FA experts, if you get merit, does that reduce Pell?

Parents Forum
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<p>I want to put forth a question to the FA experts on Parents Forum.</p>

<p>if a student comes from a family of 5 with an income of $30K, would he qualify for Pell? anything else federal wise?</p>

<p>Also, if that student got a nice merit offer - say - full tuition, would his Pell be reduced? What other grants could he still get while also collecting the big merit scholly?</p>

<p>Also...Can he use that Pell at an OOS school?</p>

<p>I'm trying to help a kid. I'm wondering if he could stack his Pell (or whatever) on top of his merit scholarships.</p>

<p>Thanks.</p>

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<p>Federal Supplemental Educational Opportunity Grant (FSEOG)
The Federal Supplemental Educational Opportunity Grant (FSEOG) program is for undergraduates with exceptional financial need. Pell Grant recipients with the lowest expected family contributions (EFCs) will be considered first for a FSEOG. Just like Pell Grants, the FSEOG does not have to be repaid.</p>

<p>How much can I get?
You can receive between $100 and $4,000 a year, depending on when you apply, your financial need, the funding at the school you’re attending, and the policies of the financial aid office at your school.</p>

<p>If I am eligible, how will I get the FSEOG money?
If you’re eligible, your school will credit your account, pay you directly (usually by check), or combine these methods. Your school must pay you at least once per term (semester, trimester, or quarter). Schools that do not use semesters, trimesters, or quarters must disburse funds at least twice per academic year.</p>

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<p>How much can I get?
The maximum Pell Grant award for the 2009-10 award year (July 1, 2009 to June 30, 2010) is $5,350. The maximum amount can change each award year and depends on program funding. The amount you get, though, will depend not only on your financial need, but also on your costs to attend school, your status as a full-time or part-time student, and your plans to attend school for a full academic year or less. Note: The maximum award amount is given for any Pell Grant eligible student whose parent or guardian died as a result of military service in Iraq or Afghanistan after Sept.11, 2001. You must be under 24 years old or enrolled at least part-time in college at the time of your parent’s or guardian’s death.</p>

<p>If I am eligible, how will I get the Pell Grant money?
Your school can apply Pell Grant funds to your school costs, pay you directly (usually by check), or combine these methods. The school must tell you in writing how much your award will be and how and when you’ll be paid. Schools must disburse funds at least once per term (semester, trimester, or quarter). Schools that do not use semesters, trimesters, or quarters must disburse funds at least twice per academic year.</p>

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<p>If the income is under $30k (might change this year but that has not been published yet) and the parents are eligible to file a 1040a or 1040ez tax return then they would get an automatic 0 EFC which would make them eligible for the full Pell (currently $5350 but is supposed to increase a little next year - to $5500 maybe). They may also be eligible for the ACG of $750 (requires Pell eligibility and some academic requirements) and possible the SEOG (the amount of SEOG is a campus based federal grant and the criteria for it and the maximum award varies by school. Both my son’s amd my daughter’s school award it to students with a 0 EFC (not a 1 Efc, a 0) but my daughter’s school awards a max of $2,000 while my son’s school awards a maximum of $200). If the income is higher or the student does not otherwise qualify for the automatic 0 EFC
the EFC should still be low enough for quite a bit of Pell grant (assuming the student does not have high income and assets or the parents do not have high assets). </p>

<p>The Pell is a federal grant and will be the same at whatever school the student goes to. </p>

<p>A full tuition scholarship would not stop a student from getting the Pell as it can be used for other expenses. My daughter has a full tuition scholarship and also gets the Pell, SEOG, and SMART grants.</p>

<p>This question would be better posted in the FA forum.</p>

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<p>Swim…</p>

<p>I know this question would probably be better on FA forum, but I wanted to be sure to catch people like you who know all these things.</p>

<p>When you say “income under $30k” - is that full gross income? Or is that income after any kind of deductions/exemptions/etc?</p>

<p>:)</p>

<p>Thanks to everyone who’s replied so far!</p>

<p>:)</p>

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<p>If the student qualifies for a Pell grant, he is eligible up to the extent of unfulfilled need, based on the actual COA of the school. So a kid with a full tuition scholarship would still qualify for the Pell to meet living expenses; but if the kid had a full ride scholarship (which includes housing costs), then there would be little or no unmet need, so the grant would be reduced accordingly.</p>

<p>Pell grants usually are not enough to meet the full COA for a college - unless the kid is attending an in-state public and living at home – so in general the Pell will be combined with other types of aid. It doesn’t matter whether the other aid is designated as an institutional need-based grant or a merit award – what matters is the unmet need figure, based on the FAFSA EFC.</p>

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<p>^^^</p>

<p>That makes sense!</p>

<p>I’m glad to hear this…</p>

<p>I know at least 2 students that this should apply to…One is mentioned above, and the other will likely get a N Achievement big scholly, but it doesn’t include food, fees, books, misc. So, I’m sure that is going to make him (and his family) super happy. :slight_smile: </p>

<p>Thanks guys!!! :)</p>

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<p>I think I read that the Pell does not get reduced by scholarships like other federal aid does. It seems odd and somewhat counterintuitive as I know any other aid would be reduced, but I am sure I read that somewhere. That is something to ask in the FA section where Kelsmom or Nikkil (actual FA officers in real life) could answer for sure. </p>

<p>Actually I am thinking I probably misunderstood something but it still might be a good idea to get advice from Kelsom or Nikkil.</p>

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<p>^^^^</p>

<p>Ok…I will :)</p>

<p>Thanks a bunch!</p>

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<p>

</p>

<p>NO federal aid gets reduced by scholarship, unless the scholarship are sufficient to reduce the unmet need to less than the amount of federal aid.</p>

<p>Basically, an aid package is built on a foundation that starts with the federal aid, then is filled in by institutional aid. If the student gets outside scholarships, it is the institutional aid that in theory takes the first hit, but many colleges allow their students to apply the scholarships against their federal loan obligation first. That’s simply a way to help the student and encourage them to seek those scholarships.</p>

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<p>Yes, I meant that other need based aid can be reduced if Merit aid reduces the financial need to where the aid would exceed the remaining need. I should have been clearer (I knew what I meant :slight_smile: )</p>

<p>But according to some posts about the Pell it is not reduced if merit awards reduce the need to below the eligible Pell amount, but is purely based on the EFC. Seems surprising but kelsmom is a financial aid officer so I trust her opinion on this more than anyone elses, even my own ;).</p>

<p>from <a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/financial-aid-scholarships/647844-total-cost-attendance.html?highlight=Pell+Grant[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/financial-aid-scholarships/647844-total-cost-attendance.html?highlight=Pell+Grant&lt;/a&gt; post #3</p>

<p>

</p>

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<p>Hi everyone. I thank you for all your help, as I’m the topic of this thread. :slight_smile: I posted <a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/financial-aid-scholarships/806995-can-someone-help-me-figure-out-some-financial-stuff.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/financial-aid-scholarships/806995-can-someone-help-me-figure-out-some-financial-stuff.html&lt;/a&gt; this on the FA board, so if anyone can help, I’d appreciate it.</p>

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<p>Actually, Pell is the ONLY federal grant that will not be reduced even if aid exceeds COA. ACG, FSEOG, etc are reduced to keep aid at COA. If a student has scholarships that exceed the COA, Pell will still be awarded in full - not so with the other grants. Of course, some schools will give a “full ride” but will actually reduce the scholarship by the amount of the Pell - that would be stipulated in the scholarship agreement, though, if this is the case.</p>

<p>In the case of FSEOG & ACG/SMART, if the merit aid + need based aid exceed COA, the FSEOG would be decreased first, followed by the ACG/SMART. FIRST, though, loans & work study would be reduced (and institutional need based grants - although these might be reduced before FSEOG depending on school policy). I have had to reduce or eliminate ACG/SMART for some students … those are very lucky students, IMO, because they have scholarships that meet or exceed COA. In addition, some schools will reduce FSEOG to make room for ACG/SMART … we are doing equity packaging this year & we reduce instutional grants for ACG & SMART … and we have also had to reduce FSEOG in some cases when we add in ACG/SMART. The way equity packaging works: We award a combination of institutional money (grants & merit aid), Pell, FSEOG, ACG/SMART that - in combination with the EFC - adds up to a set number. If we have a student packaged at that number & then we award a SMART or ACG (these are usually added after initial packaging due to the gpa & high school class requirements that require manual monitoring), we will reduce grants & FSEOG to keep the total at that equity number.</p>

<p>Bottom line … Pell will not be reduced … EVER. Do keep in mind that Pell is paid out on a sliding scale that reduces the disbursement if the student takes less than 12 credits in a term. How other aid is impacted by Pell varies by school.</p>

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<p>Thanks kelsmom - I was hoping you would see this thread and chime in.</p>

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<p>Thank you, kelsmom. You, swimcatsmom, and sk8rmom have all helped me tremendously. I had read threads on here previously and there was some stipulation as to whether grants or loans were reduced first. I’m so glad in most cases it’s loans. I should get the highest or second-highest Pell next year (my EFC for 2008 was $88; this year we made less).</p>

<p>What exactly is the difference between COA and EFC? Is COA what the college determines you can pay, or just the COA of the school altogether?</p>

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<p>The COA is the cost of attendance of the school. It usually includes averaged amounts for tuition&fees/room&board/books/travel expenses/personal expenses. It is not the amount the school determines you individually can pay but is the same for everyone at that school (with some variations if a student is living on or off campus). But it is used along with the EFC to determine your financial need. The COA less the EFC = need, on which aid is based. </p>

<p>This does not necessarily mean the full need will be met. That depends on the school and their aid policies and whether they have their own institutional aid to award. For instance many state schools only award federal need based aid which is generally not enough to meet the full cost of a 4 year state university.</p>

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<p>For low income students, I find it especially challenging to explain how EFC works. It is true that need is not always met. Therefore, the fact that your EFC is 0 does not necessarily mean that you won’t have to pay anything … and even if a school does meet full need, there will most likely be loans involved in meeting that need.</p>

<p>Several state schools in my area have really stepped up need based aid this year. However, most of us simply cannot award enough need based aid to meet all expenses … therefore, my school is trying to meet the average cost of tuition through EFC + grants. Housing usually ends up requiring loans. A couple of our state schools are able to help the lowest income students with tuition and housing … but some low income students at these schools are not low enough income to be assisted to the degree they would like. It’s hard to spread a limited pool of money around with so many needy students.</p>

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<p>Okay, so let me make sure I have this. EFC of 0 =/= full need met. IUP meets about 83%. This is what the College Board says:
* Average percent of need met: 83%
* Average financial aid package: $10,135
* Average need-based loan: $3,779
* Average need-based scholarship or grant award: $5,285
* Average non-need based aid: $2,422
* Average indebtedness at graduation: $23,265</p>

<p>Some more q’s- sorry to bother everybody about this!</p>

<p>The need-based scholarship and grants-- are those allotted by the school, or those grants like the Pell Grant?</p>

<p>And, am I responsible for finding a way to pay for the other 17% if the 83% includes loans?</p>

<p>As you can probably tell, I’m a first-gen student. So I really appreciate all the parents helping me out because my own don’t have a clue!</p>

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<p>The percentages are a bit deceiving really. Some people may get more than 83%, some may get less. So don’t assume that you will get 83%. </p>

<p>One thing to do is try and apply to schools where your academic stats are high, well over the average for the school. That may make you eligible for merit scholarships which can make a vast difference. My daughter is at a large State U with a COA of around $20k. She has a full tuition scholarship and a cash scholarship (based on her ACT scores which are well above the average for the school) which makes it possible for federal aid to meet her remaining need with only a small amount in loans. Without the merit money I don’t think her need would be fully met even with the maximum in loans. With the merit money her remaining need is 100% met. The stats for her school say the average is 72% need met. </p>

<p>With a 0 EFC the federal aid you may be eligible for is (in 2009-2010 figures):
Grants:
Pell - $5350
ACG - $750 - must meet certain academic criteria and be Pell eligible. Currently the ACG is $750 for a freshman and $1300 for a sophomore but it is scheduled to disappear in the 2011-2012 school year.
SEOG - criteria is set by each school. At both my kids schools the criteria is 0 EFC and early FAFSA filing. While the federal maximum is $4000 schools are given a very limited amount of SEOG funding so they set their own maximums to try and reach as many needy students as they can. For my kids schools at one school the max is $200, at the other it is $2000.</p>

<p>Federal Loans:
Stafford: The maximum for a freshman is $5500 of which up to $3500 may be subsidized (meaning the govt pays the interest until you graduate or drop below half time, plus a 6 month grace period).
**Perkins:**Very hard to get. Schools have very limited amounts of Perkins funds to award. Some schools have no Perkins funds.</p>

<p>Work Study: need based - The max at my daughter’s school is $3400. You apply for a WS job and earn the money in a paycheck (hers have been paid every 2 weeks). Generally more useful for personal expenses as yo do not have the money in hand when the bills are due.</p>

<p>Other grants are:
TEACH grant - $4,000 - for teachers in certain subjects. You have to promise to work a certain # of years in underprivileged areas and if yo don’t the grant reverts to an unsubsidized loan back to the date it was disbursed.
SMART grant - $4,000. Requires PELL eligibility. Is for 3rd and 4th year students in certain majors - mostly science/math. But is scheduled, like the ACG, to go away in 2011-2012.</p>

<p>Other possibilities - some States have need based programs. Our state has a small, $1000, need based grant that requires an EFC <1700. Other states have programs also - usually for students of their state who stay instate.</p>

<p>If your need is not fully met then you are responsible for finding a way to pay for the balance. With a 0 EFC you should at the minimum be eligible for $5350 in PELL grants (may increase a little next year) and $5500 in Stafford loans. Hopefully you might also be eligible for some other federal aid such as SEOG, ACG, Perkins loans and possibly a State grant if you State has grants. If your stats are good you may also be eligible for merit money. Your school may or may not have their own need based grants - you would have to check with them.</p>

<p>There are also parent loans called PLUS loans. If a parent applies for and is turned down for a PLUS loan then the student is eligible for an additional $4000 in unsubsidized Stafford loans.</p>

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<p>swimcatsmom, that’s exactly what I’m doing right now. My SAT Critical Reading puts me in the top 1% of students who apply, Math 10%, and Writing 6%, so I’m hoping to get a lot of merit aid based off of that. My ACT score landed me the scholarship at Westminster, but just barely (you had to have a 29 and that’s what I had). I’m glad someone else had the mindset I did and had good results.</p>

<p>The PA State Grant can give me up to $3,300. :slight_smile: That’s a definite plus. </p>

<p>I’m nervous about taking out loans because I’ve seen it backfire on my parents, but I’m hoping I learned from their mistakes and can do this the responsible way.</p>