I have a very bad mouth. My mouth is getting better because I am no longer working in the financial markets. I have said some nasty things. I almost blew up at some people at Bank of America a couple of days ago. 
I really had to control myself.
I am ethical though. I havenāt coerced anybody to do anything they donāt want to do. I know people who are not ethical. I donāt want to hang around anybody who I donāt like or who isnāt ethical. Life is way too short.
I guess you guys missed my link about Northwestern in post #392. Plenty of stuff there as well, boys and girls. It would be nice to think there is a perfect college out there and that all of our kids are perfect and well behaved at all times. Good luck with that. Yale had those guys a few years ago who pulled that crass " no means yes, yes means anal" stuff. These guys are , Iām sure, out there with Yale degrees. Unfortunately, some 20 year olds are known to do and say stupid, crass stuff.
The emails are crass, stupid, and juvenile.
Gee @momofthreeboys, sorry about that keyboard but not my "inaneā post. Iāve been taken aback by a number of your posts but fortunately havenāt damaged any equipment as a result.
Look, I know that playing school sports teaches a lot of great lessons to student athletes which I donāt believe can actually be learned in the chess club or jazz band. Iām a big fan of college football, even if Iām troubled by a lot of the issues surrounding it. I actually encouraged my kid to continue team sports in high school but he just didnāt want to anymore and quit after freshman year.
If itās offensive to ālumpā all jocks together, well itās offensive to lump all Greeks, or all Republicans, all UVA students or all of any group together but when the evidence reaches critical mass, thatās going to happen. Of course, many of us know current and student athletes who are excellent people but many who donāt know them may begin to wonder about them. The problem is that the āniceā boys/men who play sports tolerate the toxic atmosphere that has been emerging around jock culture, and their parents seem eager to minimize how truly terrible it is. Given the stories that continue to spill out, there are going to be more and more girls who are grossed out by it. Donāt worry though; there still seem to be many young women who are willing and eager to get involved with male athletes, no matter what the risks.
The passive-aggressive slams extended toward the young man who blew the whistle on his teammates (but only when asked by the coach) are evidence enough that there is a pervasive problem. You canāt have it both ways. If you donāt want people to think less of those who participate in this culture, then stop being so supportive of it.
Actually my football playing, lacrosse playing, engineering junior went to the state tournament forā¦get thisā¦chess. The whole exercise of chessā¦the strategy, the forward thinking, the learning the opponent is exactly the same skills that are used in almost every single athletic sport by high caliber team players. i hope you are taken aback by my posts because clearly there is an educational component in everyoneās posts. I have no clue what ājockā culture is to be honestā¦I guess Iāve just known too many athletes during my life. Heavens, I might be a jock and not even know it.
I donāt know what jock culture is either.
The 5 guys were disciplined. It was not ignored and there were strong consequences. I donāt see that there is this monolithic ājockā culture out there. Some teams haze, some teams do minimal innocuous stuff, some do nothing at all. It is team specific. Hazing does need to stop and so it is good that there is more dialogue about it.
I think if you looked at a Venn diagram of ājock cultureā and ārape cultureā, you would see significant overlap.
Well, maybe we should all just agree that all jocks are rapists then and call it a day.
momofthreeboys, My engineer husband was a big chess player for years. He was into postal chess for quite awhile back when people still had to send stuff by mail. He also played high school and college basketball. I asked him last night if he was ever hazed and he said no. The only problem he had was with his HS coach, not his teammates. The coach was a real old school SOB who delighted in telling the guys that āsomeday youāre going to want to p___ on my grave.ā My engineer sons played tons of sports-Little League until teenagers, varsity volleyball for both, also varsity basketball for one, varsity tennis for the other. No major hazing there either.
@sevmom, Add fraternity boys to your comment and the post count at CC would go waaaay down.
@sevmom ā you are taking peopleās positions and extrapolating them to the extreme. No one on this thread mentioned the word ārapistā except you. Donāt put words in other peopleās mouths.
@HarvestMoon1 and you are taking a flip, sarcastic remark in response to another post (which some people got-sorry you did not) and extrapolating that to the extreme. And before you jump on me again- no,I certainly donāt think this subject is funny .
The response you all are jumping on Harvest for was in response to post 422 and post 426 generalizing about jock culture so yes, it was a flip response to posts making generalizations about specific cultural behaviors in those two original posts. I chose to ignore it because generalizations are pointless. None of these subjects are āfunnyā but they also are not behaviors that can be ascribed to cultural groups anymore than it is acceptable to talk about African American culture in a derogatory way, or Asian culture or Jewish culture or fraternity culture or athletic culture in a derogatory manner etcā¦ terminology like .jock culture and rape culture are like nails on a chalkboard for me and I will quickly drop out of the conversation when people start doing this āall these people do this or all these people do thatāā¦
I got it right away.
I was in sorority, DH was in a fraternity and a D1 ājockā. We didnāt haze, didnāt get alcohol poisoning, graduated in four years. We are not perfect but we are well read, try to be kind and we donāt watch Real Housewives.
But, I also want to say that I knew/know people that could have sent those emails and done the things alleged. Broad generalizations and stereotypes about groups, one way or the other, illuminate more about the speaker than they ever do about the subject
Good point deega.
Agree. I donāt think there is anyone here who thinks that there is no hazing within sports, anywhere (by males more so but girls unfortunately sometimes haze as well). There are plenty of documented cases of it. And certainly, there are athletes and fraternity guys who have raped. I donāt think anyone would deny thatā¦
I was a new student orientation counselor in college. Our bonding weekend involved three nights of camping, which included skinny dipping in a mountain lake, eating magic mushrooms, a girl unzipped a guyās fly with her teeth in a game of truth or dare, and some had sex at night in our group cabin. All of those experiences were new to me, some were illegal, and I never engaged in any of them again. I didnāt even think about them again until this thread, but I remember that weekend fondly.
Think about that when your D says sheās got a crush on one of those cute orientation counselors! Lol.
The rhetorical gymnastics used in this thread to find some way to defend or minimize bad behavior by these athletes are really something. āI never heard of this kind of culture.ā āOther people do it too.ā āDonāt lump people together (no matter how often we get the same kind of story.)ā Etc., etc., etc. I guess people just think āhonorā and ācharacterā are myths.
Honor and character, at least a single standard for each, is a myth in this country.