<p>I have called and checked with the FAFSA folks, along with DD's state U where she is accepted, and one of the LAC where she applied to be sure I understand the rules. Both schools -and a few other FA folks at college visits-said they count a family member in graduate school. I had a GREAT fafsa rep explain it all to me this morning, which was nice. </p>
<p>Two big upsets. First it turns out, at least at the one LAC-they count grad student when getting FAFSA numbers but will remove her from calcuations for institutional aid. Right there my numbers double. In addition the fafsa will double for year 3,4 when older one is done with grad school.</p>
<p>Depression point two. State school said due to budget cuts they will not offer grant money to anyone with EFC over 4,000. We don't meet that cutoff this year. All NJ state schools seem to be in this situation. </p>
<p>Depression three. This truely seems nuts to me. We pay 400+ a month on student loans, and the LAC said they don't count loans, period. Now I could see where someone bought a 100k winnebago and a big boat or whatever, but student loans? </p>
<p>DD does far better in small classes with interactive learning, so that was the main focus of application choices, plus the major.
I am torn between having her apply for a few more good anthropology dept. schools, consider her original interest of biology w/anthro minor - opens up the choices, just wait and hope she gets merit at the smaller schools, try to see if all RU classes are huge or not, and shooting myself in the foot. well maybe just walking around the house in circles ranting. With student loans, permanent medical costs, mortgage and food, we actually run in the red each month. plus it's now cold here.</p>
<p>Isn't NJ great! I understand completely. I was looking for smaller too, but my son ended up at large OOS, but half the size of RU, and he is still getting personal attention, b/c there is an undergraduate focus there. Also, larger classes at his school are often made small through blackboard, and very regular professor emails. He also can pick smaller classes, or go with more popular larger ones, but that is his choice. I know that this does not help you, but I think that COA for instate students at public Us have gotten out of hand. RU costs around 20,000 without aid.</p>
<p>Maybe you can include a letter explaining your situation to FA, but I have no idea about how far that will take you.</p>
<p>You may consider asking the LAC for further details or explanation of how they calculate the IM. </p>
<p>FWIW, here's how the IM usually works:</p>
<p>Families having more than one student in school, regardless of the spacing of those students, have to pay more for school than families who have one student . The IM system is not without heart, however, as it recognizes the financial burden on families having two students in school, thus reducing the expected contribution for each student when more than one is enrolled. </p>
<p>Having two students in school, the IM system expects their family to pay 60% of the parent contribution for each student. In other words, with two students, you pay 120% or 20% more than for one student. </p>
<p>The reason is very simple: when a student is away at school, his or her expenses represent a saving to the family HOME budget as his or her room and board are part of the COA. </p>
<p>FWIW, the FAFSA formula takes this in consideration. The TOTAL EFC is higher when more students are in college. The individual numbers (per student) is obviously lower as it is divided by the number of students in college. The IM seeks to do the same thing, albeit using a well-guarded and more nebulous or sinuous formula.</p>
<p>OldinJersey - is there an honors college within the State U that your D might be eligible for? At first my D was not interested in honors college (after 2 years at a very small math & Sci high school she is very keen to become a number rather than a name). But after attending the presentation on it and realising exactly how large the regular classes are she decided to give it a go. Smaller classes, priority enrolement and some interesting sounding classes were what attracted her.</p>
<p>my dd didn't qualify for auto honors college at RU, and it is, I think, too late to apply. I will check back on that. She qualified at a smaller state school and got a Presidential scholarship as well. It also happens to be the only one besides RU with anthropology. Although during her visit she liked it she has since been to RU, Fordham, St. Mary's MD and she liked it much less having seen those.</p>
<p>Xiggi, there are schools that exclude and include categories in their IM. It seems to me that OldinJersey just found out that one of the schools on her list does not include grad students in the student definition when using their IM for aid, though FAFSA does. Which means the EFC for that school is going to be much larger. Interesting as there is a thread on the Financial Board that asks if grad students are counted as another student. They are, for FAFSA but not necessarily for PROFILE or a college's own app. </p>
<p>In any case, it shows how hard it is to get money for college. EFC does not stand for Every F...... Cent. The IM of some schools can squeeze those last coins out of stone after the water has been depleted.</p>
<p>BTW, any school that considers that a student's room and board goes down because the kid's away at school has it wrong. Last I looked, my mortgage payment isn't contingent on how many people live in my house.</p>
<p>I actually wouldn't expect for a grad student to count- I realize they do in some cases, but considering they are adults- and have recieved their BA and are independent for FAFSA-on their own- it doesn't make sense to me that they are independent for their own aid, but still count as another college student for siblings- ( but parents don't)</p>
<p>Last I looked, my mortgage payment isn't contingent on how many people live in my house.</p>
<p>This is true
but they don't eat there anymore- so that cancels board and I know those who sold their house and moved to a condo ( a very nice condo), as soon as the kids went off to college!
They had to get rid of boxes and boxes of books I don't know how they did it!</p>
<p>I also hate to say it- but once they are off to college- they are gone :(
They barely come home for summer break and they aren't likely to move back when they graduate.</p>
<p>Leave home indeed. You know what they call the children of baby boomers? Boomarangs!
My oldest moved back home to save money and lived here for part of law school. We covered his food, some expenses, books, and of course board.
Years ago my brothers moved home to save the down payment on a two family. Took a year of working jobs to get the cash saved.
I don't know a single local parent that has not had at least one, if not more, come home at some point.
I love it!!!</p>
<p>I realize this- and I wouldn't have known that if the question hadnt been brought up- which is still confusing, but it certainly helps families out who have kids closer together than ours
But then I have another question- can you count them on fafsa as long as they are a grad student?
( I think I will tell D to be in grad school by the time her sister is ready for college ;) )</p>
<p>well while my niece has been living at home for 2 years since graduation, she is the only one I know.
While a few kids have moved back to the area- its nice that our urban area has a fairly strong job market- mine is still in her college town and I have no idea where she is going to go for grad school.
I didn't expect her to move back home, although it is nice to have her on this coast at least, but I have been out of the house since I was 17 and apart from staying a few days here or there, while inbetween places, Ihavent been back-
I understand about saving up money, my sister and her husband lived with my mother for a year while they had their house built- but then again- I don't know how well it worked for my mom- she had a psychotic break while they were there and was hospitalized for a month.
but I don't think I would want to live with anyof them myself! :confused:</p>
<p>"In any case, it shows how hard it is to get money for college. EFC does not stand for Every F...... Cent. "</p>
<p>"It seems to me that OldinJersey just found out that one of the schools on her list does not include grad students in the student definition when using their IM for aid, though FAFSA does. Which means the EFC for that school is going to be much larger."</p>
<p>While I am not so sure that Curmudgeon's definition of EFC is indeed correct, one thing is clear is that the EFC is often defined incorrectly, especially when it comes to the IM methodology. The differences between the IM and FM are NOT expressed in a different EFC, but in a different interpretation of the "demonstrated need" and the seld-aid components. The EFC number is established by the Department of Education and NOT by the schools that prefer to adopt the CSS/Prodile formulas. </p>
<p>For starters, it is possible to eliminate part of all of the mislabeled "expected family contribution" established by the IM via outside scholarships; this is simply NOT possible for the EFC, unless one can cover the entire COA.</p>
<p>PS It is hard to know which components of the IM are adopted by schools since the exact formulas are kept from the public. All we have is what the College Board (the source of my previous statement on multiple students for IM) or other groups decide to make public. On the other hand, one can determine his or her EFC/SAR to the ... penny. Transparency is not a common word at the IM schools.</p>
<p>I would like some clarification: A grad student lowers an efc when using FM, but a grad student does nothing to demonstrate greater financial need when a school uses IM?</p>
<p>northeastmom - I've talked to 4 FA officers, two in depth about it, and spent 20 min. on the phone to FAFSA this morning and still a bit confused.
All I know for sure is it is ok to keep the grad student as a family member and as a person in college when doing the FAFSA. CSS actually asks if in grad school, and what school, so it is added to the mix.
I only spoke directly to one LAC. I am sure they figure things out about the same as other schools - but that could be wrong. The EFC is used by the college to figure what federal grants and loans the student can get. That school doesn't use it for IM at all.
I am assuming it is the same everywhere, but I intend to call each school once I have the FAFSA done, or else just wait and fret until May. This is making wonder if DD should add in one specific state school to the applications.
Clear as mud, eh?</p>
<p>I did. Sorry, I don't get it. If I understood, I would not need clarification. Anyone who would like to explain this one, esp. for me, in a simple way :) thanks.</p>
<p>"A grad student lowers an efc when using FM, but a grad student does nothing to demonstrate greater financial need when a school uses IM?"</p>
<p>Also, to that effect graduate students qualify as independents, so they receive aid based upon their income and assets, not their parents, which is why the graduate student's status might not be included in the IM.</p>