grid” sort of place is going about it the wrong way in my opinion. There are too many variables. Your kid doesn’t know who else from his HS is also applying; doesn’t know which kid from the HS one exit down the interstate is applying; has no clue that when he writes an essay on “why I love gumdrops” it will be the 15th essay on gumdrops that the adcom has read that month… and the other 14 kids did it better.</p>

<p>You just don’t know.</p>

<p>Your s should spend some time thinking about what he likes, what he loves, the kind of things he likes to learn and the kinds of people he likes to be surrounded with. So if he’s interested in MIT and ends up applying to MIT, Cal Tech, Case, RPI, Cornell, JHU, WPI, Carnegie Mellon and your State Flagship’s engineering school he’s bound to end up somewhere that has enough math and science kids to keep him engaged plus fun and interesting things to do on the weekends. But no sense having his heart broken by fixating on any one institution.</p>

<p>Are those schools “possible for him as he is”? Sure.</p>

<p>Is he “setting himself up for disappointment”? Sure to that, too.</p>

<p>Blossom, that sounds like a perfect list of schools. He always joked that Cal Tech would be great for him. They have a legendarily bad basketball team (recently went 11 years without winning a game). He thought he could go to the school and play for the team, fitting right into both.</p>

<p>Anybody who applies to Ivies, MIT etc is “setting himself up for disappointment”. But the fear of disappointment should not stop your son from applying. Aiming low to avoid disappointment is one of the worst strategies, and unfortunately there are too many people (even on CC) who advocate that.</p>

<p>My daughter has a friend, who, like mountaingoat’s daughter, got into Harvard this year with minimal extracurricular activities and no significant leadership, volunteer work or employment. His ‘ticket’ was to be really, really smart and do really really well in his academics. Recommendations made it clear he was the type of student whom teachers encounter once in a decade.</p>

<p>My daughter, who will attend Yale in the fall, did have a bunch of extracurricular activities that she spent a lot of time on, and won some national and regional awards for, but no significant volunteer work or employment. I still think the main reason she did well in the college admissions process was her strong academic performance, essays and recommendations. In fact, I think one of the main ways in which EC’s benefit an application is by demonstrating to colleges that you can keep up your academic performance in the face of a time consuming EC schedule. Or you could have something else that takes up your time- perhaps a job, perhaps something else. I remember there was a student last year who was accepted to one of these top schools and her main “EC” was providing care for her disabled sibling.</p>

<p>" I think one of the main ways in which EC’s benefit an application is by demonstrating to colleges that you can keep up your academic performance in the face of a time consuming EC schedule."</p>

<p>For places like Ivies, what they want are students who’ll add to the campus’ diversity and help maintain an active student body.</p>

<p>“Diversity” includes students who are “pure intellectuals” – those students so smart that a teacher will enter one once in their career.</p>

<p>Diversity also includes students who’ve had character building experiences such as having major responsibilities with a disabled sibling.</p>

<p>It’s not necessary to have worked or to have done community service or to have had top offices in student organizations.</p>

<p>And, as always, one can’t predict who’ll get in and who’ll be rejected. The top colleges are building classes, and only the admissions officers know what they’ll need to fill out each class.</p>

<p>As far as I am aware the only “stand out” is something like saving Africa from aids or malaria. The rest is normal stuff that everybody else is doing, nothing special: volunteering, competitive sport at state level, working, school newspaper, great writing / communications skills, high rank (preferrably #1). All of it does not provide any guarantee at any selective school / program.</p>

<p>I know it’s off topic, but does ability to pay full tuition factor into admissions for the elite schools?</p>

<p>^ I do not think so. But I do not know statistical facts about it. One additional point - graduating from specific HS might make a difference in both Ivy’s and other selective programs admissions.</p>

<p>Not sure if his high school would be a plus or a minus. It’s been ranked as the best high school in the country (plus), so there are many great students applying (minus).</p>

<p>^Definite PLUS.</p>

<p>They just released a list of acceptances for this year’s graduating class at our school. There are 346 students. Number accepted to selected schools:</p>

<p>Harvard 2
Yale 4
Princeton 3
Cornell 34 (10% of the class got into Cornell!)
Columbia 10
Penn 8
Dartmouth 6
Brown 3
Stanford 1
MIT 5
Caltech 1
RPI 3
Carnegie Mellon 6
Cooper Union 1
Georgia Tech 2
Johns Hopkins 8</p>

<p>The most acceptances (58) came from Binghamton (we’re in NY). Curiously, Penn State was right behind with 56.</p>

<p>That’s a pretty strong school there! How many actual kids produced those HYPS acceptances? Four? Ten? Eight? Were they kids like your son?</p>

<p>I agree with MiamiDAP that a strong school is a huge plus.</p>