These two are my top choices right now. I’ve been accepted to Berkeley and have a conditional offer for Cambridge. I am an international student hoping to read Computer Science at either university, and the cost does not concern me too much (I think they’ll end up costing similar anyways).
Factors I’m considering:
Future Job Opportunities - Should I value the fact that Berkeley is in very close proximity with Silicon Valley, or the brand recognition of Univ of Cambridge* (see below)
Quality of Education - I have not much interest in anything other than ComSci and Maths, but I hope to pick up passions like playing football (soccer) or learning an instrument whilst in college. At Berkeley, I did L&S CS, but I hope to transfer into EECS whilst there (is this possible) because the L&S CS electives seem quite difficult and uninteresting Obviously, the depth and breadth of the course interest me.
Culture - I’d rather not commit suicide by the end of uni! But I’m also rather introverted, and don’t do well in extremely large settings. I would definitely love to join organizations and clubs.
Living Conditions - Food, Weather, Dorm, etc.
someone, please help me decide I know ultimately it is my decision, but I feel like there’s valuable information that could help me decide here!!
*I was accepted to Trinity College in the Univ. of Cambridge, which is supposedly the richest and most prestigious one there, with the likes of Isaac Newton, James Maxwell, and Ernest Rutherford being alumni.
Food: A lot of asian restaurants around campus. You will learn to love boba.
Weather: rainy for a month. Fine other than that, around 50-65 degrees F.
We complain a lot, but at least we have outlets for our complaints.
Not very many people transfer into EECS. Heard it’s contingent on how many people transfer out.
If you don’t like CS, why would you major in it?
Silicon Valley is 50 minutes drive away. San Francisco is nearby. It’s not hard for CS majors to get jobs or internships generally.
We have intramural sports and a ton of clubs. I bet a decal (student led class on random subjects like Harry Potter) would teach you to play an instrument. There’s a history of soccer class that a few people that I know took. They like it.
Just go visit both. That’s the best way to decide.
If you only are interested in CS and Math, Cambridge (an Ivy-equivalent) seems best. Cal is also much more gigantic. Admission even in to L&S CS isn’t assured. Transferring in to Cal EECS is essentially impossible.
And yes, unless you aren’t an American citizen or permanent resident, working in the US right out of college is quite unlikely.
You got accepted into Trinity at Cambridge? I wouldn’t hesitate (I’d probably go with Cambridge anyway, but Trinity seals the deal imo). Make sure you meet the conditions of your offer. You will have an undergrad experience almost unparalleled anywhere else. The collegiate experience helps a big university seem smaller, and you will have fantastic support, both academic and otherwise (“pastoral”). And while it’s obviously not nearly as big as SV, remember Cam has Silicon Fen.
Weather will be better in NorCal but not enough to swing the decision imo. At Cam you’ll have rooms in college throughout, the college will have a dining hall but you can use other college halls too (usually at a higher food charge) and there are many restaurants a few minutes walk from Trinity in the center of Cambridge. (And I don’t know if this is a factor, but the drinking age in the UK is 18, not 21 like the US. Some good bars around Cambridge too, and most colleges even have their own bars.)
@Walter924 I do love Computer Science! In fact, I dislike the EE side of EECS. I just didn’t know that I had to take all these other electives by virtue of being in L&S, which I suppose reflects poorly on me as an applicant.
I’m just curious; can most of the breadth requirements be knocked out by subjects like Economics, Business, or, as you mentioned, those decal classes?
@PurpleTitan is that true even for those studying in the States for undergrad? If I eventually want to work in the US (particularly Silicon Valley), would doing an undergrad at Cambridge and then a master’s at Stanford/Berkeley/etc. do me well? Or should I just go to Berkeley undergrad?
@SJ2727 thank you for that response! No, the drinking thing doesn’t bother me as I don’t fancy drinks much I’m just curious about how Cambridge (particularly Trinity) supports their students looking for internships whilst in undergrad? It seemd pretty bleak when I did my research. Also, would you know if students are largely depressed there/if I can make good friends and have fun amidst the stress? Lol
Re: breadths at Cal, you can do some “double dipping” if you plan things ahead. For example, CS 61C which is required for CS majors, fulfills your Physical Science breadth. Econ 1 amongst many other classes can be used for Social Science. My kid became a dual CS/DS major mainly because he could use a couple of required DS classes to fulfill DS requirements - namely Cog Sci 1 as his lower division DS Domain emphasis class and as a Social Sciences breadth, and his HIST 184D Data Science Ethics class to fulfill his DS Ethics requirement plus knock out his History breadth. Also at some point you’ll want to mix in a breadth with all the technicals you’re going to wind up taking.
Getting into Berkeley means that you will be educated there. You are a guest of the UCs. You are not getting citizenship status. Once you receive your degree, you are expected to return to your country of origin. Go in with open eyes.
During your schooling you may intern with a company, but they cannot guarantee to provide a work visa/sponsorship. Immigration and work visas in the US are strict.
US companies must employ US candidates first. If the company provides services, via government contracts, they need workers who can attain security clearances. Many websites post that they cannot hire nor provide work visas for non-citizens.
Seeing as you have a conditional offer at Cambridge only, you MUST accept both places now (and yes you are allowed, as they are universities in different countries) and plan to attend Berkeley until you know whether you fulfil the conditions. (When would that be, btw?)
And if your place at Trinity works out, I’d be over there like a shot.
Small community, lots of like minds, all diving deep into their subjects immediately, no distributional requirements or gen eds, recreational sports as opposed to major spectator sports, just don’t expect to pick up an instrument. That one won’t happen!
I have never heard of students at Oxford or Cambridge having problems finding internships. I don’t know that you’d need much “support”…the careers center will have lists of places that take Cambridge students every year and you apply.
A much bigger consideration would be careers prospects once you have graduated.
Do you have the right to work in either place? I know the rules that will apply in the UK are a crapshoot right now but assume that if you have to apply for work visas in either place, it will be difficult but doable for a CS grad. Could you afford a masters in the US to facilitate your application?
I am assuming that Berkeley is quite a bit more expensive for you (higher tuition for internationals and 4 years instead of 3), is that a factor?
I am sure you will be able to have a good experience at Berkeley, but I am just as sure you will be happier at Trinity.
@ProfessorPlum168 Thank you for that clarification!! The DS double degree is also extremely interesting to me, and I’m glad it can knock out the history requirement! If it’s alright, could you share me some other tech/math-oriented classes that I can take to fill in the breadth requirements, much like the data science ethics one?
@“aunt bea” I think I’m quite young to be thinking about these things for now, but do you reckon the Berkeley undergrad degree is far more useful in finding a job in the States (all things considered; visa, hiring, etc.) than the Cambridge one, despite the latter’s prominence?
@Tigerle thank you so much for your reply. No, I don’t have the right to work in either country (as of now) I don’t think as I’m not from Europe/North America. From my estimates, Berkeley will indeed cost about $70k more. I’m not particularly wealthy but my parents can and will afford it. From what you’re saying here, it seems that the best route is to try my best to attend Trinity in Cambridge, and then do my master’s in the USA. Do you think this is ideal, given that the Cambridge Master’s is only a year added?
And your reply was also particularly comforting. It has definitely swayed my opinion now further towards Cambridge, though I’m sure both places are fantastic!! My only question is the same I asked earlier in this thread; is the stress at Cambridge particularly manageable, and will I be able to make good friends and attend football games with them?
Your chances of working in the US after undergrad are low regardless of which you choose. Typically easier to get an American work visa after an American master’s but that is also not certain.
You seem like a better fit for Cambridge, honestly. There will be lecture classes with a thousand students at Berkeley. It won’t always be like that, but if you are looking for a more intimate uni experience, you aren’t going to get it at Cal. Cambridge is utterly lovely. I’d go there in a heartbeat.
The stress is definitely manageable. The terms are short (8 weeks of lectures in fall and winter, 4 weeks in spring term) which means you need to do some catch-up/prep in the vacations. I generally set aside 1-2 weeks at Christmas and Easter break for the left over work. But then I rarely worked in the evenings, and certainly never did an all nighter. The only time most people are noticeably stressed is the two weeks leading up to exams in the summer, since that is often the entirety of your grade, and you need to revise everything from the whole year. That’s probably easier for those brought up in a UK style exam based school system than in the US style continual assessment model.
There’s lots of college level sports, obviously rowing is dominant, with rugby in second place, but there’s also soccer, hockey, badminton, squash, tennis, croquet, etc teams at a college level (playing against other colleges). Some sports are at a university level only (athletics, swimming, golf, etc) which means you need to be good, but within college all are welcome, and they always need players (everything is non-cut). Trinity is fortunate to have its own fields and courts very close to college, other colleges’ fields are often a bike ride away. It’s all self-organized by students, so there’s plenty of opportunities for posts (secretary, captain etc) to go on your resume. Rowing is a major commitment (usually 6 days a week) but others are not (1 practice and 1 game a week would be typical).
A lot of social activity revolves around sports clubs (dinners etc), as it provides a good way to meet people outside your subject. But you are more likely to be close friends with others doing your subject in the same college, as you will attend lectures and supervisions together. The compulsory course structure and walking to/from
lectures makes that almost inevitable.
On your question about internships note that there’s a distinction between what’s organized at a college and university level. Careers is a university wide function (there is a careers center) so don’t expect colleges to help much with that, and although there are various college alumni events (medics, law, workers in “the City”) it’s not clear to me there are strong linkages with undergrads. Nevertheless nowadays major employers are looking to get ahead of the game by giving summer internships to students after their second year. Go to the careers center to find out about those.
Research internships for undergrads aren’t as much of a thing as in the US. Firstly you don’t have time during term (and not much at Christmas or Easter) due to the workload. And staying in the summer is not typical like the US (there aren’t any classes and the colleges rent out rooms for conferences). But I’ve seen it happen in some cases.
During your four years at UC Berkeley, in addition to your major requirements, you’ll have the equivalent of two-years of general education requirements, meaning that while some of the required courses may be of related interest to you, some will not necessarily be classes that you would be inclined to take. Many students love adding an additional range of classes that they otherwise wouldn’t have taken, while others feel that they’re wasting time not spent on their major.
Based on your stated academic interests, sounds like Cambridge is a much better fit for you, as you’ll be able to study exactly what you want during your three years there; saving money on the fourth year, unless you choose to do the Master’s.
Note that UC Berkeley (and most all of the UC’s) are much more focused on graduate students than undergrads. Undergrads can be second-class citizens at Berkeley and there can be lot’s of meaningless bureaucracy to traverse in order to graduate in four years.
What that means for you is that you could become one-in-a crowd at a large school during your first two years. The competition within undergrad studies can be fierce.
As noted above, transfer into the EECS from L&S will be virtually impossible.
I strongly agree with poster above who suggested Cambridge/Trinity for your first degree, followed by either Master’s or PhD at UC Berkeley.
@ryan2001, you are not understanding what we are trying to tell you. The degree from Berkeley won’t change your citizenship status. You’re not a citizen and you don’t hold a green card- very important to become employed in the US.
You have mistakenly assumed that your admission has given you carte blanche to work in the US after graduation.
You need to be aware that once you finish your education, you will return to your country for all future endeavors and employment. It doesnt matter if you have a degree from Berkeley or any other US school.
You will be a guest of the US, for your education, if you attend Berkeley. After that, the US is under no obligation to provide you with employment. All bets are off-your student visa will expire.
Also, if you choose to attend Berkeley, when you apply for your student visa, if immigration officials sense that you plan to try to stay in the US for work after graduation, you will not be given a student visa to enter the US to attend Berkeley.
The point of a masters in the US would be making the job search/visa application process in the US easier. Is it worth paying another 20 or 30 K over and above what the fourth year at Cambridge would cost you? From a ROI perspective, possibly not, particularly as success is not guaranteed - only you can know how much the somewhat enhanced chance of making it to the US (and of course, the new academic and personal experience) is worth it to you.
I wouldn’t think so far ahead - plans can change. You may want to stay in the UK. Focus on your best choice for undergrad now.
As far as the workload goes: it has been my impression that undergrads in the US work harder day to day, but have fewer responsibilities as far as managing their workload and studies goes, whereas in the UK, students have more independence and responsibility in how they manage their studies - you can get away with working a lot less as long as you deliver at the end of the year, or even at the end of your degree. It’s a personal preference, and may also, as a previous poster has pointed out, depend on what kind of system you have been used to so far.
Feeling overwhelmed at first can happen to you in any system - I’d say it’s normal, and you will adjust.
Obviously, the depth and breadth of the course interest me.
I’m just curious about how Cambridge (particularly Trinity) supports their students looking for internships whilst in undergrad? It seemd pretty bleak when I did my research. Also, would you know if students are largely depressed there/if I can make good friends and have fun amidst the stress? Lol